what Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 It appears mine is an injector as well.. we really need to make cylinder misfires a sticky somewhere. I just switched the no4 and no2 injectors and now I am getting a cylinder misfire for the number 2 cylinder.. I had to order a new injector cause aint nobody got one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qikslvr Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 I've was getting a cyl-4 misfire at times during the winter and just switched out to my new DW740cc injectors and the difference in smoothness of idle and acceloration is unbelievable. I haven't got the p0304 yet, but it's only been a few days. Mine would always pop the misfire in the morning when I dropped my kids off for school. I'd pull in, let them out and as soon as I started moving forward to leave the CEL and cruise pop. I've never felt it or heard it misfire, but apparently it did. The weird thing is that it happened at almost the exact same time and place each time in different weather usually weeks apart. Let's kick this pig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Mine you cant really feel anything at all sometimes, sometimes you can feel the car hesitating some. But with my after market exhaust, I can hear it easily. Especially at idle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 So I have a similar problem which I posted on this thread but maybe should have put here. Sounds like fuel injectors are the maybe the next thing to tackle? 1/22/13 Alright, folks. I've got a mystery to unravel on this topic... Just got a new clutch Friday cause my TOB was on its way out. On my way home from the shop, my check engine light came on so I took it back yesterday. The mechanic pulled the code and told me it's a misfire on #4, unrelated to the clutch job. I'm going to change my plugs tonight (sounds like fun, I'll be using the walk through on this forum. Thanks, Dookie!). I'll also run through some injector cleaner through but if that doesn't fix it, I'm thinking maybe a vac hose or something may have gotten disconnected during the clutch replacement? Does that sound possible? The other thing that happened is they replaced an axle while they were in there and got grease on the exhaust system, so it was smoking during their test drive. When I was sitting waiting to pick up the car they guys were spraying A LOT of brake cleaner or something up into the car from the bottom to get the grease off. Any chance they soaked one of the coil packs or something? Or are they totally weather-proof? Any thoughts as to how to approach this would be appreciated. My car's been out of commission for a week and I really just want to get back on the road with a TOB that's not about to fail and no check engine lights on. Right now I'm at $1,600 and I'm hoping I don't have to put too much more into this before I'm able to stop getting rides to work every day. 1/24/13 Update: So I changed the plugs Tuesday night (what a pain!) and swapped the coil packs from cylinders 1 & 4, figuring if it was a coil pack the misfire should move to #1. I also put Lucas fuel injector cleaner in the tank. The car ran okay during my ten minute test drive at 1am, but the check engine light came on again yesterday when I was driving from work to the gym (only about 1 mile) while the engine was still very cold (it's been in the teens here in Philadelphia for the past 5 or so days). I pulled the code and now I've got misfires on cylinders 2 & 4. It idles low and rough when I'm at a stop, but when I'm moving everything seems normal, so far as I can tell. I'm taking it back to the transmission guy today and asking him to take another look to make sure everything got hooked back up properly when they put the new clutch in last week. If they don't find anything, I'll be out of ideas, except to take it to the dealer and throw myself at their mercy. Unless any of you have ideas. I would think if I had a valve or fuel injector problem, I wouldn't suddenly have 2 cylinders misfiring now. The transmission guy suggested that it sometimes takes a while for Subarus to readjust to the proper fuel mixture after having the battery disconnected. But it seems to me that a rough idle is one thing--multiple cylinders misfiring is another. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Have you replaced the o-rings at the intake manifold to TVG's yet ? They will give you a rough idle when it's cold. The o-rings are about $20.00 at the dealership. When you see the old ones you'll understand the issue. Oh for the record. #1 and #3 are the passenger side cylinders. #1 is the front one. