hogmeat Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 please, please don't take this the wrong way - but Shortbus, you were suckered. Hook, Line AND Sinker! All you drove was a standard SpecB on a fresh ECU reset. Why do you think it was such controlled conditions? I 100% promise you there will NOT be a fix that will take care of this problem. Look - the 05's are worse - where is their fix? Exactly. It won't be fixed - trade it off if it's that bad. My 06 does stutter, but not bad enough for concern. ECU resets make it buttery smooth for a day or so... I'm pleasantly surprised... It was most certainly worth the couple bucks and 10 mins of my time. CLICK HERE FOR THE HOGZAUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrunone Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 GOT AN EMAIL BACK!! WOOOO SOMEONE ADMITS THE PROBLEM!!! Case #1016687 if you're interested Hi Mr. *******, Thank you for your recent e-mail to Subaru of America, Inc. We appreciate you taking the time to contact us. We are sorry to learn of the concerns you are experiencing with your 2007 Subaru Legacy Spec B. After reviewing your e-mail, I contacted our Technical Services Department. I am being advised that Subaru is aware of these concerns. They explained that this is a normal operating characteristic of the vehicle and we are currently reviewing this concern. Unfortunately, there is no timeline regarding when, or if, there will be a correction made available. I called Subaru of Gwinnett in an effort to speak with Scott Siegel and obtain some information regarding what the tune up he mentioned to you entails. I was advised that Scott no longer works at the dealership. At this point, we would suggestion that you touch base with the dealer when you visit them for maintenance. If there are any suggested or recommended corrections, the appropriate information will be provided to every Subaru dealership. You can also feel free to contact me as I would be happy to provide you with information regarding any updates that become available. If you have any further questions, or should you need any additional assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us again. Thank you for the opportunity to be of service. Best wishes, ********* Subaru of America, Inc. Customer/Dealer Services e-Contact Group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 GOT AN EMAIL BACK!! WOOOO SOMEONE ADMITS THE PROBLEM!!! They explained that this is a normal operating characteristic of the vehicle This is not progress. That is the first, and likely last time I'll ever use that smiley. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrunone Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 This is not progress. That is the first, and likely last time I'll ever use that smiley. I think, by that, they meant that my car isn't "broken," it's a design flaw. At least they're aware of it, is all. I'm trying to get the lady to call Scott Siegel or Will at SoG to verify the problem and maybe help them out a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 I think, by that, they meant that my car isn't "broken," it's a design flaw. At least they're aware of it, is all. I'm trying to get the lady to call Scott Siegel or Will at SoG to verify the problem and maybe help them out a bit. Hopefully that is the case. I guess its better than nothing. My hopes are still pretty high... between Cobb and Subaru I think our studder will be nullified soon. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallysquirrel Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Subaru will probably just end up killing the power on the car to make it "smooth", so you'll end up with less power than before. My $.02 I'm just saving some cash for a tune. With the aftermarket downpipe, "the dip" is half what it used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrunone Posted July 14, 2007 Share Posted July 14, 2007 Subaru will probably just end up killing the power on the car to make it "smooth", so you'll end up with less power than before. My $.02 I'm just saving some cash for a tune. With the aftermarket downpipe, "the dip" is half what it used to be. Oh if I had cash, I'd do that stuff instantly. But I don't, and I have the 100k mile bumper to bumper warranty, so I'm not sure I want to mess with that when I dont have the cash to replace a busted non-warranty engine or trans. I'm rooting for Subaru. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannis Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 .... My hopes are still pretty high... between Cobb and Subaru I think our studder will be nullified soon. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannis Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Subaru will probably just end up killing the power on the car to make it "smooth", so you'll end up with less power than before. My $.02 I'm just saving some cash for a tune. With the aftermarket downpipe, "the dip" is half what it used to be. Well it's still gonna be fast enough for me. Even if I get a reflash from Subaru I'm almost positive I'll eventually go stage 2 or do a cobb ap anyways. So basically I'd be fine with a smooth ride and a cut of about 5 hp for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannis Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 please, please don't take this the wrong way - but Shortbus, you were suckered. Hook, Line AND Sinker! All you drove was a standard SpecB on a fresh ECU reset. Why do you think it was such controlled conditions? I 100% promise you there will NOT be a fix that will take care of this problem. Look - the 05's are worse - where is their fix? Exactly. It won't be fixed - trade it off if it's that bad. My 06 does stutter, but not bad enough for concern. ECU resets make it buttery smooth for a day or so... does this make any sense? A day or so? then what? little gremlins come and reflash it back the way it was 24 hours prior? I'm confused... or maybe I'm just feeding the troll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bms231 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 does this make any sense? A day or so? then what? little gremlins come and reflash it back the way it was 24 hours prior? I'm confused... or maybe I'm just feeding the troll... the ecu is a learning computer. reset it, it smooths out while learning the can go back to old habbits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylvainsf Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I'm sorry but we're not talking about a labrador peeing on the carpet. We're talking about a computer, a fairly simple one with a finite number of parameters. IF I had the new canbus cable I could do the datalogging myself and determine the exact cause of the hesitation. It is NOT some impossible thing for them to fix like a gremlin or a psychological problem! To say anything like that without FACTS to back it up is simply ignorant. I would put my money on the problem being fuel delivery problem (most likely flooding) from 100% wastegate duty cycle to 0% when going WOT. ie: at 2k rpms you floor it. The wastegate closes to begin spooling up the turbo. At ~2500 rpms the turbo has spooled and power starts to be delivered, however the fuel is still at pre-boost levels (ie slightly lean, I'm guessing at 13:1 ratio), then at 3k rpms the ECU starts to deliver boost levels of fuel but dumps TOO MUCH at