Suspension reccomendations?

[epoch]

I have an 05' LGT LTD Wagon with MT. I have read through a ton of posts about suspension mods and I am as confused as ever. Basically I want to tighten up the suspension without lowering the car too much or having my spine shatter going over a slight bump in the road.

 

I have a budget of $1500 including install. I was told that with suspension it is usually a good idea to stick with the same manufacture as it helps eliminate issues with things bolting up properly. I would like to keep the factory strut's. My original thoughts were to do the following.

 

Cobb Spring's

Cobb Frnt/Rear Sway Bars

Cobb F/R Strut Towers

Cobb F/R Endlinks

 

This is a daily driver and I commute from Upstate NY to Connecticut on a weekly basis so keeping a fairly comfortable ride is important to me. I guess I look at it like this I used to drive an Audi A4 with a factory sport suspension package. I want to get my Subie to have a similar feel/ride.

 

As I said before, after reading through all the posts here I am more confused than ever on what to do. I really want to get the best bang for my buck. Does anyone have any other recommendations on a pretty good suspension package? I also want the parts to last a long time as I do not plan to get rid of the car any time soon.

[BlackHole]

There are a lot more experienced people on here, so hopefully they'll chime in. My budget is about the same and here's what I'd do:

 

$1000 Megan Racing Outback coilovers (see the group buy threads for details / reviews)

$150 Cusco 21mm rear sway bar

$ 80 AVO reinforced rear swaybar brackets

$100 good alignment

 

That leaves $170 for install + tax. A front sway bar, strut tower bars and endlinks are way down my list.

 

Your mileage may vary.

Kyle "BlackHole"

[suds2250]

epoch - I have some jdm spec b bilstiens match with prova springs. I also have whiteline swaybars front and rear. The ride is awesome. The faster I go, the more balenced it feels. If your commute is semi-smooth roads I think you would like the ride. If you drive on alot of rough roads, any lowered suspension is going to be harsh.

 

Ditch the endlinks - stockers are good.

Strut towers are for bling only.

[epoch]

My commute is pretty much all Highway/Thruway and then into the Berkshires for some mountain driving. I also do a bit of city driving on your typical Upstate NY roads. Typically there are a lot of potholes, but I avoid those when I can. So with the JDM Spec B's, do I need to get new tophats also? This is where I start getting really confused. I have read through all the posts but am still lost.... What was the total cost of your setup?

 

With the Whitelines did you replace the mounts also?

 

Thanks

Andrew aka Epoch.

 

epoch - I have some jdm spec b bilstiens match with prova springs. I also have whiteline swaybars front and rear. The ride is awesome. The faster I go, the more balenced it feels. If your commute is semi-smooth roads I think you would like the ride. If you drive on alot of rough roads, any lowered suspension is going to be harsh.

 

Ditch the endlinks - stockers are good.

Strut towers are for bling only.

[epoch]

So here is my next question. I see a lot of debate over coilovers or new springs/strut setups. I know it really comes down to a matter of personal prefernce. But what are the positives/negatives of each?

 

 

 

There are a lot more experienced people on here, so hopefully they'll chime in. My budget is about the same and here's what I'd do:

 

$1000 Megan Racing Outback coilovers (see the group buy threads for details / reviews)

$150 Cusco 21mm rear sway bar

$ 80 AVO reinforced rear swaybar brackets

$100 good alignment

 

That leaves $170 for install + tax. A front sway bar, strut tower bars and endlinks are way down my list.

 

Your mileage may vary.

Kyle "BlackHole"

[SubiGT]

If you lower the car at all, you should probably ditch the stock struts. They will bottom out in their housings pretty easy at lower then stock ride height.

 

I like my whiteline 22f/20r sways. IMO, they are the best for the price. I am ditching my Swift springs on stock struts(see above for reason:)) in favor of a slightly used set of Tein GT Wagon coilovers.

 

+1 on not needing endlinks or strut tower bars at this point. That money is better used in matching your spring/damper combo or getting a set of coilovers. They are also something you could easily add later that will not affect your alignment, and you can do the install of strut bars and endlinks yourself to save install cash.

