wnstn Posted January 8, 2008 Author Share Posted January 8, 2008 Yes, you're shifting too soon. You're turbo is barely doing anything below 3K RPM. Turbos need time to spool up, and for the Legacy GT/Spec-B, that doesn't really happen until 2.5K-3K. And the redline fuel cut-off is there to prevent engine damage from over-revving. You'll be fine. And that noise you hear when the engine spins past 3K? That's the fun part. Prior to that, you're basically driving a turbo-less 4 cylinder economy car. You've probably been getting great gas mileage, though! Try this, preferably at a straight on-ramp to an uncrowded highway. Wind it out to 4.5K or so, and you'll feel the turbo coming in. The car just pulls harder. You'll see what I mean. Lol yeah - I've pushed my car a few times and when my neck snaps back ... I get that "ho-leeeee sheeeeeet VTEC JUST KICKED IN YO'" feeling that honda owners get. As for gas mileage um.. I think I'm averaging 12.4 Litres (in kilometres) - mainly because the car doesn't get much highway mileage. Once thing I realized though is when I shift early, I have to gas it a lot of to get any kind of acceleration (again noobie error I presume) - and poor gas mileage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Just curious - For those who know, does a decatted up-pipe and decatted or high flow downpipe lower the boost threshold significantly when used with an AP Stage 2? I'm wondering if boost starts to come on strong at 2000-2200 vs 3000 stock. I'm all about expanding the powerband, not necessarily max power. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoWagon Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Soo if you never practice launch of shifting hard, how will you ever get good at it, and if you never launch your AWD car, what is the point in have a fast car. Hes been driving the car for 5 months, it took my 1 month until i was launch the shit outta my first stick car. After 5 months you need to know how to launch your car. Shifting hard is how you blow trannys my friend. OP: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=587096 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sickdrift Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 People are keeping their rpm's below 3,000... how are they doing that? I just bought my spec and I'm having a super tough time keeping the rev's low during the break-in period. The reason Subaru provided us with 6 speeds if to help the driver get more use out of the powerband, the powerband being where the turbo kicks in (roughly 2500 rpm?) and where the power starts dropping off (Hopefully I find this place after break in). Don't be skerd to play aorund with it. However, any real performance driver will tell you nothing is ever forced, but everything from your driving lines, to how you shift your car should be smooth transitions. Practice shiffting smoothly, seamlessly, but shoot for as little clutch time as possible. Our cars arent drag cars (fortunately), they're more like rally and roadracing cars. Have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Shfiting hard is also how you get your best times my friend, why does subaru have a tranny in these cars that can take hard shifts. Thats just retarded, i beat the hell out of my T-56 with alot more horsepower and that was still in perfect shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sickdrift Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Shfiting hard is also how you get your best times my friend, why does subaru have a tranny in these cars that can take hard shifts. Thats just retarded, i beat the hell out of my T-56 with alot more horsepower and that was still in perfect shape. Best times in what type of racing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Drag racing is what i was talking about when i said hard shifts, besides if your gonna spend the extra money for a spec b why not give it a transmisson that can take abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 "Thats just retarded, i beat the hell out of my T-56 with alot more horsepower and that was still in perfect shape." I flag this statement as proof of a lack of knowledge in the shifting arena Could it be that your T-56 was built to handle alot more horsepower and abuse, and, in fact, was not on an AWD vehicle which therefore allowed the overload of power to be distributed through spinning tires instead of differentials taking the brunt? Learning how to shift well has nothing to do with flat-shifting or launching. Those are techniques used in very specific situations that have little to do with everyday driving (or everyday drivers). Learning how to shift well means learning your engine/transmission/clutch/shifter interface and how to extract the most out of it while minimizing drivetrain shock and clutch wear. The OP didn't post a question asking how to cut his 60 foot time down, or decrease in 1/8 times, or how to beat a mustang at a light. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Thats my exact point, why if you fools are gonna pay out the ass for a Spec B would the transmisson not be able to handle some abuse. They put a 6 speed in a AWD car and dont expect people to launch with it or slam gears. So if you were to race someone you always remember not to go all out you just shift like normal. If so your a puss, the only + these cars have in a straight line is the turbo and the ability to launch like a bat outta hell. Yes there are all types of performance driving, but when some kid pulls up next to me at a light reving his car i like to race. Guess this is the wrong car for that lol My T-56 was bone stock, as for the spinning tires thing i ran drag radials so i would do 4500rpm launchs with barley any spinning. Subaru just cant build trannys i guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Actually, relative to the non-spec.B LGT, the suspension, VDC, Torsen rear, and 6-speed are all more directed towards driving twisty roads or a road course, rather than straight line racing. AWD is rather handy on turns... To the OP, hold 1st until I straighten out. I'm not a fan of 1st gear, so I only really use it to start from a full stop. I generally don't like 1st very much. The gear is so short, the effective speed range is very narrow. I'd rather drop rpms in 2nd a bit than downshift all the way down to 1st. 2nd is a very versatile gear, especially on the 6 speed, so I use it as much as possible. Some buddies and I were talking about this exact topic today. The guy with a Mustang Cobra has a 1st gear he can hold until 43 mph. When you have 400 ft-lbs of torque available way down low, you can get away with a relatively tall 1st gear. