Ridgeracer Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 I still don't see it guys. What are the major differences between the JDM and the USDM bumpers? Is it the lower lip? Someone please post both to make it easier to point out the differences. "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Original JDM pic: [img]http://www.subdriven.com/gallerytk/generated/Automobiles/Legacy/2004/040__scaled_600.jpg[/img] USDM pic: [img]http://www.subdriven.com/gallerytk/generated/Automobiles/Legacy/2005%20Legacy=2.5%20GT/007__scaled_600.jpg[/img] Notice there is a little more bumper cover front and rear. Not a big deal to some of us, others think it's the end of the world. I believe the big gripes so far are: -Bumpers -HID -NAV -Rear Wiper on Sedan -Transmission (5 vs 6 or it not beign strong enough) I'm sure I'm missing a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolbluelb Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 JDM [img]http://response.jp/issue/2004/0114/article56921_1.images/60631.jpg[/img] USDM *not the pic I was looking for, but will have to do... [img]http://www.legacysti.com/files/l_492004101953.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Comparing aftermarket bodywork and the Outback is sort of like oranges and Apples. Not exactly the same deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axis008 Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 I think that if the USDM bumper was the only one out, people would still like it. I love it. Sure it's not as nice as the curvacious JDM one (too lazy to post picture), but it's still pretty damn nice. I has a subdued look to it. Adds more to the sleeper image, in my opinion. -ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolbluelb Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 [quote name='SUBE555']Comparing aftermarket bodywork and the Outback is sort of like oranges and Apples. Not exactly the same deal.[/quote] Well, I did note that I could not find the exact USDM profile picture that I wanted. As for showing the difference in 'projection' between the two, I think the aftermarket JDM picture suffices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sub-attraction Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Ok, so now I'm confused about what bumper is what. :? The first pic in this thread is not what I thought of as having the JDM front bumper. I thought it was like the White and Silver cars in the foreground below.... So what I thought of as JDM was really a Spec B bumper, I guess? The RBP car in the back then is a JDM GT? Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolbluelb Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Your picture (above) is of a JDM bumper. I will not pretend to tell you I know the difference between a Spec B bumper, and that of another JDM model. The main difference between JDM and USDM is how much the actual bumper projects. On the JDM models, the hood/headlights seem to flow down the front of the car while, the USDM bumper projects from the natural flow of the car. This is what I had attempted to demonstrate in the photos I posted above. I have not been one to complain about this point to any degree, but it is quite noticeable none-the-less. While the differences are mainly visible in profile, maybe these pics from the front will help demonstrate the differences. USDM [img]http://www.subiegal.com/images/events/2004_naias/2005_subaru_GT_front.jpg[/img] JDM [img]http://www.legacysti.com/files/p2190039.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 They are different, but only by a few inches. Needless to say that some people just won't accept the new Legacy the way the way SOA is presenting it. I say the car looks fine, but I will say that the extra bumper materials does lower the GT's sex appeal. Still would rather be safe than sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 The total car length difference is 2.5 inches, I read somewhere. The other thing is that nobody, and I mean nobody, has EVER posted two pictures of the USDM and JDM cars from the exact same angles, so nobody knows how different the bumpers are in terms of the exceptionally negative light in which they have been cast. I find the whole thing ridiculous, but I've said that before, tantamount to complaining about a zit on Tyra Banks. :lol: When you see the cars in person, they look fantastic. Further, guys from Japan and other markets are importing USDM 2.5-liter blocks already. Ask them if they'd rather have their bumpers, or our motors. Crikey, get over it. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Zevil Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 The bumper won't be a deal breaker for anyone who is willing to drive the car. Who cares? My bugeye WRX doesn't appeal from the outside, but it's a beautiful ride on the inside :D Unfortunately in the forum environment we are forced to face these issues..no matter how many times we have beaten them dead! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kage Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 [img]http://www.rock-it-land.com/southwestvoodoo/deadhorse1.gif[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted April 21, 2004 Author Share Posted April 21, 2004 I think I see what you guys are getting at. The JDM bumper is fairly different but what if there was only one bumper for both markets? "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimil Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Don't underestimate human nature. There will be always something to whine about :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolbluelb Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 I don't think anyone here is complaining. A question was asked and answered. The bumpers are different and, as Dr. Zevil pointed out, the USDM version is not as appealing as the JDM. Having said this, we would all [b]clearly[/b] rather have the USDM engine over the 2.0 JDM. I think the car is great and plan on looking/test driving once they are available in show rooms. If everything goes as I think it will, I will likely own one shortly thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPower Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 [quote name='coolbluelb'] USDM [img]http://www.subiegal.com/images/events/2004_naias/2005_subaru_GT_front.jpg[/img] JDM [img]http://www.legacysti.com/files/p2190039.jpg[/img][/quote] These are the most demonstrative pictures, and you don't have to have the exact same angle to see that there is a difference. I can't find any good pictures of the current US GT bumper, but this is more of an evolution of the current to maintain familiarity of the Legacy. Aside from the extra inch on the nose, I think that the biggest difference is in the design of the lower portion of the bumper. Biggest difference: notice how on the JDM bumper, there is more flat surface around the foglight instead of having all of that area recessed. Second is the center support. The US version is deeper and more narrow. It may also stick out further towards the front edge of the bumper than the non-US version because of that extra depth. The non-US version's support beam looks to be exactly that- only there for support and not supposed to be part of the design element as it is in the US version. Now look at the / \ lines on the bumpers. On the US version, the same line is continued past the bottom horizontal line that forms the "lip". On the non-US bumper, the / \ lines stop at the horizontal line and continue down on the lip portion closer to the sides. What this does is make it look like the lip is a separate, aftermarket piece, and increasing the width visually widens the car a bit. It is not evident in these pictures, but the side profile is dramatically changed mainly in the front because of the additional length. So it's only an inch or so. Put 1/2 inch at the end of YOUR nose and tell me it looks just as good as before. The non-US side profile makes almost a half-circle shape from the top of the hood to the bottom of the front bumper. By extending the front bumper, it is impossible to keep this single arc. So you can prefer one over the other, but there is a marked difference in the styling. There's no problem in acknowledging that. The question is how to "remedy" the look for those who prefer the non-US. 1. import the bumper and shorter beams from another country and pray that your insurance company doesn't clue in if there is an accident. Get a Spec B bumper while you're at it. 2. hope that aftermarket makes a non-US styled bumper We can hope that the aftermarket makes a new bumper that is like the non-US version (GT or Spec B) but with the longer nose to fit the US beam. 3. Find a way to put on the OB flares and bumper onto the GT. 4. The cheapest way would be for an aftermarket company to make foglight covers that increases the flat surface area on the bumper. Ideally, a kit could be made which would extend the foglights out to that flush area. Oh, and I would paint that center support post in a flat black so that it wouldn't stick out so much. In the end, the view from the cockpit should really be more important. But that's not the reality of what people want. If looks didn't matter at all, the bugeye would have sold like hotcakes instead of needing to be restyled. We are focusing mainly on the front side, but I suggest we think differently. Focus on the looks of the rear end since that's what people will really see anyway. :twisted: Wanting to change a bumper is nearly the same thing as wanting to change the wheels. It's just a more difficult proposition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 But all Legacies don't have the same bumpers, so who cares? Further, I prefer the more arrowlike USDM profile to the blunter JDM bumper profile. The shape of the front bumper makes that end pointier, more businesslike. I like it. My whole point is that there is so much stuff that is excellent about this car, that I don't see what the bumpers have to do with anything. Ditto for the roof rails. In the thread that posts pictures, there just isn't that much difference, aside from other markets getting body-colored rails. No biggie. I have this thing about fretting over vaporware, however. We aren't getting the JDM bumpers, so it doesn't matter. We are getting the bumpers that we are getting. If they're a deal-breaker for you, don't buy the car. It's that simple. Hopefully I don't sound too cranky in my desire for logic and viewing things as they are, but let's view things as they are. The bumpers are here...the end. When you see the Legacy in person, you will understand how little of a bother this whole thing is. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PPower Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 [quote name='gtguy']But all Legacies don't have the same bumpers, so who cares? Further, I prefer the more arrowlike USDM profile to the blunter JDM bumper profile. The shape of the front bumper makes that end pointier, more businesslike. I like it. Kevin[/quote] And everybody gets to have their own preferences. No need to knock on others who think differently. Obviously plenty of people were receptive to the US style or they wouldn't have made it that way (surely). This was just a thread asking about what the differences were. No need to turn it into which is "better". Yes, you sound cranky. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 [quote name='PPower']Put 1/2 inch at the end of YOUR nose and tell me it looks just as good as before. The question is how to "remedy" the look for those who prefer the non-US. 1. import the bumper and shorter beams from another country and pray that your insurance company doesn't clue in if there is an accident. Get a Spec B bumper while you're at it. 2. hope that aftermarket makes a non-US styled bumper We can hope that the aftermarket makes a new bumper that is like the non-US version (GT or Spec B) but with the longer nose to fit the US beam. 3. Find a way to put on the OB flares and bumper onto the GT. 4. The cheapest way would be for an aftermarket company to make foglight covers that increases the flat surface area on the bumper. Ideally, a kit could be made which would extend the foglights out to that flush area. Oh, and I would paint that center support post in a flat black so that it wouldn't stick out so much. In the end, the view from the cockpit should really be more important. But that's not the reality of what people want. If looks didn't matter at all, the bugeye would have sold like hotcakes instead of needing to be restyled. We are focusing mainly on the front side, but I suggest we think differently. Focus on the looks of the rear end since that's what people will really see anyway. :twisted: Wanting to change a bumper is nearly the same thing as wanting to change the wheels. It's just a more difficult proposition.[/quote] If you had a 185 inch-long nose, that 1/2" wouldn't matter a whit. That's the point. Yes, the shape is different, no question, and people can do what they want with their cars when they get them. Note also that the bugeye didn't "need" to be restyled. Subaru would even argue that ultimately, they almost certainly regret that restyling because it narrowed the demographics of the WRX. Grownups don't like the restyle, as it makes the car look more tarty. Of course, I freely admit that I will never understand this whole bumper thing. Never have, and never will. It's like complaining about the color of the sky here, vs the color of the sky in Japan. It is what it is. Sure, the color of the sky can't be changed the way a bumper can, but a bumper is something I would never, ever think of changing, which makes it as immutable, in my estimation, as the color of the sky. Plus I'm an old man, as has been noted here before. :lol: Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gtguy Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 [quote name='PPower'][quote name='gtguy']But all Legacies don't have the same bumpers, so who cares? Further, I prefer the more arrowlike USDM profile to the blunter JDM bumper profile. The shape of the front bumper makes that end pointier, more businesslike. I like it. Kevin[/quote] And everybody gets to have their own preferences. No need to knock on others who think differently. Obviously plenty of people were receptive to the US style or they wouldn't have made it that way (surely). This was just a thread asking about what the differences were. No need to turn it into which is "better". Yes, you sound cranky. :D[/quote] It would be one thing if it were a simple matter of preference, but it isn't. The JDM bumper isn't an option that you can choose. You can illegally install one on your car, but that's another matter. Things are as they are, which is my fundamental point. And others have already turned it into which is "better," by saying that the JDM car is "better" than the "ruined" USDM car. That wasn't something that I started. My point is that it doesn't matter, because we get what we get. If all Legacies had the same bumpers, nobody would be saying a thing. The fact that they don't just feeds into the "nothing is ever good enough, there's always something we don't get" mentality of enthusiast message boards. We got a "detuned" WRX, we didn't get 4-pots on the WRX, we didn't get the JDM seats, etc, etc. The Legacy could come with 300hp and a JATO rocket for additional oomph, and people would still carp about the bumpers. Because we are always so fond of seeing what we don't have, rather than what we do. And if this is simply to be a thread about the differences, why propose a "remedy" for the USDM bumpers, as you yourself did, eh? "Be here now" is a Buddhist expression that works in almost every situation. In this one, if you focus on what you don't have, it becomes more difficult to effectively appreciate what you do have. Put more basely, Tyra Banks with a zit is still Tyra Banks, yes? Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUBE555 Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 I like your glass is 3/4 full approach than 1/4 empty view Kevin. You're absolutely right, for the few things some people thing are lacking, there's a hundred things to make up in function, what this car is all about. Besides, the price is unbeatable for the content. I'd have to say I also like the USDM bumpers in the aero look. I am rather interested in seeing what the lack of orange up front will make it look like and how the front will change. Additionally, I will probably just have to roof rails painted to match the rest of the body. They're minor and easily remedied. As I said, byproduct of cost, and we're not losing out on too much, especially considering other countries are importing EJ257's. ;) We got the long end of the stick. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgeracer Posted April 22, 2004 Author Share Posted April 22, 2004 [quote name='SUBE555']I like your glass is 3/4 full approach than 1/4 empty view Kevin. You're absolutely right, for the few things some people thing are lacking, there's a hundred things to make up in function, what this car is all about. Besides, the price is unbeatable for the content. I'd have to say I also like the USDM bumpers in the aero look. I am rather interested in seeing what the lack of orange up front will make it look like and how the front will change. Additionally, I will probably just have to roof rails painted to match the rest of the body. They're minor and easily remedied. As I said, byproduct of cost, and we're not losing out on too much, especially considering other countries are importing EJ257's. ;) We got the long end of the stick. :)[/quote] On that note, anyone notice how much more car we are getting over any Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Acura, Audi in this price range? I can just hear people asking me already...."THATS a Subaru..!!!" "Its alot better than my (fill in the blanks)" "Gimme mines Balboa...Gimme mines".....Clubber Lang - Mr. T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panos Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 [quote name='Ridgeracer'] On that note, anyone notice how much more car we are getting over any Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Acura, Audi in this price range? I can just hear people asking me already...."THATS a Subaru..!!!" "Its alot better than my (fill in the blanks)"[/quote] I was between the (JDM) Legacy and a 330. When I finally got the Legacy I got a few, 'I'm glad you got the BMW, the new ones look so sweet'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerdave Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 [quote name='Ridgeracer'] On that note, anyone notice how much more car we are getting over any Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Acura, Audi in this price range? [/quote] That's the key for me. The car -- on paper -- seems like it's way more car for a lot less $$ than the other finalist on my list -- the 325iT. Now, I think the 325iT looks a lot better -- it's gorgeous in my eyes. [img]http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/88E02882-137F-46D7-9D42-4E9CE605D7E3/0/0435_01.jpg[/img] It's also rear drive, which is not a true comparison, but my new-car criteria are 1) that it has to be rear *or* all-wheel drive. I'm sick of FWD. 2) have a manual transmission. 3) have outstanding handling and reflexes. The BMW has those things. It's a great car. It's just the Subaru promises to be more powerful, a bit roomier, have more standard features and cost a lot less. In short, the Legacy GT wagon is going to have to suck pretty bad when I test drive it for it not to win. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flat4fantasy Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 I think the bumpers, while they far from "ruin" the car, they take away something. The original car's design hit the nail on the head first time around (i.e. JDM spec bumpers) and that is the way the car was "designed" to look by Subaru and it is evident. I seriously doubt it is a "deal breaker" for anyone. But I appreciate PPower's post. Because it is something that I was disappointed at but I'll do what I need to do and what I like to the car to remedy my opinion of the bumper. And not to flame on you GTGuy, but your slippery slope of logic is just that...I think a lot of non-Jews during Hitler's reign said, "Well that's just the way it is". I am not comparing the two, just an analogy, while an extreme one at that. Sure sometimes one has to accept what is "here and now" but it's always up to an individual to "change things." PPower, what do you know about the 'longer' brackets that hold (is that also reinforce?) the bumper. Are the similiar to how trucks have side fender brackets? I wonder how relatively easy (or hard) it would be to swap out? Peace, dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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