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Thanks, Max Capacity. No, I haven't replaced the o-rings, I'll look into that. My understanding on the cylinder #s is 1-Passenger Front, 2-DF, 3-PR, 4-DR. That's the assumption I've been operating on. So I switched the coil packs between 4 and 1. Still have a misfire on 4 and still don't on 1, so that rules out the coil packs, I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Yes that would rule that out. I had the same issues in Feb 2011 just before the read diff went out. While the wagon was on jacks for 5 months I replaced the o-rings. I have never had a miss-fire issue since. I have done a ton of work on the car in the past 2 years. I have replaced both O2 sensors and cleaned the MAF sensor a couple of times. Still have OEM coils packs and injectors. Knock on wood the car runs great. OH yea the old o-rings may be persent on the early 08's too. CT08Spec.B just had his replaced a week ago. The 09's have the larger orange o-rings, and the gasket kit for a engine rebuild comes with them. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 So I'm looking in the "vacation pics" for a diagram that would show the TGV o-rings but not finding them. I'm not the most experienced amateur mechanic, so I may need a little help here. I'm not familiar with the Tumbler Generator Valve or just where to find it. But replacing the o-rings is definitely something I'm up for trying. Any chance you have a part number for the o-rings? Would the TGVs be the same as the solenoid valves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 If you view my thread, http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/got-some-new-stuff-engine-r-r-184106.html You'll see pictures of my rebuild. I did not remove the TGV's from the bottom of the intake. I left them attached when I removed the intake. When I did replace them I left the intake on the engine in the car may 2011. Just disconected what I needed to to raise either side of the intake enough to R&R the o rings. It took a couple of hours but seems to have worked. If you call the parts guy at the dealership I'm sure he'll get you the right part. He may even know of them. There is also a sticky at the very top of the very first forum, News and Rumors that you can find the parts breakdown. It may a few trys but everything is pictured there. http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/subaru-oem-parts-catalog-online-exploded-views-opposed-forces-130411.html 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 I think we're talking about part#33 in this diagram, right? "Intake Manifold Gasket." Am I correct? http://www.trademotion.com/schematics/7/7523245.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted January 25, 2013 Share Posted January 25, 2013 Yes #33 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Well, today I swapped my fuel injectors for cylinders 1&4 and got a number 4 misfire on my test drive afterwards. My mechanic cousin tells me I can spray carb cleaner around the base of the intake manifold outlets and if there's a bad o-ring the vacuum leak should suck it in and engine should surge. So I'll try that next. If those o-rings aren't the problem I guess it's something much more serious, like a valve issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Just sprayed the carb cleaner. No surge... What do you think? Time to throw myself at the mercy of the dealer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Well, today I swapped my fuel injectors for cylinders 1&4 and got a number 4 misfire on my test drive afterwards. My mechanic cousin tells me I can spray carb cleaner around the base of the intake manifold outlets and if there's a bad o-ring the vacuum leak should suck it in and engine should surge. So I'll try that next. If those o-rings aren't the problem I guess it's something much more serious, like a valve issue. How did your injectors look like? Did they look like this one? ---> http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4264178&postcount=16 I've had a couple misfire CEL on #4 as well and fairly crappy cold idle as well. Instead of swapping injectors, I just went ahead and changed the injector altogether with a brand new OEM one. So far, no CEL but I've just done about 70-80 miles so far of mixed driving. But yeah, if it's neither the O-rings on the manifold, nor the injector, spark plugs or coil, then compression test is in order . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Yes, my injectors looked more or less like the one in that photo--both #1 and #4. But after swapping I got a misfire again on cylinder 4, it didn't move to #1. I am running Lucas injector cleaner through with this tank of gas. Interestingly enough, my cousin looked at the car yesterday and reset the codes and my CEL hasn't come back on since. I've driven 20 miles or so of around-town driving in four trips, with my engine cooling all the way down in between. The car seems to be running fine. Go figure. What if all of my injectors were kind of gunked up and my car just needed time to run the injector cleaner through? I've barely driven it for the past two weeks except for from the shop to my place and diagnostic test drives. Or is this just the wishful thinking of a man who really doesn't want to have a valve issue (or worse)? I have an appointment Wednesday at the dealer for a compression and leak down test. Hopefully the results will rule out a valve or ringland problem and I'll be able to go on my merry way and know that if the problem comes back it's not a major mechanical failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I see. I've just read stories on here where they've swapped injectors, still got misfire in the same cylinder. Then after they've put a brand new injector, no more CEL . Does not always work this way though.