USDM and JDM bumper. How different are they..?

[tallguylehigh]

Well the question obviously is this: Will the JDM spec bumpers fit on the car legally here in the US, or by switching the bumpers will you make the car insurance Gods mad at you? If you can fit the JDM bumpers, its just a matter of getting the JDM bumpers, enough said.

[GBY]

[quote name='racerdave'][quote name='Ridgeracer'] On that note, anyone notice how much more car we are getting over any Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Acura, Audi in this price range? [/quote] That's the key for me. The car -- on paper -- seems like it's way more car for a lot less $$ than the other finalist on my list -- the 325iT. Now, I think the 325iT looks a lot better -- it's gorgeous in my eyes. [img]http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/88E02882-137F-46D7-9D42-4E9CE605D7E3/0/0435_01.jpg[/img] It's also rear drive, which is not a true comparison, but my new-car criteria are 1) that it has to be rear *or* all-wheel drive. I'm sick of FWD. 2) have a manual transmission. 3) have outstanding handling and reflexes. The BMW has those things. It's a great car. It's just the Subaru promises to be more powerful, a bit roomier, have more standard features and cost a lot less. In short, the Legacy GT wagon is going to have to suck pretty bad when I test drive it for it not to win. :)[/quote] I almost bought a 325ixt a few years back, went with Volvo instead - big mistake in hindsight. Anyway, the 325 wagon is quite small, almost identical in size to the WRX Wagon but I like and it's definately the BMW I'd buy if I was to get a bimmer.

[gtguy]

[quote name='flat4fantasy']And not to flame on you GTGuy, but your slippery slope of logic is just that...I think a lot of non-Jews during Hitler's reign said, "Well that's just the way it is". I am not comparing the two, just an analogy, while an extreme one at that. Sure sometimes one has to accept what is "here and now" but it's always up to an individual to "change things." Peace, dave[/quote] But it isn't a slippery slope at all, nor is it an exercise in logic. In the case of the USDM bumpers, things are as they are. You can't legally change the bumpers. If you hit anything with the "wrong" bumpers, the insurance gods, as they were referred to above, will be mighty displeased. I'll stay far, far away from any analogies, as I don't think they are necessary for understanding the situation as it stands. You can change wheels, tires, swaybars, etc, and be fine. But bumpers are, as I understand them, government-regulated safety equipment. Hence my comment, "they are as they are." Anyone who wants to risk that, can certainly do so. And unfortunately (for them) the bumpers are a deal-breaker for some people, something I will never understand. Then again, I don't get the orange sidemarker aversion, either. Those 3-series wagons are indeed lookers, as are the 5-series wagons. But there's no AWD option with the 5-series cars. Kevin

[PPower]

[quote name='flat4fantasy']I think the bumpers, while they far from "ruin" the car, they take away something. The original car's design hit the nail on the head first time around (i.e. JDM spec bumpers) and that is the way the car was "designed" to look by Subaru and it is evident. I seriously doubt it is a "deal breaker" for anyone. But I appreciate PPower's post. Because it is something that I was disappointed at but I'll do what I need to do and what I like to the car to remedy my opinion of the bumper. And not to flame on you GTGuy, but your slippery slope of logic is just that...I think a lot of non-Jews during Hitler's reign said, "Well that's just the way it is". I am not comparing the two, just an analogy, while an extreme one at that. Sure sometimes one has to accept what is "here and now" but it's always up to an individual to "change things." PPower, what do you know about the 'longer' brackets that hold (is that also reinforce?) the bumper. Are the similiar to how trucks have side fender brackets? I wonder how relatively easy (or hard) it would be to swap out? Peace, dave[/quote] Glad it was of help to notice the differences. I don't know what all the differences will be between the underpinnings of both bumpers. I imagine that there are different brackets that stick the US bumper out further. With the Impreza, the current bumper covers seem to protrude the same amount in all countries, but the US bumper is now thicker vertically as I recall. In the US, we are more concerned with front impact with large solid impacts. In other more pedestrian friendly countries, a shorter bumper provides a flatter surface to not do as much damage to a person should a car hit one. Look at that euro BMW wagon and notice how short their bumper is. If you're traveling at highway speeds and crash, the extra bumper isn't going to do much to save you. At that point, I believe that the rest of the structure of the car plays a greater role. For the US, the thicker bumper is to reduce damage on lower speed impacts to that you hopefully don't have to replace the hood and fenders as well. As much as I prefer the lines of the non-US versions, I don't think I would ever do the full switch. My car I had in Costa Rica was a '95 Peugeot 106 Rallye with obviously, short bumpers. Man, did it look cool as a stubby little hatchback. The downside is that bumper and everything else got damaged just by looking at it! The more fragile bumper caused a tiny bump to affect the radiator, headlamps and hood. It's not an entirely fair comparison as the safety standards were surely lower back then, but it was demonstrative to me of the tradeoffs. I would consider getting a different bumper cover from a body kit or trying to flush out the fog area as I said before. I don't think that an insurance company would clue in that you made a swap, but I just think that having more fragile bumpers is more nerveracking than the different appearance. So I guess I'm admonishing you to keep your US bumper beam and just think of ways to work around them if the bumper is something you want to put money into instead of wheels or other things. Don't mind Kevin. He's just against anything other than mild suspension and brakes. :D

