cannis Posted July 9, 2007 Share Posted July 9, 2007 It seems that with an aftermarket downpipe there is much less of "the dip". Any one else with aftermarket downpipe notice the same. I'm sure that it varies by the type of products, and I can't speak for the downpipe. But, I recently installed the Xo2 Racing CBE (3" midpipe to 2.5" Y pipes and exhaust), and the "dip" is worse. Now it's downright awful and literally jerks the car forward when the power surge resumes after ~1 second. Basically it prevents me from driving it hard in certain gear ranges. I rarely put it into S# mode now because it's less noticeable in Sport mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernely Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I have an 08 spec B and am having the same hesitation issues. It really surprised me the first time it did it. As soon as i get a chance I'll go to one of my local dealers and document the problem. Does not bother me too much as I very rarely get on the throttle much. I have had the car a week and have logged 800 miles so far. once I go past the 1000 mile mark I'll do a few real hard pulls and see if the car adapts to the aggressive driving. I'll keep you all posted as it seems most of the people on here are talking about the 07. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inprogress Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Im not sure if this has already been covered, but I have a 07 GT and it also has a pretty bad studder, does this apply to the 2.5GT's too? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikefoy6 Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I have an 08 spec B and am having the same hesitation issues. It really surprised me the first time it did it. As soon as i get a chance I'll go to one of my local dealers and document the problem. Does not bother me too much as I very rarely get on the throttle much. I have had the car a week and have logged 800 miles so far. once I go past the 1000 mile mark I'll do a few real hard pulls and see if the car adapts to the aggressive driving. I'll keep you all posted as it seems most of the people on here are talking about the 07. I have an 08 Spec.B that is just over the 1000 mile mark, after a couple hard pulls i noticed the same dip / hesitation around 3-4k RPMs. My STi never did anything like that and it is definately not "driver error". I know what turbo lag is, and this is NOT it. Cant help but be a little dissapointed. Hopefully the reflash will be for the 08s too! Shortbus- any news??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrunone Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I just sent an email to SoA, and am awaiting a reply. Here it is: Dear Subaru of America, I purchased a 2007 Legacy Spec.B about 6 weeks ago. For the entire time I have owned it, I have noticed a sort of hesitation in high-throttle situations. Especially in the 3-4k rpm range, the car feels like it severely retards the timing for a split second, then recovers. In other words, the acceleration is not smooth, there is a jerkiness that should not be there. The problem is very consistent and very reproducible in all SI-drive modes and all gears. I spoke to Scott Siegel, who is VERY experienced with tuning Subaru cars, at Subaru of Gwinnett in Atlanta, and he told me that almost every 2007 STI and Legacy GT has this “stutter” problem. He said that it is purely a cause of poor ECU logic. Indeed, the 2 brand-new STI’s that I test drove had the same stutter problem as well. Scott told me that every 07 STI that he has professionally tuned has been buttery smooth afterward, with no sign of any hesitation, jerkiness, or stutter. However, I do not want to have Scott tune my car, for fear of voiding part of my warranty. I feel like I bought a $32k car that does not perform as it is supposed to. Many other people in the Legacy GT community have reported the same problem; see case #989441, for example. I hope that Subaru of America is aware of this problem and will release a reflash to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rallysquirrel Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 I sent in an email as well. We'll see what they have to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BACK IN BLACK Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Thanks for the info for Atlanta. I use Subaru of Gwinnett and will be calling today to "get on the list". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrunone Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Thanks for the info for Atlanta. I use Subaru of Gwinnett and will be calling today to "get on the list". Just FYI, Scott Siegel has since left SoG. He has gone to a non-dealer performance shop in Atlanta (where his tuning has gone up to $157/hr grrrr), so you won't be able to use him as a resource anymore, at least in this fight. But he was at SoG when I bought my car, which is why I mentioned him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartg Posted July 10, 2007 Share Posted July 10, 2007 Has anyone had a reply yet? I sent a second one today since I have not heard back from my original submission. I could not make it to the dealer today for inspection and I won't be able to any time this week. I'm glad several people are sending emails and visiting dealers. Hopefully this will help to expedite a fix. I know we don't want to put full names and vins on the forum, but if I created a form offsite to collect a official list of affected customers and vins which we could submit to SoA would you guys used it? The form would only ask for your name and vin, and would only display a running total of the number of entries, it would not display any names or vins, the information would only be collected and stored in a database for the sole purpose of submitting the