To Keep or To Sell?

[MangoGT]

Gang, stop behaving like SOA

 

The guy clearly showed his car gets little low gas mileage. I can relate since mine does, too. It's hard to blame driver when you cruise at fixed speed and avoid any acceleration and are mindful of throttle tip in, yet still get lousy mpg.

 

(assuming proper inflation, alignment and clean air filter)

 

See... he said 19 mpg @ 55 mph highway driving !!!!!!!

 

Thanks. That 19mpg number is from a dealership test with no radio, no AC. I'm pretty sure Subaru of America told the driver to baby it so they can prove me wrong.

 

After they got the number back, they admitted that it is surprisingly low. But I was reassured that it is "within the standard range of the vehicle."

 

Like someone else said, I would be OK with this kind of mileage if I was driving a nicer, heavier luxury car with AC on full blast. However, I'm babying this trying to get decent mileage and it still sucks.

[MangoGT]

Zing!

 

Seriously, there is nothing that can be done. If you really want to see what's going on, you need to datalog a long trip so that you can see what the AFR is and just how much fuel is being used. I think you will find that it is totally normal.

 

Subaru has checked the air to fuel ratio. It's normal. They agree, there is nothing that can be done.

 

Why is there so much variation with these vehicles, though? There are people on this board that pound on their cars and they get 18mpg city, 25mpg highway.

 

I don't even have room to get above 45 on my daily commute and I can't crack 17mpg. I've tried putting it in sport mode and upshifting as soon as possible. No noticeable difference.

[NYCBRED]

Trade it in for a 2.5i, even though they are not much better.

 

It is the nature of the beast. If gas mileage is your main concern Get a Yaris! :lol:

 

I switched over to a 2.5i from a GT. The MPG averages around 20 MPG combined, but it burns regular, so it does not suck as much.

 

If all you do is commute in your car, then the LGT may be overkill.

 

X

 

 

wow....just this past weekend I did ALOT of driving...I got 25mpg around town and as good as 32mpg on highway, on 87 octane..

 

 

I think you need to trade your GT for a 2.5i

[rao]

Subaru has checked the air to fuel ratio. It's normal. They agree, there is nothing that can be done.

 

Why is there so much variation with these vehicles, though? There are people on this board that pound on their cars and they get 18mpg city, 25mpg highway.

 

I don't even have room to get above 45 on my daily commute and I can't crack 17mpg. I've tried putting it in sport mode and upshifting as soon as possible. No noticeable difference.

 

Who knows. It is possible that you have a fuel leak (that you would probably notice) or a vacuum leak (a small vacuum leak could actually be the culprit and I suspect that your dealer, even though they are in Savoy, they would probably never find). There are a couple of places to look, I'd be eying the T- connector under the intercooler very carefully and ALL of the joints from the airbox to the turbo.

 

Also I assume you had the spark plugs looked at, just for fun.

[Guest]

Rao, to the noobs, what a vacuum leak would do, and how the fact that car operates fine (and without any abnormal noises) can be explained?

 

Interestingly, I am getting somewhat high silicone levels as discovered by UOAs. Intake was checked for leaks (by me and dealer) and nothing was found - suspicison was some unfiltered air gets into the system. Wondering how related that could be.

[MangoGT]

Who knows. It is possible that you have a fuel leak (that you would probably notice) or a vacuum leak (a small vacuum leak could actually be the culprit and I suspect that your dealer, even though they are in Savoy, they would probably never find). There are a couple of places to look, I'd be eying the T- connector under the intercooler very carefully and ALL of the joints from the airbox to the turbo.

 

Also I assume you had the spark plugs looked at, just for fun.

 

Should I ask them to look for a vacuum leak or would they just shrug me off again?

 

I don't think the spark plugs have been checked. Why would that help?

[rao]

Rao, to the noobs, what a vacuum leak would do, and how the fact that car operates fine (and without any abnormal noises) can be explained?

 

Interestingly, I am getting somewhat high silicone levels as discovered by UOAs. Intake was checked for leaks (by me and dealer) and nothing was found - suspicison was some unfiltered air gets into the system. Wondering how related that could be.

 

 

If there is a vacuum leak, there is more air being sucked into the intake then is being measured by the MAF. This causes the mixture to be lean, the ECU will compensate for this using initially short term fuel trim and after a minute or so, long term fuel trim. That means that the injector pulsewidth will be longer then it otherwise would be. the problem with unmetered air is just that, it is unmetered, so it is not predictable - some times it is there, some times it isn't, the amount can vary etc. The quick way to check this is to see what the long tem fuel tirms are - they could be need to get OVER 25% before the ECU reports a fault.

 

A leaking fuel injector would cause the opposite problem, more fuel then needed, but only in one cylinder so the ecu would dial back fuel by about 1/4 of the extra fuel.