the beginning causing the engine to bog till the RPMS/air flow reach a point that can use that level of fuel. This kinda problem can be simply fixed by granularly increasing the fuel delivery in a more progressive ramp. Even if the problem is something totally different, the same logic can be applied to find and fix it. the ecu is a learning computer. reset it, it smooths out while learning the can go back to old habbits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartg Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Subaru should just buy a cobb stage 0 map and distribute it to all the dealers to flash. More power, better fuel economy and no studder. Problem solved. I have never understood why, with so much r&d that goes into factory vehicles, that they cannot have a professional tune the cars for a decent factory map. Seems like almost any consumer vehicle you can buy these days can get better economy and 30 - 50 hp out of a stock tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirsimon Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 ^ Yeah, I agree, but you've got to figure they try to tune it so that Jed can put 87 octane in it and that sort of thing. They probably try to tune them for the "lowest common denominator", if you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmeat Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 They probably try to tune them for the "lowest common denominator", if you know what I mean. I'm insulted by that. I'm pleasantly surprised... It was most certainly worth the couple bucks and 10 mins of my time. CLICK HERE FOR THE HOGZAUST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartg Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 So sense that the gas is bad and switch to a different map with retarded timing and low boost, throw a cel and the dealer can tell "the lowest common denominator" that they f'd up, then flag then to deny engine warranty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannis Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 What's the wait exactly for a re-flash now from Cobb or another aftermarket company? (i.e. Why won't the '06 AP work?) Is it because of SI-Drive? Also, does anyone know how a AP will affect SI-drive? Will it just change one of the settings (e.g. S# mode) or do you think it will be able to input a different map for all three modes? Or will it just input one map and essentially "get rid of" SI-drive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartg Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 The hold up is making canbus compatible ecu tuners for the 07 lgt and all 08+ models. All 3 of those options you presented are possible, I don't think Cobb or ECUtek have confirmed which route they will be taking. Cobb does say the Si-drive is causing a bit of a hold up and they want to be able to fully understand and utilize it. Personally I think thats just blowing smoke to buy time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallysquirrel Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 I understood it as the ECUtek will keep the SI functional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernely Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 The hold up is making canbus compatible ecu tuners for the 07 lgt and all 08+ models. All 3 of those options you presented are possible, I don't think Cobb or ECUtek have confirmed which route they will be taking. Cobb does say the Si-drive is causing a bit of a hold up and they want to be able to fully understand and utilize it. Personally I think thats just blowing smoke to buy time. Link to Dynotune. Ben from ECUtek is ready to do 07 and 08 with full si-drive functionality it seems unfortunately they cannot get 4 stinking folks to go get this done in the northeast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrunone Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 The hold up is making canbus compatible ecu tuners for the 07 lgt and all 08+ models. All 3 of those options you presented are possible, I don't think Cobb or ECUtek have confirmed which route they will be taking. Cobb does say the Si-drive is causing a bit of a hold up and they want to be able to fully understand and utilize it. Personally I think thats just blowing smoke to buy time. I read on the Cobb forums that they figured out the SI-drive, and it's not that complicated, and they plan on using it. The problem is, SI-drive is stupid. Your "performance" map will be the same as your "economy" map, as long as you stay off of the throttle. The only good use for SI-drive that I can think of is making the 3 settings "race gas" "pump gas" and "meth." That would be hella cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 The only good use for SI-drive that I can think of is making the 3 settings "race gas" "pump gas" and "meth." Yes I think that's the whole point of it. And I'd like to see the I-mode shift light at redline in sport sharp lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator GT Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Yes I think that's the whole point of it. And I'd like to see the I-mode shift light at redline in sport sharp I like that idea on the shift light, but make it user adjustable thru the AP. "If we are to guard against ignorance and remain free, it is the responsibility of every American to be informed." - T. Jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrunone Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Gah. Got an email back, but it's just what I expected. Hi Mr. ******, Thank you for your continued patience. I contacted Subaru of Gwinnett and spoke with Wil in Subaru Service. Wil explained that the 'tune up' the dealer mentioned is an reflash of the ECU using aftermarket data and parts. We do NOT recommend that this be performed on your vehicle. Subaru of America does not test nor research aftermarket products. Installing an aftermarket product may affect your warranty; but only on related failures. Any problems caused by the installation or performance of an aftermarket product will not be covered by the warranties on your Subaru. Again, our Technical Services Department has advised that they are looking into this concern. I apologize that I was not able to provide you with the response you may have anticipated. If you have any additional questions, please feel free to contact us again. Best wishes, ****** Subaru of America, Inc. Customer/Dealer Services e-Contact Group Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrunone Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Just got back from the dealership for an oil change (Johnny's Subaru of Charleston). It was funny, when I rocked up in the SpecB a salesman was right next to me and was like "PLEASE tell me you want to trade that in for something!" haha. Anyway, I talked to the guy about the "dip" problem. Took him for a test drive and he was like "yeah I've heard of this but never felt it, but it's def there." SoA was closed cause it was after 5pm, but my service report says: "Customer states near WOT between 3000-4000rpm it stutters bad. Problem duplicated. Will be in contact after further investigating and contacting Subaru tech line." The guy was real cool too. So there's another one that SoA knows about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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