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecBee Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 wnstn Quote: Originally Posted by SpecBee http://legacygt.com/forums/skynetim/buttons/viewpost.gif This 6 sp in the B is from the STI. I think they took out some of the syncros from the STI version but it is still designed to be speed shifted and maybe has syncros for 1 thru 3 dunno. Anyway this is my first 6 sp and find that 1st is short and I usually shift into 2nd ASAP.... This car has enough TQ to start from 2nd on a creaping start or down hill... I had a 80 colt with a 4sp for about 6 months before I wrecked it that could scoot for a 4banger no turbo:( Hey Spec - I noticed that first is pretty short too, but when do you shift into 2nd? Usually as soon as i'm moving....2K? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Actually, relative to the non-spec.B LGT, the suspension, VDC, Torsen rear, and 6-speed are all more directed towards driving twisty roads or a road course, rather than straight line racing. AWD is rather handy on turns... To the OP, hold 1st until I straighten out. I'm not a fan of 1st gear, so I only really use it to start from a full stop. I generally don't like 1st very much. The gear is so short, the effective speed range is very narrow. I'd rather drop rpms in 2nd a bit than downshift all the way down to 1st. 2nd is a very versatile gear, especially on the 6 speed, so I use it as much as possible. Some buddies and I were talking about this exact topic today. The guy with a Mustang Cobra has a 1st gear he can hold until 43 mph. When you have 400 ft-lbs of torque available way down low, you can get away with a relatively tall 1st gear. I think my ls1 was about 40 or so when i shifted into second, but im mean i could hit 160 in 5th which is the speed limiter and still ahve all of 6th left to go, 6th was purely a freeway gear in Trans Ams and cobras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeFromPA Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 05GTGuru - I'm beginning to see you have a one track mind on this subject. You put drag radials on a daily driver? The Spec.B. trans can handle abuse, sure, but for how long? Your stock T-56 was probably (I don't know off-hand) a solid rear axle design....much like the 05+ Mustang GTs. Great for drag racing, not so good for handling purposes. In other words, in order to build a car (at these price points) to handle alot of launching, the manufacturer tends to build a sturdy design that sacrifices other aspects...like a smooth ride, or good handling. In the case of the Spec.B....the car is geared not towards drag racing (if so, it would have a shorter final drive ratio to help put it in the powerband sooner), but towards a more dynamic racing environment. Furthermore, these cars are daily drivers for people. Much like anything, the more abuse you give it the shorter the life expectancy is. The clutch is already known to be a weak point (as opposed to something worse)...maybe 75k is a reasonable life under daily driven conditions. Does a daily driver want to shorten that to 40k by launching the car hard every other day? Furthermore, you made a statement , "So if you were to race someone you always remember not to go all out you just shift like normal. " A modern syncro'd transmission can take some seriously fast shifting, much like this one can. Simply practicing fast shifting can get you within .05 to .1 seconds of a quarter mile race down with flat-shifting. Flat-shifting is one of the harshest techniques to use on a street car. Because you are rolling and coming out of gear, the rev limiter cannot engage. Therefore, you can overrev your engine well beyond it's capabilities. The clutch/drivetrain comes into contact with an engine spinning substantially faster, and already under load, dramatically increasing the stress placed on the components. And for what? An extra .05 seconds in a street race? These cars can hit about 100mph in the quarter mile. Are you racing that fast on the street? I don't. I go up to about 75, at the most and under the best conditions. Flatshifting in those conditions gains you even less. When I'm racing someone, I shift "normally". Shift at the best point on the powerband as fast as possible, get on gas as soon as possible. Lastly, you said "Yes there are all types of performance driving, but when some kid pulls up next to me at a light reving his car i like to race. Guess this is the wrong car for that lol" As I stated, yes, this is the wrong car for that. Take it to the drag strip. Or buy a car designed for the fastest straight line driving. How long did you have your LS1 for? How many miles? How often did you launch it on the street with drag radials? Drag radials on a street car with frequent launches is either one of the stupider things I've read, or just a really expensive hobby. Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 The only thing that really couldnt handle the launchs was the rear end, the 10 bolt is the known weak point of those cars. As far as Drag radials on a DD, i never said i would do that, it was just stated that the reason my trans held up so well was becuase the wheels would spin unlike on a AWD car. I was just saying they didnt. Drag radials on a car like that isnt too expensive as long as you have a good rear end, the T-56 is a proven 500-600rwhp trans with just a upgraded clutch. My supra is IRS with drag radials and that trans has handled over 200(just a guess) launches on the street and about 8 launchs at the track with 347rwhp and 1 launch at the track at 517rwhp because i dont have a roll cage i couldnt run the car anymore. Maybe im just lucky, I know these cars arent made for straight line racing, but alot of people use them for that and no when street racing i usually dont go