Toyota cleared to buy Subaru

[one69chev]

maybe they think americans will buy anything.....but what is happening is that they can't rely solely on brand loyalty anymore......

[Whitestar Pilot]

Toyota catered to the enthuisiast more than Subaru does. most likely it's due to the fact that Toyota can afford to.

 

By that I mean you can have TRD parts installed by a stealership and still maintain factory warranty.

 

Yes, the 90's Supra DESTROYED all the other twin-turbo rivals. Blew their doors off. Even now a low-mileage vintage TT Supra commands a hefty price... if you can find one.

 

But about that TRD stuff...

 

I see those stickers on Toyota trucks and on the windshields of Celicas, and I just don't like it, because its too close to spelling out the word "TURD" on your vehicle.

 

I liked Pontiac's performance brand better- SLP. At least that could stand for "SLIP" or something more acceptable to associate with your car.

[Sargeant_002]

Hey, maybe they'll have a Legacy in NASCAR in a few years, yee-haw.

 

LOFL!!! AWD Turbo for the win, or RWD kits soon to follow for our Leggies!!!

 

I don't see this a bad thing, I can't imagine Toyota would want to re-invent Subaru, if they really wanted to do that, they would have put more AWD in their OWN lineup. I had a Corolla S before this, so I'm still alittle biased...

 

All in all, Toyota is a VERY successful company...and as stated before, mo' money for Subie would be a good thing...and maybe Toyota could take a lesson from STi and improve their TRD offerings...haha...

 

Time will tell...

 

Brian-

[Hokiebird]

Yes, the 90's Supra DESTROYED all the other twin-turbo rivals. Blew their doors off. Even now a low-mileage vintage TT Supra commands a hefty price... if you can find one.

 

I liked Pontiac's performance brand better- SLP. At least that could stand for "SLIP" or something more acceptable to associate with your car.

 

I would say there a handful of 90's cars that could hang with the Supra at the track, but if you are looking for a dyno queen on a stock bottom end then you are absolutely correct. Supras maintain an unreasonably high resale value because they are a bandwagon car. Much like how a rusted pos 240sx is going for about 3 times the price it would have 5 years ago.

 

SLP (Street Legal Performance) is an indepented business. They have done some models for Pontiac like the Firehawk and WS6, but they aren't actually related to GM. They even sell Mustang parts. In theory Pontiac was suppose to me GM's performance division

[LongHiway]

Just how profitable is Subaru?

 

You can look and form your own opinion (see URL below). It's not quite a simple binary decision as in "Profitable" Y/N.

 

They have been profitable for the last 5 years and, profits that any of us would take home.

 

But, they've had negative cash flow for 3 of those 5 years. I did not look carefully enough to find details but, re-tooling manufacturing capacity is expensive. That's a reason to find partners for smaller scale companies if, that's what this is really all about.

 

I casually looked at the balance sheet. (compare this to Ford or, GM). They do have a lot of inventory compared to Toyota (3 X).

 

Return on Stockholder Equity is at 4 going to 3. That kinda sucks in you are a shareholder and, restricts how FHI would go about financing longer term assets.

 

 

http://www.fhi.co.jp/about/english/index.html

[SLegacy99]

 

Toyota gets batteries, Subaru gets Diesel engines.

 

 

So why develop batteries and not use them. I gotta believe that cost alot of money.

[SLegacy99]

And Toyota already has their own AWD technology. Remember All trac? First AWD vehicle we ever had was a '92 Toyota Previa with All trac. It was also in the Celica, Camry, and Corrolla. What happened?

[AWD_Rules3830]

So why develop batteries and not use them. I gotta believe that cost alot of money.

 

what do you mean ... they would basically just sell the batteries i believe.

[NickB34]

Hmmm... I'd like an MR2 with a Turbo H4

[dan_m]

shiat

 

My older brother drives a camry

 

 

shiat

[Garandman]

Just because toyota buys them doesn't mean subaru is going to go in a different direction. Look at all the companies Ford and GM own and last time a checked toyota owns lexus and i don't hear to many lexus owners coplaining about that.

It sure wouldn't make sense for Toyota to pay billions for Subaru just to wipe out the brand.

 

Toyotas track record with Scion is a case in point. Do a search for "Toyota" in the Scion FAQs at:http://scion.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/scion.cfg/php/enduser/std_alp.php

Number of references found: 0.

 

With the Koreans attacking Subaru from below market; the Chinese and Indians about to enter the world market; and worldwide consolidation the rule, it's just about inevitable. They don't have the money to develop new platforms that will be cost-competitive. At the same time, Toyota needs another US manufacturing facility and the SOA plant has at least 100,000 units of unused capacity.

 

.....They have been profitable for the last 5 years and, profits that any of us would take home.

 

But, they've had negative cash flow for 3 of those 5 years. I did not look carefully enough to find details but, re-tooling manufacturing capacity is expensive. That's a reason to find partners for smaller scale companies if, that's what this is really all about.

 

I casually looked at the balance sheet. (compare this to Ford or, GM). They do have a lot of inventory compared to Toyota (3 X).

 

Return on Stockholder Equity is at 4 going to 3. That kinda sucks in you are a shareholder and, restricts how FHI would go about financing longer term assets.

 

http://www.fhi.co.jp/about/english/index.html

Excellent explanation of the behind the scenes pressure to move.

 

 

It's the best possible circumstance for existing owners, I think.

[SLegacy99]

what do you mean ... they would basically just sell the batteries i believe.

 

Then who developed them? And why wasnt Toyota getting the batteries from them in the first place?

[red beast]

Subarotas?

 

Toyotarus?

[hogmeat]

Subarota: Everyday is moving forward.