affected vehicles to SoA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 My 08 LGT is going in Saturday for warranty work and I also asked about the "dip" problem. He did admit there was/is a problem with 06 and 07 models but he will check for a new ECU flash while my car is there. Plus he told me not to believe the things I read online... You are all liars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I emailed SOA tonight. We'll see if I get a reply tomorrow. Hello ****, Thank you very much for your help with the SPT performance parts. I also have another question about my new 08 Subaru Legacy GT. There seems to be some sort of hesitation or power dip if you will in the 3000 RPM through ~4000 RPM range where the car has a loss of power and has a stuttering effect. Power delivery in that range is not smooth. This happens in all SI modes. I can actually watch the RPM needle do a slight "ping pong" effect all throughout that range. After climbing to ~4500 RPM's the power delivery is smooth again. I can tell you that this is not turbo lag. I traded in a Bi-Turbo Audi S4 for the Subaru so I am very familiar with turbo engines. It is my understanding that 06 and 07 models also had this problem and to my knowledge there was never a fix for it as of yet. There are no trouble codes in the OBD system. I have been in touch with many other Subaru enthusiasts who have also encountered this issue. Please see case #989441 as an example. That case represents an 07 Spec.B Legacy with the same problem. I have contacted my dealer for an oil change on Saturday along with a few warranty repairs and I mentioned this to him. When I mentioned this problem to the dealer he said that he did have some knowledge of 06 and 07 "stuttering" problems and that he would check to see if there was a new ECU flash available. Could you tell me if there is any information regarding an update for this problem? My VIN is 4S3BL676********* Thank you for your help, Carter ******** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartg Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Well, if you guys want to collect a list of members with the studder issue that we can submit to SoA, I have created a simple form here (http://www.kristys.net/stewart/studder). Just enter your first and last name and your vin number. There is a running total of the number of vins recorded at the bottom of the page. I will not distribute the information unless either I am directly submitting it to SoA or another member with an open complaint wishes for a copy while talking with SoA. I will never publish the list here or anywhere on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Well, if you guys want to collect a list of members with the studder issue that we can submit to SoA, I have created a simple form here (http://www.kristys.net/stewart/studder). Just enter your first and last name and your vin number. There is a running total of the number of vins recorded at the bottom of the page. I will not distribute the information unless either I am directly submitting it to SoA or another member with an open complaint wishes for a copy while talking with SoA. I will never publish the list here or anywhere on the internet. Your page has a database error my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I recieved a prompt reply from SOA. Here is what they said. Although in the first paragraph I think he thinks I already have SPT parts on my vehicle which I dont. Hello Carter: You are welcome. I am sorry to learn of this concern with the SPT performance parts and the performance of your 2008 Legacy 2.5GT Sedan. We do appreciate that you brought them to our attention. Your feedback will be noted in our Customer/Dealer Services database. We use such information to contiually track, review and consider the performance of our products, always with the intentions of improving upon them. We hope to continually improve our products and appreciate you bringing this concern and information to our attention. I am sorry, as we are not at the liberty to discuss any other customer's case and concerns. While we do relate cases internally to become aware of recurring concerns, we cannot discuss these cases with other customers due to privacy regulations. I do hope that you can understand this position. I am glad to hear that you have contacted your dealer about these concerns and will have your vehicle inspected for this concern and hopefully your dealer will rectify these concerns. We will follow-up with your dealer early next week to discuss this situation and what is being done with regards to rectifying the concern. Thank you for the time and efforts you have taken to bring this to our attention. Sincerely, **** ****** Subaru of America My reply ****, Thanks again for the prompt reply. I just want to make it clear that my car is completely stock with no SPT parts or anything else added what so ever. I understand that you cant discuss other customers cases, but can you tell me if there are any documented problems concerning the power loss/stutter with the Legacy GT? Thanks Carter At this point I called Subaru and spoke to someone higher up. I wanted to get more than one opinion. The person I spoke with documented the problem and will be following up with me on Monday after my car has been at the dealer on Saturday. After speaking on the phone, I got this email. Hello Carter: You are welcome. I am very sorry for misreading your message. That's what I get for taking a day off!!! Ironically, I just got a call from ******, who you spoke with this morning, about your concern. He did not mention that it was you that he was speaking with. Then, I come upon your message below and checked with ******. He then advised me that he spoke with you. ****** is researching this with our Technical Services