above 110, i have never had this legacy up to 100 yet. But if my legacy was stick, i would like to atleast know i can launch and not have to worry about the tranny. I put 20k miles on my trans am in 2 summers, alot was racing, my 96 formula i put over 70k on racing all over houston, dallas, Wisconsin and everywhere in between, Yes i would reduce the clutch life of my car for launches. Why else have a fast car if you wont use it. You can say what you want but drag radials are street legal, thats why i use them instead of slicks. So technically drag radials are street tires thats what they were make for the grip of slicks but yet street legal so i dont see why you say drag radials on a street car thats stupid when thats kinda what they were designed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnstn Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 Hey everyone, I've read all the replies - thanks for the input and resources (from nasoic - that was pretty useful). As for shifting into 2nd.. I always get this "thump" feeling when letting go of the clutch, am I to keep the rpms up then let out of the clutch? or clutch out, reach engagement then gas? I keep worrying that I'll wear out the clutch by "slipping" it. Again, thanks for everyone's feedback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 spec does not stand for special. Good luck driving. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heh2k Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I keep worrying that I'll wear out the clutch by "slipping" it. It's suppose to slip. Wear on a clutch is cheaper than shock loading a trans and engine. As long as you don't overheat the clutch (eg, launching at high rpm while slipping the clutch) it should last a long time. If you smell it, you're being too rough. Also, don't inch forward in stop-and-go traffic over and over again (wastes gas, anyway). Unless you do stop-and-go everyday, it should last 70k+ miles. I usually shift about 3000-3500 rpm and use maybe 50% throttle in S mode, to save gas. Wide-open throttle at lowish-rpm is (generally) more efficient than partial throttle at high rpm - less pumping and valve train loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f1anatic Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Wow...just shift 2000-2500 and you will be amazed at the gas mileage you can have in the turbo Legacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnstn Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 spec does not stand for special. Good luck driving. What?! Are you serious?! /joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HangKen Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Yea I could kinda understand where he is coming from beacuse the engine rumbles a lot in the high rpm. It makes you think you want to shift sorta. Coming from Hondas with 8,300 redline, it feels very odd to be shifting around 3,000 for mellow drive but I guess you have enough torque with Subaru. For turning, If I stop, I usually put it in first and complete the turn, I shift about 4K. On a rolling turn, I just usually keep it in 2nd and let it pick up the rpm (Considering, I am not racing or anything). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edkwon Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 repeat quote, mods please delete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edkwon Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Thats my exact point, why if you fools are gonna pay out the ass for a Spec B would the transmisson not be able to handle some abuse. They put a 6 speed in a AWD car and dont expect people to launch with it or slam gears. So if you were to race someone you always remember not to go all out you just shift like normal. If so your a puss, the only + these cars have in a straight line is the turbo and the ability to launch like a bat outta hell. Yes there are all types of performance driving, but when some kid pulls up next to me at a light reving his car i like to race. Guess this is the wrong car for that lol My T-56 was bone stock, as for the spinning tires thing i ran drag radials so i would do 4500rpm launchs with barley any spinning. Subaru just cant build trannys i guess Why are you applying an F body/drag racing philosophy to a subaru driving crowd, its not like any of any of us go to an F body forums and compalin how Trans Ams and Camaros make lousy rally cars and how their owners have no idea how to do drift hairpins in the dirt and snow. I suspect youre doing it to just to make yourself heard and answer the question nobody asked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
05GT Guru Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 No this all started because i was stating that with the spec b he needed to learn how to launch the car, then someone said thats how your tranny blows, and i said well if your gonna pay the extra for a spec b and get the 6 speed why is it so weak. And the conversation went from there. No shit F-bodys make bad rally cars, we were comparing trannys and launchs not the cars and what they are good for. I didnt need snow to drift my f-bodys, they could do it in any condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
korpsepatrol Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 spec does not stand for special. Good luck driving. SINCE WHEN! 2008 6mt Legacy Gt Spec B DGM - Not so Stock/Work in progress 2006 5mt Legacy Gt OBP - Sold 2005 5eat Legacy Gt OBP - RIP R.I.P Coxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator GT Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 SINCE WHEN! Since ever. Spec stands for specification. Kind of like Type in Type-R or S-Type. It wouldn't be Special-B as in Special Bilstein. You're double talking.....Bilsteins are already special...no need to call something special, special. ...besides, that just sounds retarded. Special B. Why don't I wear a friggin' beanie and a bowtie while I'm at it?! SpecB stands for Specification Bilstein because it is a higher level of suspension and road handling capability. "If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed." - T. Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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