[gtguy]

[quote name='PPower']Don't mind Kevin. He's just against anything other than mild suspension and brakes. :D[/quote] Nonsense. Just as at NASIOC, there is a lack of comprehension regarding my posts. So, once again, as plainly as I can state it: What I am against is whining about that which is, such as the USDM bumpers. They are as they are. Why complain any longer? It's illogical, and I confess to having a bias against lack of logic. The fact that people can find like-minded souls that fancy grousing about reality doesn't make it any more logical. It's like complaining because the car has a 2.5-liter four cylinder motor. It is what it is. That is my sole point. I don't care what anybody does to their car. That's not my style. Yes, I believe that a good driver, properly trained is the best mod, but that works for me. People can go for 400 horsepower, install JDM bumpers or run around with no bumpers, for all I care. They can reflash their reflashes, put flames on their cars, lower them 3", install sequential boost controllers...party on. Kevin

[Sub-attraction]

How about we open a new thread entilted "Private Battles"

[SUBE555]

Isn't vaporware great! :P Most of us haven't seen it in person (which I might add puts an entirely different spin on things), driven it, but we've all got our reservations already. I'll admit I've got an idea as well, but I'm trying to stay a bit open. Lets just chill everyone. :cool:

[brady_bunch]

:postwhor: Just wanted to keep this topic going. Anyone successfully installed the JDM bumpers on the USDM model yet? :D

[thatericguy]

i dont even think there is a BP jdm legacy bumper in the states. although i wish one of you would prove me wrong. i did inquire japanparts on the front bumper of a spec b and the beam for it and it came out to be around 450 USD...but as most of you know its the shipping that kills...and that came out to be nearly 600 USD. So, the ONLY way most of us could even get these bumpers here are through some sort of group buy. I say you guys start hounding the vendors (i emailed gruppe-s, havent heard back tho). On another note, a positive in keeping the bumpers stubby...is that you gain about 5 inches total for front and rear bumper swap...and that will help you parallel a teeny bit better. i know im reaching pretty far...but just to throw in a positive point. :D

[SC GT]

[quote name='brady_bunch']:postwhor: Just wanted to keep this topic going. Anyone successfully installed the JDM bumpers on the USDM model yet? :D[/quote] I thought you just got nostalgic for gtguy at his crankiest.

[bemani]

Any difference on the wagon rear bumpers?

[MSB]

Any difference on the wagon rear bumpers?

 

The US rear looks a little bigger than the Japanese one - Now where have I heard that before?

[bemani]

Hmm, I may actually like my rear bumper more, since the length makes it more useful :)

[Th3Franz]

"Look at that b!tch with that trunk, bouncin that butt.. yeah, yeah.." - some rap song Couldn't resist. :P That is quite the difference between the two.. :o

[coolbluelb]

I have some experience with this, as I have worked with auto insurance claims for many years, and this is my take on the bumper differences (keep in mind this is an hypothesis, not based on empirical data). I highly doubt that the sub-structure and frame of the USDM varies from the JDM. AU tests have demonstrated how safe the JDM version is, and extending the bumper by 1-2 inches would not affect safety in the cabin by any margin. It seems clear to me that the USDM extended bumpers serve one purpose, and give us a clearer picture of Subaru's goals in the US. The only area where this change will make an affect, is a low impact (5 mph) test. When compared with some other makes/models, the Legacy will have lower repair costs in this situation. This, combined with the high safety rating of the car, will make it a top choice of anyone who researches such things. It will further allow Subaru to advertise favorable insurance testing results for the car (much like they currently do with the Forester). Subaru's future is to make themselves into sporty Volvos :D . One last point. The insurance gods (as we have so elequantly been deemed), probably would not notice, or care to any degree about changing the bumper. As mentioned, there is likely little structural difference under the USDM version, and in the event of an accident, an adjuster may not even notice the difference (keep in mind that ricers regularly place different front clips on their cars). The thing to keep in mind is this: if you do have an accident with a JDM front bumper, your insurance will only pay to replace it with a USDM version. That should be the only downside...