 

Another option would be to contact some of our vendors directly. They are a wealth of knowledge, and even if you don't buy from them this time, you will remember them the next time you are shopping. PM member Boostjunkie or Mach V Dan, they can help alot on suspension needs and questions.

 

If I were doing it over, I would have bought a quality set of rebuildable coilovers(Tein, KW's, etc) the first time I took my suspension apart. Would have saved me alot of repeated work when my coilovers get here next week. Since I do my own work, I am gaining experience by wasting time, and not wasting install $$$ as well.

[Boostjunkie]

I have an 05' LGT LTD Wagon with MT. I have read through a ton of posts about suspension mods and I am as confused as ever. Basically I want to tighten up the suspension without lowering the car too much or having my spine shatter going over a slight bump in the road.

 

I have a budget of $1500 including install. I was told that with suspension it is usually a good idea to stick with the same manufacture as it helps eliminate issues with things bolting up properly. I would like to keep the factory strut's. My original thoughts were to do the following.

 

Cobb Spring's

Cobb Frnt/Rear Sway Bars

Cobb F/R Strut Towers

Cobb F/R Endlinks

 

This is a daily driver and I commute from Upstate NY to Connecticut on a weekly basis so keeping a fairly comfortable ride is important to me. I guess I look at it like this I used to drive an Audi A4 with a factory sport suspension package. I want to get my Subie to have a similar feel/ride.

 

As I said before, after reading through all the posts here I am more confused than ever on what to do. I really want to get the best bang for my buck. Does anyone have any other recommendations on a pretty good suspension package? I also want the parts to last a long time as I do not plan to get rid of the car any time soon.

 

You do not need to stick to the same manufacturer at all. The way your sway bars mount to your car has nothing to do with your springs for instance. On your budget I would definitely skip on the strut tower bars. IMHO they are largely worthless. The stock endlinks are usually fine for most people unless you have monsterously large sway bars. If you want a compliant ride with improved body control you need to upgrade the shocks. They have the biggest impact on ride/handling over all other mods. Obviously coilovers incorporate new shock that are properly matched to their springs. BTW, let me make one point very clear about coilovers. Lots of people think they are some kind of strange and mystical part. They are simply shocks with threads cut on their bodies and spring perches threaded on. Nothing more, nothing less. They are no less reliable, and do not fundamentally require periodic maintenance any more than regular fixed perch struts.

 

Within your budget, if you are not looking to lower the car any great amount I would suggest the Megan Racing Outback spec coilovers. They do a fantastic job of retaining much of your stock ride quality while dramatically tightening up the handing. Even with a set of sway bars and labor you should be right at your budget.

 

Another option that will keep you well under your budget would be the Tein Basic coilovers. They are less full featured than the MR OB coilovers, but will certainly do the job you want for about $200 less. PM me if you have any other question or would like to order. I have a number of option in stock and at great prices.

[suds2250]

My commute is pretty much all Highway/Thruway and then into the Berkshires for some mountain driving. I also do a bit of city driving on your typical Upstate NY roads. Typically there are a lot of potholes, but I avoid those when I can. So with the JDM Spec B's, do I need to get new tophats also? This is where I start getting really confused. I have read through all the posts but am still lost.... What was the total cost of your setup?

 

With the Whitelines did you replace the mounts also?

 

Thanks

Andrew aka Epoch.

 

Andrew,

I bought the bilsteins used from the classifieds here. They were complete with springs and the front top hats (all you need with bilsteins) for 750 shipped.

 

You can get new Bilsteins from several vendors now for about $600. Several have bought them and are quite happy with the performance. of course, you will need to factor in new front tophats ($100) and springs ($300?) into the total price.

 

I agree with Subigt, the whitelines are great for the price. I got front and rear adjustables for about $300 shipped.

 

So, add it all up and make a choice. I think a new strut/shock purchase is about the same price as the Megan coilovers. I have never rode in a car with coilovers, I just figured I didn't need all the adjustability they provide plus I got a great deal on the bilsteins. I'm very happy with the ride.