Department. ****** will also follow-up with your dealer next week. ****** is in a different position in the Customer/Dealer Services Department than myself. Actually, I am the one that is different. He is in a much better position to be of assistance to you. Thanks for your patience with me Carter! I do appreciate it and I do hope that this concern is resolved by your dealer this weekend. Please be sure to keep ****** advised, which you can certainly feel free to do through me. Sincerely, **** ****** Subaru of America Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartg Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Omg. I didn't want to set up a new database so I just created a table in tempdb and apparently it got deleted . It now has a new database with permanent storage. I knew I should have just used xml in the first place. When I checked last night around 1 am there were 7 entries, sorry to all, but you will have to re-enter your vins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernely Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Submmited my vin. When I get the chance I'll stop by a Dealer and make it official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbrunone Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Well, if you guys want to collect a list of members with the studder issue that we can submit to SoA, I have created a simple form here (http://www.kristys.net/stewart/studder). Just enter your first and last name and your vin number. There is a running total of the number of vins recorded at the bottom of the page. I will not distribute the information unless either I am directly submitting it to SoA or another member with an open complaint wishes for a copy while talking with SoA. I will never publish the list here or anywhere on the internet. I recommend starting a new thread with this link, to make it more visible to others on the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fonts Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I'm also experiencing the same issue but live in Canada. I'm sure that Subaru Canada will feed me the same line of BS. Has anybody filed the same studdering complaint in Canada?? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartg Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 Submmited my vin. When I get the chance I'll stop by a Dealer and make it official. Right now I have it so a VIN can only be entered once. Maybe I should allow for updating the case number though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartg Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I recommend starting a new thread with this link, to make it more visible to others on the forum. Sounds good, just wanted to see if you guys thought it was a good idea and would use it. I will make the case number update tonight before I post a new thread so we don't experience new problems like when the db got deleted It is hosted on one of my production db servers though, so it gets backed up nightly with offsite backups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted July 11, 2007 Share Posted July 11, 2007 I recommend starting a new thread with this link, to make it more visible to others on the forum. I agree, and it would be nice if it could be stickied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartg Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 New thread started at http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1261130 Sorry ShortBus, I really didn't mean to steal your thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortBus Posted July 12, 2007 Author Share Posted July 12, 2007 No worries man, The more info, and the more action, the better. Rock out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psi365 Posted July 12, 2007 Share Posted July 12, 2007 With only a little over 600 miles on my 08 spec B I think I am experiencing what you guys are talking about. I haven't really noticed/paid attention to the exact rpm range it seems to happen, but it seems to happen more on hot days, moderate acceleration, usually in S mode (don't really put it in S# as of yet for the engine break in period), and in 1-2 shift and 2-3 shift. The car almost feels completely gutless in first and second gears. I've got plenty of turbod car experience, but I gotta say sometimes the performance of this car is disappointiong. It almost feels like the car is getting a false overboost signal. I know I am usng the correct octane gas (93 either BP or SHell) and vary were I get gas from. I let a few others that have turbod car expereince drive my car and thye seem to have a hard time making smooth shifts/accelerations in the car too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter Posted July 13, 2007 Share Posted July 13, 2007 With only a little over 600 miles on my 08 spec B I think I am experiencing what you guys are talking about. I haven't really noticed/paid attention to the exact rpm range it seems to happen, but it seems to happen more on hot days, moderate acceleration, usually in S mode (don't really put it in S# as of yet for the engine break in period), and in 1-2 shift and 2-3 shift. The car almost feels completely gutless in first and second gears. I've got plenty of turbod car experience, but I gotta say sometimes the performance of this car is disappointiong. It almost feels like the car is getting a false overboost signal. I know I am usng the correct octane gas (93 either BP or SHell) and vary were I get gas from. I let a few others that have turbod car expereince drive my car and thye seem to have a hard time making smooth shifts/accelerations in the car too. You're using better than the correct gas, as am I. the GT only requires 91 Octane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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