 

You can construct lots of possibilities, but the more complex they are the less likely the are to be what is actually happening. A quick once over of the car by someone who knows what they are ding should sort it out once and for all. I am sure ANY Subaru dealer can easily handle that

 

Good luck. To the OP, bring it up here and I will take a look (which won't help at all ) and get about 10 mpg to make you feel better.

[rao]

Should I ask them to look for a vacuum leak or would they just shrug me off again?

 

I don't think the spark plugs have been checked. Why would that help?

 

I am sure they will shrug you off again. If the plugs are really bad that would not help, but they probably are in good condition. Easy enough to check though.

[MangoGT]

If there is a vacuum leak, there is more air being sucked into the intake then is being measured by the MAF. This causes the mixture to be lean, the ECU will compensate for this using initially short term fuel trim and after a minute or so, long term fuel trim. That means that the injector pulsewidth will be longer then it otherwise would be. the problem with unmetered air is just that, it is unmetered, so it is not predictable - some times it is there, some times it isn't, the amount can vary etc. The quick way to check this is to see what the long tem fuel tirms are - they could be need to get OVER 25% before the ECU reports a fault.

 

A leaking fuel injector would cause the opposite problem, more fuel then needed, but only in one cylinder so the ecu would dial back fuel by about 1/4 of the extra fuel.

 

You can construct lots of possibilities, but the more complex they are the less likely the are to be what is actually happening. A quick once over of the car by someone who knows what they are ding should sort it out once and for all. I am sure ANY Subaru dealer can easily handle that

 

Good luck. To the OP, bring it up here and I will take a look (which won't help at all ) and get about 10 mpg to make you feel better.

 

I think I'll be in Chicago in a couple of weeks. We should meet up.

[VTGT]

I agree the LGT sucks in stop and go traffic. When I was stock I averaged 16-17 city and 27-28 highway. When I went stage one I averaged 13-14 city (lots of stop and go) and 23-24 highway.

 

Now at stage two I average 15-18 city(depending on traffic and my foot ) and 26-28 highway.

 

I got over 215 miles on half a tank a few months ago.

[rao]

Let me know when you are going to be up this way.

[MangoGT]

I agree the LGT sucks in stop and go traffic. When I was stock I averaged 16-17 city and 27-28 highway. When I went stage one I averaged 13-14 city (lots of stop and go) and 23-24 highway.

 

Now at stage two I average 15-18 city(depending on traffic and my foot ) and 26-28 highway.

 

I got over 215 miles on half a tank a few months ago.

 

That's what I'm talking about. How can these cars have 8mpg of variation? My 19mpg figure is from a dealership fuel consumption test at 55mph.

[Bear]

I have a 2.5i, and I average about 26mpg. I drive highway and city equally.

[sixTOO]

Is trading in the car really an option? It seems that you'll lose a lot of money (especially if your 05 is not paid off). If you plan to keep the car until you run it into the ground, then you'll probably see savings in the long run (maybe 4 to 6 years after purchase). You're probably going to lose a couple grand on your trade if you decide to switch. Just something to think about...

 

On a side note, I'm getting half decent feul economy with my 5MT 2.5i wagon. I do about 90 city/10 freeway, 75 spirited/25 normal on a regular basis. I get about 360 miles (22.5 MPG) with mainly city driving with constant redlights and traffic. Just took a road trip this past weekend and got 475 miles (29 MPG) out of a tank of gas doing ~80 the entire way with the AC on half of the way......not as good as an Accord, but the 2.5i is still half-decent.

[rao]

People, the OP has a GT, not an i.

[NYCBRED]

People, the OP has a GT, not an i.

 

 

I think we all realize this, but this is a case where us 2.5i ppl can shine...

[MangoGT]

Is trading in the car really an option? It seems that you'll lose a lot of money (especially if your 05 is not paid off). If you plan to keep the car until you run it into the ground, then you'll probably see savings in the long run (maybe 4 to 6 years after purchase). You're probably going to lose a couple grand on your trade if you decide to switch. Just something to think about...

 

On a side note, I'm getting half decent feul economy with my 5MT 2.5i wagon. I do about 90 city/10 freeway, 75 spirited/25 normal on a regular basis. I get about 360 miles (22.5 MPG) with mainly city driving with constant redlights and traffic. Just took a road trip this past weekend and got 475 miles (29 MPG) out of a tank of gas doing ~80 the entire way with the AC on half of the way......not as good as an Accord, but the 2.5i is still half-decent.

 

I realize that I would probably lose some money on a trade, but depending on the cost of the vehicle I could probably end up breaking even. There is a strong possibility that I would save around $1,000/year on fuel with a more efficient vehicle.