[mbcracken]

[Waxiboy]

Bilstein HD struts = $600~

JDM wagon springs = $200~ (used)

JDM RSB = $150~

SpecB/JDM front top hat = $100~

[sirsimon]

^ +1000 on this plan!

[sactojesse]

Bilstein HD struts = $600~

JDM wagon springs = $200~ (used)

JDM RSB = $150~

SpecB/JDM front top hat = $100~

Those are exactly my plans, but I'm waiting for the Bilstein HDs to become available again. Thus far, I have the JDM RSB and JDM LGT wagon springs gathering dust in my garage, anxiously awaiting the availability of the HDs.

[whitetiger]

No need for strut tower bars.

Do this

Tien basic coilovers=~$900 (spring and shock ar matched so no worries about which spring to pick)

any F+R swaybar set=~$300-$400 (no need for endlinks until the stock ones break)

Fulcrum LCA offset bushings=~$150 (will improve turn-in and steering response 10 fold)

A good alignment=~$100 (mandatory with any suspension modification)

 

Ive installed everything here several times and have had no "bolt-up" issues.

 

Oh, and if you didnt get better tires yet, do that first.

[Boostjunkie]

Tien basic coilovers=~$900 (spring and shock ar matched so no worries about which spring to pick)

 

Heck I have a brand new set of Tein Basics in stock for $790. Bam! $110 saved right there!

[ScoopMan]

JDM Spec B Bilsteins w/springs & tophats (takeoffs from unclemat): around $700 - $750

JDM rear sway: around $150

Alignment: around $60

Total: $900 to $1000

That's what I have, and I'M LUVIN IT!

It is a MASSIVE change from stock, I can assure you.

Leaves $500 to $600 for decent summer tires, beer, wuddeva...

[HansGT]

Sounds like he wants a comfy ride and not lowered very much if at all.

 

JDM GT REV A with JDM Springs or JDM/USDM REV C and JDM springs.

Upgrade to sticker tires 225/45/17 taller sidewall...better ride

If that's not enough....add sway bars.

[subieracer]

my one issue with coilovers is that people keep saying you need to get them corner balanced or the ride is crappy. anyone shed any light on this?

[RaceComp Engineering]

Coilovers do not need to be cornerbalanced. You get a little more performance out of them if you do, but it definitely does not impact ride quality by any noticeable amount.

 

I completely recommend getting your car cornerbalanced if you track your car, but it's not the end of the world by any means if your car is just a street car.

 

- Andrew

[subieracer]

cool, always wondered about that

i'd prob end up doing it because i plan to autocross the whale.... errr wagon..

[ScoopMan]

Sounds like he wants a comfy ride and not lowered very much if at all.

 

JDM GT REV A with JDM Springs or JDM/USDM REV C and JDM springs.

Upgrade to sticker tires 225/45/17 taller sidewall...better ride

If that's not enough....add sway bars.

Words of the wise from Han... I have not driven on the JDM GT Billies but everyone here who has them are very happy it seems, they are not as stiff as the JDM Spec b (rev a) that I have. These might not be for everybody...

In any case, pm unclemat for this stuff! He is the river from which all JDM Bilstein takeoff wisdom flows (not to mention the goodies themselves)!

I would say a set of these (including springs and front top hats) for around $700-750, JDM rsb for around $150-180, and some sweet tires to replace the deservedly maligned RE92's, could bring you in at around $1500.

And your life will be changed!

[VTGT]

I have not heard of any reviews on the SPEC B. Rev C but they seem like the best compromise btw comfort and ride judging by JDM FAQ.

[sportwagon]

My suspension is as follows:

 

JDM GT Rev A's / JDM PINK 5MT Sedan Sport Springs (JDM top hats, etc)

Cusco 23/21 Sways with Avo Endlinks (Cobb rear reinforcement bracket, too)

Cusco F & R Lower Braces

Spec B aluminum arms w/ Superpro poly bushings (castor increase)

STi Trailng Arms

and a Bling Bling STi upper fron strut brace

Oh, can't forget the Potenza R's on BBS RKs

 

The ride is well planted at any speed, and approximately just = >1" lowered

It is very stable at high speeds and tracks like it is on rails...

The NVH is considerablely greater than what it was stock (duh) but I've trained my GF to not bitch about it too much!

