Neurodancer Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 We just have to be patient on this.. How many LGT's are there compared to evo's, wrx's, or sti's out there? In addition you see the difference even more when you see how many LGT's are being modded compared to the other known tuning cars.... It's actually not that long of a time since our cars have been out... If the new LGT's have had the same configuration, this might be a different story, but it's not. The EVO's have been out for quite some while, but they haven't gotten an AP until now, though the recent ones have been using the canbus setup... but again, the EVOs have a much stronger tuning presence than the LGT, and have been so for quite some while. ,000 to this entire post, but I shortened it for space. I was going to make this same point - Over the past few months there have been monthly updates on Subaru's sales and where does the Legacy fit in those numbers? In September, Outbacks accounted for 4,796 of 6,777 Legacy units sold. There is no breakout of turbo models, but I'd guess that they are a small fraction of both the Legacy and Outback totals (I was one of the Legacies sold in that month!). It is a pretty small volume and the GT/Tuner market is only a fraction of those cars. From a business perspective, Cobb would have to focus on where the volume is to stay viable. If they focused on a small subset of an already small niche market, they would not have the revenue to invest in the R&D necessary to come out with new products. As much as some people here don't want to hear this, the Legacy GT is a great "sleeper" because nobody buys them. Since volumes are low, they are a smaller priority for aftermarket suppliers than vehicles that sell at WRX volumes. My $0.02, FWIW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neurodancer Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 This thread started on 6/16. The MS3 came out around then, and the 08 Wrx wasn't even close to coming out. On post #24 (on 8/22) Christian said that made a huge step and that they were beginng beta testing that should take a few weeks. This wasn't even the first thread that was talking about the Ap2 for the 07/08 cars. Just stating the facts here. You can say I'm bashing COBB here, but all I'd really like is at least a realistic nongeneric answer as to when the LGT is finally going to have a AP2. Your points are fair enough, but Cobb is a small business. Their email addresses are just their First Name @ Cobbtuning . com, if that is any indicator --> They have limited staffing to focus on multiple projects. The Evo project is a no-brainer for being a higher priority than the 07+ LGT, and even then it only covers up to 2006. Now that Subaru is standardized on CANBUS, there is a greater business justification to focus their attention on this platform as Subaru buyers are a majority of their market. The "huge step" was in development, it still takes time to finalize the product and release to production. I am hoping for an announcement at SEMA that they are ready to take orders and begin shipping before year-end. If they hit this goal, I will be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02BlkRex Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Agreed - but a 2 second search can reveal 4 statements from Cobb over the last year and a half where it was strongly implied it would be released several times, the finish line being moved just a bit each time. If they want to stay silent, or simply say no comment, that's fine. But, statements like that, at least in the software industry, are known as defensive tactics in the marketplace to try and get customers not to bite on a competitors solution that's beat them to market. Microsoft mastered this practice in the late 90's. Nothing wrong with it, and it's 100% the customers decision not to purchase the competitive product, but the company employing the tactic is benefiting - Period. So, while it's fine to defend Cobb and point out everyone's obligation and free will, I wouldn't call their hands clean when they have been benefiting from making expected release statements on more than one occasion. And there it is! Perfect way to put it! +10000000000000000000000000. I just want a date that it WILL be released or a "we don't know" from Cobb. That's all. No more run arounds. As a consumer, I don't think that's too much to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wichitalegacy Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I think they are just waiting to group the v2 ap for the can bus vehicles just like the way they did it with the first round of v2s ( all vehicles on the same ap ) . This way they can release the ap for the 07-08 lgt, wrx , sti, etc.... The bad thing is that this would put you back til next year ( waiting for the sti ). This is just an idea... I have no clue what there plans are . anyways. I thought I would ramble my idea to you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMac1203 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Guys, My notions are not arguments towards anyone here, please understand that; nor do I have any brand loyalty to Cobb (although I do own an AP). I agree that it is frustrating if a company changes release dates, is unclear, etc. But how often do you actually see a "We're not sure" response from companies? If you go to a website that isn't available yet, it doesn't say "We're not sure when this will be done...so check back", it says "Coming Soon" (usually without a release date of any kind). Being that Cobb is a smaller operation, as mentioned by another member as well, changes is schedule are common. No, they are not necessarily favorable, but they are common nonetheless. These schedule alterations can happen for many different reasons (ie: Changing focus to larger markets, production halts, etc.) Please, again, I am in no way defending anyone or anything. Just personally being a small business owner myself, I am trying to rationalize some of the comments made and show that they're really not out of the ordinary. It is possible that some comments made to the members here could have been structured differently, more effective, etc. but this is an enthusiast site. We are the customers on this site, not the investors and stakeholders. As mentioned, we may be the ones with buyer control on their products, but our buyer-control is VERY