[Steve D]

[quote name='coolbluelb']Having said this, we would all [b]clearly[/b] rather have the USDM engine over the 2.0 JDM. [/quote] Not all of us :) I'd rather have the twinscroll 2.0. But the additional low-end torque of the 2.5 will be nice around town.

[coolbluelb]

[quote name='Steve D'][quote name='coolbluelb']Having said this, we would all [b]clearly[/b] rather have the USDM engine over the 2.0 JDM. [/quote] Not all of us :) I'd rather have the twinscroll 2.0. But the additional low-end torque of the 2.5 will be nice around town.[/quote] Noted... Everyone but you would rather have the USDM engine over the JDM.

[IwannaSportSedan]

[quote name='Steve D']Not all of us :) I'd rather have the twinscroll 2.0. But the additional low-end torque of the 2.5 will be nice around town.[/quote] Sorry for the quick foray off topic... Just a quick off-topic question... This twin-scroll that I keep hearing pop up, is that some sort of a dual-vane-pattern turbo setup? A quick answer or direction to a thread or link would be very welcome.

[Euclid]

Since it seems there are no real comparisons of the jdm vs usdm cars from the exact same angle, I found these.. it's close enough to really get an idea. [img]http://legacysti.com/files/05_legacy.jpg[/img] [img]http://celicaman.f0e.net/albums/legacy/DSCN2504sm.sized.jpg[/img]

[coolbluelb]

Yep, definately don't like the wing...

[brady_bunch]

[quote name='coolbluelb']The thing to keep in mind is this: if you do have an accident with a JDM front bumper, your insurance will only pay to replace it with a USDM version. That should be the only downside...[/quote] I would challenge that decision if it came down to it. The purpose of insurance is to "indemnify" the person that was damaged. If I had a JDM bumper on the car, indemnifying me would be replacing it with a JDM bumper. If I put a brush guard on the car (hypothetically speaking... I would NEVER do such a thing to such an elegant car), wouldn't insurance cover the repair or replacement of the brush guard? It's not part of the USDM spec vehicle but it would still get replaced, right?

[MSB]

[quote name='brady_bunch']I would challenge that decision if it came down to it. The purpose of insurance is to "indemnify" the person that was damaged. If I had a JDM bumper on the car, indemnifying me would be replacing it with a JDM bumper. If I put a brush guard on the car (hypothetically speaking... I would NEVER do such a thing to such an elegant car), wouldn't insurance cover the repair or replacement of the brush guard? It's not part of the USDM spec vehicle but it would still get replaced, right?[/quote] Wouldn't you have to inform your insurer of the 'mod' and then open the whole can of worms that would follow, in order to get like for like after the bump?

[CombatCQB]

I'm sure if you tell the insurance that the front bumper has been changed and then jump on one leg then the other when they tell you to, they'll cover the mod at an additional cost.

[coolbluelb]

[quote name='brady_bunch'][quote name='coolbluelb']The thing to keep in mind is this: if you do have an accident with a JDM front bumper, your insurance will only pay to replace it with a USDM version. That should be the only downside...[/quote] I would challenge that decision if it came down to it. The purpose of insurance is to "indemnify" the person that was damaged. If I had a JDM bumper on the car, indemnifying me would be replacing it with a JDM bumper. If I put a brush guard on the car (hypothetically speaking... I would NEVER do such a thing to such an elegant car), wouldn't insurance cover the repair or replacement of the brush guard? It's not part of the USDM spec vehicle but it would still get replaced, right?[/quote] Your insurance company essentially covers the car as it was from the factory. Any after-market modifications would require an endorsement (and additional premium) to the policy. This would apply to [b]any[/b] change to the car, including wheels, stereo, bumper. In the case of a stolen stereo, your insurance would indemnify you by providing you with a stock unit as replacement, not by replacing a $2000.00 after-market system they were not aware you had. The same would be true of the bumper. Again, individuals regularly change the front clip of their vehicles to achieve an after-market look. In most cases, I doubt that informing your insurance you had done this, would have any adverse affect on your coverage.

[brady_bunch]

A bit of info on the installation of JDM bumpers... it is definitely [b]not [/b]just a bumper cover replacement. I was digging around the front end of the car (trying to figure out how to get the grill off to replace it when I finally get a new grill) and realized that the license plate was screwed into the bumper beam (OK... this may be a "DUH" moment but it was news to me) which means that it goes all the way from just in front of the radiator to the edge of the bumper cover. If you want to, check underneath the bumper and you can see the beam protruding a bit beyond the bumper cover towards the radiator. There does not seem to be a foam piece between the bumper cover and bumper beam like in some cars. That means to get the JDM look we will need to get the JDM bumper cover [b]and [/b]bumper beam.