The car is phenomanal on smooth roads and is "loud" on rough pothole-filled roads (Boston)... I've got a RSB front lip never really touches (ocassionaly when there is a very sudden and dramatic raise on the tarmac it will scrape)... I've got rally armor mud flaps that rub sometimes (mostly the rear driver's side one on those same type raised entrances)... and I feel safe because I have a SSI aluminum Skid plate protecting the lower portion of the engine (believe me it works)...

 

I know it is not the setup you are looking considering (lowered) but it is worth it to consider the possiblity of a slight drop... It really doesn't comprimise as much day to day drivability as you might think it does... In the snow, my front lip spoiler is like a snow plow, but with good snow tires I have driven through 10-11" of snow with no worries!!! (again the aluminum skid plate gives me peace of mind to have fun in the snow)

 

Anyway... there were a lot of good suggestions above and if you do get sway bars and skip the endlinks, let us know how long they last!

[Lie495s14]

hi sportwagon, what do you mean by "The car is phenomanal on smooth roads and is "loud" on rough pothole-filled roads (Boston)... " because i'm in NYC, roads are terrible here. I'd like to hear more of you story on rough roads . thanx ~

[epoch]

Thanks for the info. I am starting to lean towards a setup like this. I just can not justify the money for coilovers right now. I just got whiteline f/r sway bars and am waiting to get them installed once I purchase end links. I am then going to do the spings/struts, but it is looking like a new clutch might have to come first..... go figure.

 

 

 

 

 

My suspension is as follows:

 

JDM GT Rev A's / JDM PINK 5MT Sedan Sport Springs (JDM top hats, etc)

Cusco 23/21 Sways with Avo Endlinks (Cobb rear reinforcement bracket, too)

Cusco F & R Lower Braces

Spec B aluminum arms w/ Superpro poly bushings (castor increase)

STi Trailng Arms

and a Bling Bling STi upper fron strut brace

Oh, can't forget the Potenza R's on BBS RKs

 

The ride is well planted at any speed, and approximately just = >1" lowered

It is very stable at high speeds and tracks like it is on rails...

The NVH is considerablely greater than what it was stock (duh) but I've trained my GF to not bitch about it too much!

The car is phenomanal on smooth roads and is "loud" on rough pothole-filled roads (Boston)... I've got a RSB front lip never really touches (ocassionaly when there is a very sudden and dramatic raise on the tarmac it will scrape)... I've got rally armor mud flaps that rub sometimes (mostly the rear driver's side one on those same type raised entrances)... and I feel safe because I have a SSI aluminum Skid plate protecting the lower portion of the engine (believe me it works)...

 

I know it is not the setup you are looking considering (lowered) but it is worth it to consider the possiblity of a slight drop... It really doesn't comprimise as much day to day drivability as you might think it does... In the snow, my front lip spoiler is like a snow plow, but with good snow tires I have driven through 10-11" of snow with no worries!!! (again the aluminum skid plate gives me peace of mind to have fun in the snow)

 

Anyway... there were a lot of good suggestions above and if you do get sway bars and skip the endlinks, let us know how long they last!

[sportwagon]

hi sportwagon, what do you mean by "The car is phenomanal on smooth roads and is "loud" on rough pothole-filled roads (Boston)... " because i'm in NYC, roads are terrible here. I'd like to hear more of you story on rough roads . thanx ~

 

This is the first car I have ever lowered (or even done any suspension modification to... I guess I definitely got bit by the suspension mod bug, huh?)

 

I came from GTi's (2) and Passat GLX's (2), to a 2002 WRX sportwagon (hence the name sportwagon)... They all for the most part handled great... the GTis better than the passats, and the WRX like nothing else I had ever experienced! AWD!!! ...

 

The leggie was soft and comfy or bouncy and sloppy (depending on how you look at it)... I knew that it needed an improvement, or two, or three... or thirty three!!! The problem was that one mod led another, which led to needing another supporting mod, and another...

 

Right away, I felt of the leggie as more of a "street" car than the WRX, which I loved to take in the dirt, grass, sand, or whatever... So, when contemplating the the suspension upgrades, as you are doing now, I finally conjured up the courage to get some lowering springs...