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I see. I've just read stories on here where they've swapped injectors, still got misfire in the same cylinder. Then after they've put a brand new injector, no more CEL . Does not always work this way though.. I don't recall seeing that, but that would be great. Any examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 That'll be tough . Maybe I should not have said "I've just read stories", but instead should have said "I've read a couple stories". It could come from that thread but I just can't remember. I've browsed so many threads lately on injectors on this forum. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 injectors are electrical too, ya know. so an injector can be clean and still faulty. my friend has an 05 wagon gt and misfired only at idle, not while driving, bought a new injector and it was fine. Does your friend live in Europe as well? sorry to hijack. Just curious cause there are very few GTs in Europe.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I'm taking my car to the dealer this afternoon, but it's been running well for the past couple days. No CEL since it was reset Sunday, though I do have a pending P0304 that comes back when I clear it. The only time I notice anything amiss is when I come to a sudden stop and push in the clutch. Then the RPM drops too low (to maybe 300) and the car shudders for a nanosecond before stabilizing around 750. We'll see what happens with the compression and cylinder leak down tests at the dealer. On the upside, I just put my wife's W-2 into Turbotax last night and the amount I owe Uncle Sam went from $544 to $251. So I'm trying to think of this trip to the dealer as free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I'm taking my car to the dealer this afternoon, but it's been running well for the past couple days. No CEL since it was reset Sunday, though I do have a pending P0304 that comes back when I clear it. The only time I notice anything amiss is when I come to a sudden stop and push in the clutch. Then the RPM drops too low (to maybe 300) and the car shudders for a nanosecond before stabilizing around 750. We'll see what happens with the compression and cylinder leak down tests at Fred Beans. On the upside, I just put my wife's W-2 into Turbotax last night and the amount I owe Uncle Sam went from $544 to $251. So I'm trying to think of this trip to the dealer as free. Good luck man. Let us know how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 If it makes you feel any better, mine popped up again at barely semi warm while idling today . So I know it is not an injector issue. I (surely) hope it's those intake manifold gaskets . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltasierrahotel Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Well, I just got back from the dealer. Cylinder 4 was low at first pump -- 30 psi, then 123 on the second try. Leak down test indicates a 5% loss. So I guess this means at best I have a burnt valve and as worst a bad ringland. Really frustrating. It's ridiculous that so many of these cars have major engine problems so early, even with no mods. Shame on Subaru--I thought I paid for quality. Now I owe more money on my car than it's worth. I put a new clutch and axle in at $1,600 two weeks ago. I just paid the dealer $250 to confirm my worst fears. Now I need to throw another chunk of money just to get back to normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xt2005bonbon Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Shame on subaru? Shame on you for not understanding your results and jumping to conclusions and blame the quality of subaru parts. If it's hitting 123psi it's fine, typically higher mileage EJ255/7 will be 120psi+, it's the change between the cylinders is what's important. Secondly, the fact that you only have 5% leakdown loss on that cylinder leads me to believe you in fact have 123psi or better in that cylinder. A greater than 10-15% loss is a problem, if you had a burnt valve, you'd have CERTAINLY more than 5%. This is stated in multiple areas on this forum. Go easy on him man . He is just frustrated and venting a bit. I am sure he loves his car . I am misfiring on the same cylinder as well, as we speak; and I still love my car. Weird huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Well, at least the new gasket kit will have the new orange o-rings for the intake to TGV's. You'll also want to get the car Tuned. It's now common knowledge that the factory map has a flaw that can cause burnt valves. It's still there in the 5th gen's too. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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