Official 08 Spec B thread

[rs6er]

Agreed.

I just sold my A6 and bought a SpecB because the Audis, dealers, parts, etc. are so expensive.

[paycer]

For the buck you get a lot more car for the money with the Subaru.

 

I think you summed up exactly what I found out through all those test drives. I suppose you gotta pay to play and if you wanna drive the fancy stuff, you gotta pay the fancy price for admission and repairs if they happen. Subaru really does have a pretty good thing going for enthusiasts that don't need to have certain "prestige" badges on their cars.

 

BTW, thanks for taking the time to relay your thoughts on the Audis. Now if we could just find some techs for the other cars that compete with the LGT then we would have an excellent reference for car shoppers. Good stuff.

[Vimy101]

Gotta be prepared to pay extra attention to tires with the Subaru AWD system however.

[psi365]

Subaru really does have a pretty good thing going for enthusiasts that don't need to have certain "prestige" badges on their cars.

 

BTW, thanks for taking the time to relay your thoughts on the Audis. Now if we could just find some techs for the other cars that compete with the LGT then we would have an excellent reference for car shoppers. Good stuff.

 

Thats why I really don't understand the lust for the 335i. Yeah the base price isn't that out of reach of the sticker of a fully loaded spec B or 3.0R, but you are still getting the base of that car. Yes I know with a chip you can get around 400hp, but it still isn't awd and more then likely with the chip its going to sit at a dealer some where waiting on a new engine.

 

Well I didn't start out as an Audi tech. About 10 years ago I started out as an apprentice working on Buicks, Eagles, and Jeeps. Stayed there for 2 1/2 years and went to the dealer I currently work at. I used to work on Audis and Porsches, but they split the franchises and I went with Audi. In the next month or so I may be a Porsche tech again, possibly working on Audis at another dealer, or maybe becoming a VW/Subaru tech.

[camber]

Yes I know with a chip you can get around 400hp, but it still isn't awd and more then likely with the chip its going to sit at a dealer some where waiting on a new engine.

 

At my local dyno people with piggybacks(ie. PROcede) on the 335i have been getting so-so results. Usually between 300-320 whp when the piggyback decides to act right, a far cry from what has been advertised(unless we're talking about crank). It still isn't the giant killing power that everyone claims.

 

If we're talking about tuning these respective cars, the Legacy currently has way more potential then the 335i. Also, at much cheaper prices then the Bimmer.

 

I think the spec. B suspension is better then 335 with sport package setup.

 

Unless your driving at +8/10ths with 335 you really won't get any benefit from the stiff suspension and it can only really be used properly on super smooth roads. There is just way too much damping in the sport package to be useful for a quick/fast street setup(at least on Canadian roads). The 335 with sport package does have less body roll then the spec. B. However, the body roll in the spec. B isn't unsettling. Also, you can easily and cheaply tune that body roll out if that is your preference.

 

The 335i reminds me more of an Mercedes AMG car. It's fast but not as fun to drive as some other cars(cough *spec. B* ). Especially, when compared to other 3 series cars that came before it.

[psi365]

To summarize Camber statement

 

335i= poor man's M3

[Vimy101]

^ To further summarize, the Spec.B is a very good car by any standard right out of the box.

[Sponge]

Comparing the 335 to the Spec B is a bit of a stretch when purely looking at price point the 328xi is really the best comparision isn't it?

 

Has anyone driven the new G35 sport 6MT or the IS350/250? The 350 equipped w/the sport suspension and GPS jumps it into the 335 price range...

[paycer]

To summarize Camber statement

 

335i= poor man's M3

 

Really? I have always like the idea of the M3 and always thought I would want one. I've honestly never driven one though and the want/need for AWD (and price!) have kept me from getting too close to one. That 335xi that I drove was not "fun" to drive. I always figured the M would be fun to drive though. Anyone driven an M3 that cares to comment? I suppose you (psi365) meant that those that specifically want only a BMW and can't swing the incredible price of an M3 will settle on the 335, yes? Any M3 driver seat experience out there?

[psi365]

I suppose you (psi365) meant that those that specifically want only a BMW and can't swing the incredible price of an M3 will settle on the 335, yes? Any M3 driver seat experience out there?

 

In a way I was saying that. I was also meaning that the 335i performs a lot like the older 00< M3, not the newest one coming out. I guess I was never really impressed by BMW. The only one I kinda lust after other then a Z8 is a 00< M5.However high hp and rwd don't work well for year round daily driver in the Chicago area. If I could get away with that I would have bought a ton of other cars.

[camber]

E46 M3 is a great driving car!

 

A bit expensive if all you care about is sheer performance numbers. Makes a great daily driver with sport car like performance right out of the box.

 

Although, the M3 drives nothing like the 335i. They generate speed in different ways. I really enjoy the way the M3 goes about being fast.

 

The next generation M3(E92 M3) has been getting good reviews. Although, some journalists have said BMW numbed up the car a bit in the quest for performance numbers. I hope BMW didn't do the same thing to the latest M3 as they did with the 335.