 

Glad to hear that you're getting close to 500 miles per tank on the highway. That sounds pretty incredible right about now.

 

I'm not entirely concerned with the financial aspect of burning money on gas. I like having the turbocharger, but I wish there could be some middle ground. 14 miles per gallon feels unreasonably low. Even 18mpg would be an improvement of 64 miles per tank.

[outahere]

.....Interestingly, I am getting somewhat high silicone levels as discovered by UOAs. Intake was checked for leaks (by me and dealer) and nothing was found - suspicison was some unfiltered air gets into the system........

 

Same here. Looking in the service manual it shows that the Crankcase Emissions Control System includes "fresh air inlets" on the valve covers. I wonder if this is the source of silicon.

[sixTOO]

I realize that I would probably lose some money on a trade, but depending on the cost of the vehicle I could probably end up breaking even. There is a strong possibility that I would save around $1,000/year on fuel with a more efficient vehicle.

 

Glad to hear that you're getting close to 500 miles per tank on the highway. That sounds pretty incredible right about now.

 

I'm not entirely concerned with the financial aspect of burning money on gas. I like having the turbocharger, but I wish there could be some middle ground. 14 miles per gallon feels unreasonably low. Even 18mpg would be an improvement of 64 miles per tank.

 

Wow, $1000 a year adds up really quick, especially over the life of the car loan...and possibly the 3 or 4 years after that. Just curious, how long do you intend to keep the vehicle (current vehicle or the one you might buy)?

[rubbercow]

I have three comments regarding your dilemma:

• First, SoA is very difficult to get a response out of regarding poorly performing vehicles. As to be expected they are in it to make a profit and have to shrug off as many unhappy customers as they can. It took them almost a year to buy back my 2005 LGT and only then after I started Lemon Law litigation through my state. Even though I was pretty angry the entire time, I couldn't really blame them. You've stated that SoA is already not being helpful and that you'll never buy another Subaru. To me that is all the answer you need - getting it fixed is highly unlikely, and getting it replaced is a long road for a car you wouldn't buy again if you had a second chance. Get rid of it.
  
• On the other hand I was able to improve the mileage on my BMW M5 from 11.3mpg city to 14mpg by cleaning my MAFs, swapping my o2 sensors and replacing the plugs. I find it very likely that your vehicle is overcompensating for something that the sensors are inaccurately reading. Pull out your plugs, are they wet?
  
• My 2006 stage 2 LGT averages 23mpg hwy and 18mpg city with Mobil1 and Goodyear F1GS tires. I feel your mileage is entirely unreasonable and more along the lines of my 2005. I recommend trading it in on another vehicle, as you'll have a hard time honestly selling the car to an individual after telling them it has some mystical fuel consumption issue.
  

Good luck.

[hogmeat]

if it's a wagon, i'll buy it from you. My hometown is only a few hours away. My wife needs her subie...

[Zoombaru]

I have three comments regarding your dilemma:

• First, SoA is very difficult to get a response out of regarding poorly performing vehicles. As to be expected they are in it to make a profit and have to shrug off as many unhappy customers as they can. It took them almost a year to buy back my 2005 LGT and only then after I started Lemon Law litigation through my state. Even though I was pretty angry the entire time, I couldn't really blame them. You've stated that SoA is already not being helpful and that you'll never buy another Subaru. To me that is all the answer you need - getting it fixed is highly unlikely, and getting it replaced is a long road for a car you wouldn't buy again if you had a second chance. Get rid of it.
  
• On the other hand I was able to improve the mileage on my BMW M5 from 11.3mpg city to 14mpg by cleaning my MAFs, swapping my o2 sensors and replacing the plugs. I find it very likely that your vehicle is overcompensating for something that the sensors are inaccurately reading. Pull out your plugs, are they wet?
  
• My 2006 stage 2 LGT averages 23mpg hwy and 18mpg city with Mobil1 and Goodyear F1GS tires. I feel your mileage is entirely unreasonable and more along the lines of my 2005. I recommend trading it in on another vehicle, as you'll have a hard time honestly selling the car to an individual after telling them it has some mystical fuel consumption issue.

Good luck.

 

I don't think you'll get any better response/advice than this post right here. Especially considering that it's from an individual who's been there.

[deadeye]

HI: I have an 05 GT Limited with auto trans. I have a bout 17K on the odometer.I just drove from NW FL. to Canada and got 25.8 If I get past 75MPH

It drops to about 24.6 Have made the trip 3-4 times and mileage stays at the above figures.I use 89 Octane

 

Hope yours improves..

[red beast]

you need to be going at least 45 mph to get better gas mileage, at least thats the way it is with the 3.0r.

 

 

 

somebody stated ......"at 80 mph+ the injectors are wide open"

 

 

i think the best mileage is at a "Jimmy Carter 55 mph"