 

I bought a package: pinks and cusco sways... this led to awesome improvements and brought me close to where I was looking to go! The problem was that the harsh roads eventually took there toll on the struts, among other components of the suspension. Mind you, this was over one-two years and ~25-30 thousand miles...

 

(next mod was Rallitek skid plate group buy)

 

The next mods were endlinks, the rear sway bar brackets and the cusco front brace... nice improvements! tighter feel and even less dip/dive/side-to-side sway than before...

 

Eventually the tenis balls in my LCAs were shot and the struts were becoming increasingly bouncy... So, over the last winter I accumulated the remaining parts to FINISH the suspension ... They included:

• JDM GT rev. A struts
  
• All new seals, mounts, bolts, etc. to mount the struts
  
• Trailing arms with spherical bearings to tighten up where sloppy rubber bushings once lived
  
• The rear cusco brace to match the front
  
• some energy suspension sway bar bushings
  
• Superpro LCA poly bushings (didn't go with Perrin PSR kit because I felt the poly would give slightly less NVH and a tad bit more compliance on crappy surfaces)
  
• Aluminum control arms because obviously it is easier to press poly bushings into aluminum than steel
  
• cusco exhaust hangars to raise the exhaust clearance slightly

and

• $$$ to pay for professional installation and alignment

I just had the suspension work done at the begining of this month... it is so, so awesome... Worth it, definitely... for sure!

 

Here is my impressions on the way it handles vs. NVH

 

Highways and freeways:

Well, I guess wht I was trying to say was that on a smooth paved surface the car handles like a dream and it is quiet in the cabin. Hit a bridge flex joint at eighty and the sound associated ranges from a minor thud to a shotgun blast depending on how smooth and level the pavement is before and after the joint. This depends on where you are driving of course and how fast you are going. On average the noise vibration harshness (NVH) isn't much more than it was stock, but the really bad sections of highway can "feel" pretty intense... By the way, the car never looses traction, balance or control during any highway driving that I have ever experienced since the latest suspension mods (stock it definitely would have), we are just talking about noise and harshness felt in the cabin.

 

Overall, for my current setup on any highway, I would take the pros (handling, grip, stability, fun factor) over the cons (NVH) of the suspension 999 times out of a thousand. My girlfriend on the other hand might say 99/1000...

 

 

 

Urban/subarban roads:

For potholes, construction patches, plates, graded/stripped/uneven surfaces, rutted dirt roads and everything in-between that a New England road is gonna throw at you... you are going to feel it and likely hear it, too! Again, the noise and harshness is percieved as way worse than it actually is. The car is still way better off mechanically and structuraly than it was stock... (Important) minus the clearance!!!

 

The car does not bottom out or hit the bump stops very much at all... but a the NVH is amplified to the extent that you think it might be. The car tears around corners much better than it would stock and it actually soaks up the bumps better, too... but the sounds can make you cringe! The faster you go the louder it sounds... Obviously most bumps are avoidable and the ones that aren't can be approached easily enough to minimize the NVH if you are so inclined, but again the car never looses traction, balance or control at any point during non-highway driving. On rare occasions there are obstacles that need to be navigated past cautiously in order to not brush the Front lip spoiler or the mufflers... but if I do it is really not a problem. One time there was a very close call, see link: here but that is exactly why I have a stainless steel skid plate. Also, I've noticed that the Rally Armor mud flaps actually prevent bottoming out and scraping the lip or muffler about 99% of the time... they are very rigid and support a suprising amount of weight, and the scraping only has a very minimal effect on the flaps.

 

Anyway, for city/suburban driving I would take the pros (handling, grip, stability, fun factor) over the cons (NVH) of my setup 750 times out of a thousand. My girlfriend on the other hand might say 500/1000... (She complains about the harsh ride most when she is working on her laptop, which usually is only on long highway trips) On a side note, she bought me 4 potenza R's when one of my tires got slashed in front of her apartment in Southie! So, she actually contributed significantly to the handling prowess of my Leggie!!!

 

 

SO... I hope that helped!