 

The car I'm really interested in is the 135i. The older and smaller 3 series were great fun to drive and hopefully with the 1 series BMW can resurrect some original 3 series essence.

[SUBE555]

I like how everyone can knock certain cars because it just doesn't serve their purposes well.

 

I really wasn't interested in the M3 when I looked at the 335. I have driven an E36 and an E46 M3, liked both, but neither were exactly what I was looking for. One of the big uses of the 335 for me is a good long-distance car that is comfortable, efficient, and still can put on some good moves, the 335 does that well. I'm sure I would have been happy with the Spec B, but unlike a lot of peoples claims why it wouldn't work for them (winter performance), its not a requirement to some people, I have more than one vehicle for that. So RWD is just fine for some of us (heck my winter car is now a FWD car with dedicated snows and it does just fine in the white stuff.)

 

When I was in the process of choosing a new performance sedan it came down to the Spec B or 335. I was looking at what level of performance I desired and the 335 was pretty close to spec on . As camber said it generates the speed in different ways than the M3 and it surely does, it is almost like having a small block V8 in there with how torque is generated and when but a good deal more efficient. To get the same out of the Spec B I would have had to spend just as much between the car and mods, now forget about any warranty and the value of the vehicle is a good deal lower too. Besides, I don't have the time for racing any more and when I do I'd rather just hit up a good road trip. I also looked a bit at the latest Audi S4, but was very unimpressed with the efficiency of the engine, its extra heft, and the entry price being in excess of $10k more. I also had knocked the IS350 off my list as I really wanted a manual and they don't offer one. The G35 just hasn't ever really impressed me visually inside or out.

 

Just remember people because this may not be the car for you doesn't mean it isn't a good car. I know it isn't the best at probably anything, but it does lots of things quite well, call it a jack of all trades of sort. It's taken me a few thousand miles to really get used to driving it, but I personally have really been enjoying it.

[jwho]

Hmmmm.... 335i is a better car than Spec B, but they are in different price ranges.

 

If you have $30K to $35K to spend, the Spec B is very competitive with other models in the same price range.

 

If you have $40k to $45K to spend.... there really is nothing better than the 335i in terms of the whole package. I would rather have a 335i over an IS350 for sure.

 

I didn't want to spend that much on a car, so the Spec B fits me well.

 

Oh, and tuning wise... throw the same amount of money in both cars, and the bigger displacement car (w/ forced induction) will usually still end up with more power.

[SUBE555]

I looked at overall money spent and value coming back out, each in the end would cost similar for the level I wanted, so entry price was neither here nor there, but the value after modding was definitely not a plus including the warranty when I do not desire to really do any tuning with the 335i.

 

One thing to note is while the BMW is more to tune for those who decide to go that route, the direct fuel injection system will probably be more costly to upgrade as I'm not even sure if anyone as of yet is producing upgraded injectors or what the range they have on them is. But for people like me who don't really plan on modding, not an issue.

[Vimy101]

^ You don't seem to understand. You don't have AWD and that has to be the single biggest issue when discussing platforms when it gets down to it. You really should head to A RWD forum. The LGT/Spec.B is the best AWD value in the world.

[BENCOB]

+1

[DukeTrout]

Comparing the 335 to the Spec B is a bit of a stretch when purely looking at price point the 328xi is really the best comparision isn't it?

 

Has anyone driven the new G35 sport 6MT or the IS350/250? The 350 equipped w/the sport suspension and GPS jumps it into the 335 price range...

 

I test drove both before buying the spec.B. The G35 looks very good - in pictures. Strangely, it doesn't look nearly as good on the street. The IS is actually a much better looking car. Too bad it is only available in an auto. That was the deal killer for me. The G also surprises one in person with the drive. It feels heavy, and it's not much heavier than the spec.B, which feels light as a feather. Some folks might like that, but for all its body roll (stock;)), the spec.B feels much more confident in turns. The G is nerve-wracking. It's less settled in the corners. The IS350 is actually really nice - slap AWD and a smooth 6MT on it, and it would be delicious.Oh, then it would be a spec.B...

 

I haven't driven the 335, but for all the pokes you can take at it, it is still going to be heads above the G and IS. The IS might be close, with the right suspension, and built engine parts to give it another 1000 RPM functional range.

[Vimy101]

Except for the final drive, the Spec.B doesn't need a 6mt. However, I think a 6mt in Chicagoland expressway rush hour would be fun to try.

 

In those conditions, I use first mainly to get the car rolling. Second I use from slow to 20mph. Third for 20-30. Fourth for 30+ changing to 5th @ 40 if all I'm really doing is power coasting. All this is done with a very, very light throttle to avoid lugging.

 

A 6mt would give me more combinations for slow, go, slow, go, slow, stop, go, slow, slow, 20, slow, go, 30, powercoast, slow, etc..

 

Otherwise, I'm at 80 in third gear while acellerating hard, 4th while power manouvering and 5th for cruise and high speed manouvering.

 

My mpg is currntly 27.3 as per info system.

[SubieDriver]

- slap AWD and a smooth 6MT on it, and it would be delicious. Oh, then it would be a spec.B...