small relative to other markets. This in no way implies that we should be forgotten, just that sometimes priorities take place. Although Cobb has not given a set release date, they have showed us continuously that they are working on it. Date or no date, the AP is coming and will be available. Although Cobb has made mentions to availability in the past, a release date was never set. So, to the view of the producer, they're not letting anyone down. Impatience is one thing, but failure to hit a mark is another. I am not here to criticize company/marketing ploys or member reactions, I'm here as a member too just giving my thoughts. Please take them with a grain of salt and without hostility. Need a CarPC bezel? PM me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02BlkRex Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Guys, My notions are not arguments towards anyone here, please understand that; nor do I have any brand loyalty to Cobb (although I do own an AP). I agree that it is frustrating if a company changes release dates, is unclear, etc. But how often do you actually see a "We're not sure" response from companies? If you go to a website that isn't available yet, it doesn't say "We're not sure when this will be done...so check back", it says "Coming Soon" (usually without a release date of any kind). Being that Cobb is a smaller operation, as mentioned by another member as well, changes is schedule are common. No, they are not necessarily favorable, but they are common nonetheless. These schedule alterations can happen for many different reasons (ie: Changing focus to larger markets, production halts, etc.) Please, again, I am in no way defending anyone or anything. Just personally being a small business owner myself, I am trying to rationalize some of the comments made and show that they're really not out of the ordinary. It is possible that some comments made to the members here could have been structured differently, more effective, etc. but this is an enthusiast site. We are the customers on this site, not the investors and stakeholders. As mentioned, we may be the ones with buyer control on their products, but our buyer-control is VERY small relative to other markets. This in no way implies that we should be forgotten, just that sometimes priorities take place. Although Cobb has not given a set release date, they have showed us continuously that they are working on it. Date or no date, the AP is coming and will be available. Although Cobb has made mentions to availability in the past, a release date was never set. So, to the view of the producer, they're not letting anyone down. Impatience is one thing, but failure to hit a mark is another. I am not here to criticize company/marketing ploys or member reactions, I'm here as a member too just giving my thoughts. Please take them with a grain of salt and without hostility. I agree with most of what you said but it is starting to get a bit excessive after a year and a half. I for one would have rather had a "Coming Soon" response rather than empty, erroneous dates that come and go. From a consumer standpoint, Cobb has no credibility with me now when it comes to release dates. Fortunatly they produce a great product that I am willing to wait for up to a point. Some people here have put off pursuing other tuning options solely based on those bogus release dates Cobb has been touting and that is what is most wrong in my eyes. Out of curiosity, what have you seen that leads you to believe that they, "have showed us continuously that they are working on it" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimakf7 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I agree with most of what you said but it is starting to get a bit excessive after a year and a half. I for one would have rather had a "Coming Soon" response rather than empty, erroneous dates that come and go. From a consumer standpoint, Cobb has no credibility with me now when it comes to release dates. Fortunatly they produce a great product that I am willing to wait for up to a point. Some people here have put off pursuing other tuning options solely based on those bogus release dates Cobb has been touting and that is what is most wrong in my eyes. Out of curiosity, what have you seen that leads you to believe that they, "have showed us continuously that they are working on it" ? The progress that they've been through..... They've taken input towards current issues that we have, and I believe they are looking for cars in their area to test their product. Which leads me to believe that they are fairly deep in the process. The main thing that was holding them up was because the CANBUS cable manufacturers had long lead times, and wouldn't give any updates to Cobb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian. Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 Yesterday was a bit hectic being the opening day of the show. I was able to update the Legacy owners on some of the products we have been developing, but I did not have time to get to this thread. Long story, we are not a marketing company and I can only offer an apology for that. Had we been larger and more focused on the marketing side of this business, I am sure we would have better communicated about ETAs (which are just that ESTIMATED TIMEs of ARRIVAL). So we are at fault for being poor estimators and you can rightly say that you will never have us estimate for you again . Hopefully we can demonstrate that we are still enthusiasts and that we care about what we do and most importantly, that we care about providing our customers with the best products and customer service we can. Some may not care to hear this, but I will state it just so this is understood. We only have so many talented people that work for us and it is up to us to take care of many different aspects of the business. From my perspective; we recently released the AccessPORT with our calibrations for the USDM EVO 8 & 9s. This was a large undertaking on our part, and it is up to us (the relatively small group) to properly service these customers. This also leads to sleepless nights for me waiting to hear back on some initial responses from various tuners, customers, magazines, etc. We had to educate the EVO owners about the various issues we have seen with these vehicles through various technical bulletins. We need to create map notes, train