 

:lol:

[psi365]

I like how everyone can knock certain cars because it just doesn't serve their purposes well.

 

I really wasn't interested in the M3 when I looked at the 335. I have driven an E36 and an E46 M3, liked both, but neither were exactly what I was looking for. One of the big uses of the 335 for me is a good long-distance car that is comfortable, efficient, and still can put on some good moves, the 335 does that well. I'm sure I would have been happy with the Spec B, but unlike a lot of peoples claims why it wouldn't work for them (winter performance), its not a requirement to some people, I have more than one vehicle for that. So RWD is just fine for some of us (heck my winter car is now a FWD car with dedicated snows and it does just fine in the white stuff.)

 

Sorry, but every where there is any sort of car post the 335i comes out like its been touched by the hand of god. Especially on Subaru forums a 335i can not do any wrong even though they have had a lot of powertrain failures. In the "If subie brought out the LSTi for under $40k would you buy one" thread a large number of people said no cause they'd just buy a 335i. I guess I don't understand the people on here that well yet cause I bought a LGT because I wanted a dependable year round car. I was sick of driving beaters in the winter and my nice car only once in awhile on weekends. If you have the coin to be able to do that, more power to you. I don't. I needed something that has good power and can be driven through the snow without any drama. I could have bought a ton of cars that are more of what I wanted, but they didn't fit what I need.

[SubieDriver]

For me, BMWs are too pretentious. I know too many people that bought them for the name, not for anything they can do. They've become a status symbol, and I don't like status symbols.

 

I prefer the "walk softly but carry a big stick" theme of Subaru. They are understated cars that perform, and perform well, in all conditions. They get the job done, and do it reliably (reliably being the key word).

[paycer]

For me, BMWs are too pretentious. I know too many people that bought them for the name, not for anything they can do. They've become a status symbol, and I don't like status symbols.

 

I prefer the "walk softly but carry a big stick" theme of Subaru. They are understated cars that perform, and perform well, in all conditions. They get the job done, and do it reliably (reliably being the key word).

 

 

Well said. BMWs used to be the Subarus of the german car world before the yuppies got ahold of them back in the mid-eighties. Before that, they were kinda quirky and a fun and reliable alternative to boring Mercedes.

 

Nowadays, because those 80's yuppies turned them into status symbols, the price has inflated dramatically and the car has been numbed down to suit those kind of drivers (er, operators of the driving controls). Case in point, my local BMW dealer told me they will never get any stick shift BMWs unless the customer orders it that way. Wanna test drive one? Fuhgetabout it! I asked why and was told that it was resale value. I guessed that people that paid the admission price for one didn't want to be bothered with shifting. The dealer has an M5 and M6 sitting back to back and both are freaking automatics!

 

I've looked very hard to find a viable alternative for my wife's expiring Forester XT lease. So as not to look like a Subie zealot, we drove and researched all the alternatives that fit my wife's guidelines.

 

Subaru's magic is that it offers an enthusiast a reliable, practical (4 doors), relatively inexpensive, sporting car that can be used 24/7 by 365 (366 on leap years ). A bonus is that these cars can be easily modified into near supercar performance at the owner's whim.

 

You know what we discovered?

 

Not one other manufacturer offers all of those things in one of their current offerings. NONE.

[camber]

When I was in the process of choosing a new performance sedan it came down to the Spec B or 335. I was looking at what level of performance I desired and the 335 was pretty close to spec on . As camber said it generates the speed in different ways than the M3 and it surely does, it is almost like having a small block V8 in there with how torque is generated and when but a good deal more efficient. To get the same out of the Spec B I would have had to spend just as much between the car and mods, now forget about any warranty and the value of the vehicle is a good deal lower too.

 

Modding a LGT or spec. B to be faster then a 335 would not cost more then the price differential between the two cars that have similar equpment.

 

Also, you forgetting to make the 335 handle as well in turns as the spec. B you would have to get an LSD and shocks. Which would teminate your powertrain and suspension warranty with BMW. I couldn't stand spinning on rear wheel as I went around turns and kidney killing overdamped rock hard sport suspension that only can be used on super smooth roads.

 

As nice as some people say the N54 engine is and how it has torque everywhere it does not have great part throttle acceleration. I noticed this during both of my test drives and feelings I got during those test drives were backed up in 30-70 mph acceleration tests of 335 I have read in reviews. The 335 falls behind the naturally aspirated Infiniti G and IS350 in tests(like the 30-70 mph test) where it's turbos are not fully spooled.

 

IMO 335 is a total depature for BMW and if it was not for the cheap interior materials and bad interior design it would have felt more like an Mercedes AMG car.

[Sponge]

In the case of the M5 and M6 auto (can remember what they call it) vs. manual if you were to drive both you'd get the auto. I have ridden in both (my boss has a new M5) and the car was designed with that auto in mind and not the manual. The manual they offer is far less of a driving experience than that of their auto. It drives and shifts like a manual...for another thread though.

 

Sorry for the off topic

[psi365]

(can remember what they call it)

 

SMG