ourselves internally, etc. so that we are better able to assist our clients and properly answer their concerns. Bla, bla, bla. I am not one to take on more than I can handle because it leads to worse service provide to a greater number of people IMO. I appreciate having the ability to personally respond to e-mails, PM, & phone and I hope our clients do as well. With that said, part of the LGT's delay was me asking for time to allow myself the ability to address any initial calibration revisions, respond to e-mails, forums, phone calls, etc. of the EVO AccessPORT owners. Now that the release is out and some feedback is in I am more confident and capable to address another priority for us which is the CAN Subarus. We will need some time to follow up with people from SEMA and to recover , but I know the release of the AccessPORT for the CAN LGT is coming along. Short story, our goal is to have the AccessPORT for the CAN LGT in your hands by December of this year. Whether or not this is good enough for you is up to you. It is your decision to purchase an AccessPORT or not. I hope this post was able to communicate what I intended. I will do my best to address your questions and concerns as time allows. Take care, Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimakf7 Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Thanks for the update, Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wichitalegacy Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 thank got I have an 05 . I am frustrated just reading about this . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakasama Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 My subscription to this thread finally paid off! Thank you -Jim (AKA 09F911029D74E35BD84156C5635688C0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrunone Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 OK sweet. Dec works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laz Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Wow those evo boys are a different breed! http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=299786 Good to hear that there will be something for the 07+ cars. X --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmfspecb Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Fabulous. I'm looking forward to the release and all the extra ponies that come with getting my new hardware tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERLoft Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 I certainly understand about wanting to get the calibrations correct, but those are really for the 'stock' Stage 1, 2, etc maps, right? For someone like myself, who will immediately have the car Pro Tuned with my own maps, it'd sure be nice to be able to get my hands on the hardware so I can get to to the tuners. That being said, I can see why releasing the AP without any maps available would be misunderstood by some out there. Then Cobb would hear it for not having them ready when the hardware shipped. Stupid Catch-22's. At least I know I'm first in line at my tuners for an LGT AP... 2013 █S4 - Glacier White - DSG - B&O - Tech Package - Sports Diff - Napa - RS4 Grille - Stasis Exhaust - APR Intake - KW Variant 1 - Stern Control Arms - CR-15 - Stasis RSB - Moog Endlinks - PC Hyper Black Peelers - Deval Front Lip - ECS Rear Diffuser - Carbon Imports Ducktail - ECS Mirror Caps - Relak Paddle Extensions - Autostyle Floor Mats - LED Interior - V1 - Blackvue DR900s - [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondgraymetallic21 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Time for AWD burnouts in December, more power for the snow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonts Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Great. Thanks for the update Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejoy1220 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Wow those evo boys are a different breed! http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=299786 Good to hear that there will be something for the 07+ cars. X Holy crap, the new AccessPORT is gorgeous. I think it's gonna be time for me to swap my V.1 for a new one Looking at the post on EvoM.net, it says that the Evo APs have valet mode, economy mode, does anyone know if the AP V.2 for the 05 LGT has those features???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimakf7 Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Holy crap, the new AccessPORT is gorgeous. I think it's gonna be time for me to swap my V.1 for a new one Looking at the post on EvoM.net, it says that the Evo APs have valet mode, economy mode, does anyone know if the AP V.2 for the 05 LGT has those features???? Yup, they do. You can upload valet mode / economy mode maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Impulse Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 +anti-theft for the LGT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005garnetGT Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 Yup, they do. You can upload valet mode / economy mode maps. v1s have those maps as well. antitheft is pointless on immobilized LGTs (which all are) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimakf7 Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 v1s have those maps as well. antitheft is pointless on immobilized LGTs (which all are) antitheft is not pointless when someone steals your keys and goes for a joyride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one69chev Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 i'm just hoping that when it does come out, not only will it have been worth waiting for, but it will help with those crappy manual mode up-shifts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractorcrusher Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 antitheft is not pointless when someone steals your keys and goes for a joyride. or throws it on a flatbed and has a friend at subaru who sells them keys... which is usually how cars with imobilizers get stolen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2005garnetGT Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 antitheft is not pointless when someone steals your keys and goes for a joyride. if someone stole your keys, you've got other problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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