 

[The B4]

Then who developed them? And why wasnt Toyota getting the batteries from them in the first place?

 

Subaru and NEC formed a Joint Venture to develop the batteries. So Toyota is going to the batteries from the company that developed them in the first place.

[SLegacy99]

Subaru and NEC formed a Joint Venture to develop the batteries. So Toyota is going to the batteries from the company that developed them in the first place.

 

Interesting.

[Jon in CT]

Subaru and NEC formed a Joint Venture to develop the batteries. So Toyota is going to the batteries from the company that developed them in the first place.

This is a load of crap. Toyota is already tight with its battery supplier, Matsushita Electric. When Toyota got its seat on FHI's board, they probably gently suggested that FHI get out of the battery business and focus its attention on its core businesses. FHI got the message and dissolved its joint venture with NEC in March, 2006.

 

http://www.nec.co.jp/press/en/0603/3001.html

[carman493]

This would be a wonderful aquisition for the entire consumer marker im sure:

 

Most-likely Subaru would benefit with quieter interiors and a better build quality compared to what Subaru produces now. When driving many Toyota models, there are few, if any squeeks and rattles and the electronic features all work superbly in most cases even on Toyota vehicles 10 years and older. Subarus on the other hand, although having great build quality itself and somewhat quiet interiors, are still not as quiet as they should be in the mainstream car buyers market. Most subarus purchased are not turbo and are for regular transportation needs. Subaru does offer a more connected driving experiance which is a plus. But getting back to my main point, is that hopefully Toyota could bring some of the extra sound deadening technology into the subaru line and improve on the climate control and other electronic features that subaru hasnt yet perfected.

 

Driving my father's 06 obxt ltd on a long trip really showed some of the flaws with the climate control and several other electronic features, not to mention my own experience with my last 05 lgt. Great cars, but still needing some improvement to compete with to camrys and accords of today.

 

Subaru does have a performance side to it as well, and hopefully toyota can enhance this for subaru. I feel that subaru braking systems and some suspension tuning are sub-par for the performance oriented consumer (except for the STi ofcourse). With Toyota's history of performance cars, you can see how they have had superb brakes and chassis design and pretty much every sports car they have previously made. And don't be fooled, there have been many. The Supra obviously being the one that stands out most, albeit, very expensive, but hopefully some of that technology could be used to improve on what subaru already has built for today's line of performance vehicles.

 

As for an AWD Camry or a fwd Subaru, don't expect that to happen, not ever in my opinion. Toyota has been making awd vehicles for many years, many of them in Europe and Japan. They still make many awd vehicles, like the Toyota BB (Scion Xb), certain corolla models, they currently make the IS250 with awd and in the past the Celica and many other models as well. Subaru's awd system, as noted by another member here is setup like a rwd vehicle. Engine faces forward with a transmission coming off the rear of the engine and a driveshaft coming off the back of the trans going to the read differential along with two smaller shafts coming off the sides of the transmission to the front wheels. Toyota is designed like a front wheel drive set up, essentially with the engine sideways and the transmission bolted up to it like a front wheel drive transmission would be, but with an output shaft going to a tranfercase with a driveshaft coming off that to the rear differential. Similar to what Mitsubishi and other car companies have had for many years.

 

Subaru is a great car company and has a great following which could only benefit from Toyota's input if they decide to imput anything at all. Toyota could benefit as well from some of the Subaru technology used in their vehicles. As for Turbocharging, both companies have been using turbos for nearly 20 years, if not longer, so they are both on the same page here. In fact, Toyota has used the top mount intercooler like subaru uses as far back as the 80's, so its not like they'll be taking away, but more like enhancing one another.

 

Look at what Chrysler and Mercedes have done for each other. Chrysler has gotten a better product, for instance the 300 model line uses the rear suspension from the mercedes E class, and mercedes well, i cant think of anything that has benefitted mercedes, but im sure there's something lol.

 

All in all, this would be great for both companies and I see it as a win/win situation. Or I could have just wasted 10 minutes typing these run-on sentences considering this is all just a speculation of what could happen, but there is no evidence of serious interest in this aquisition.

Just my 5 cents (I thought 2 cents was too little for this essay of a post)

[carman493]

one last thing, if toyota does take over, it would be nice to see some hybrid technology in some subaru models, both turbocharged and not, as my father's outback xt 5eat only averages around 16mpg around town, we got around 21mpg avg on a 3400 mile trip from ny to florida and back. My mom's 525xi gets nearly 30mpg on the highway and 22+ around town!

[SLegacy99]

When driving many Toyota models, there are few, if any squeeks and rattles and the electronic features all work superbly in most cases even on Toyota vehicles 10 years and older.

 

Im sorry, Ill have to disagree with you here. The cd player on our Previa broke around age 10 and the sliding door rattled pretty early on. My mom used to take it in all the time, because she detests that rattling. So she got an RX300. The dash rattles and the steering wheel squeaks when you turn it. So she got an RX400h. I have yet to ride in that car, so we will see. I gotta believe its better than the 300.

[SLegacy99]

one last thing, if toyota does take over, it would be nice to see some hybrid technology in some subaru models, both turbocharged and not, as my father's outback xt 5eat only averages around 16mpg around town, we got around 21mpg avg on a 3400 mile trip from ny to florida and back. My mom's 525xi gets nearly 30mpg on the highway and 22+ around town!

 

I second that.

 

My dad's 330xi is the same ways. Its a 6 speed MT so that helps too.

The brother's gf's Prius gets 62 mpg in the city. Pretty nice.

[carman493]

Im sorry, Ill have to disagree with you here. The cd player on our Previa broke around age 10 and the sliding door rattled pretty early on. My mom used to take it in all the time, because she detests that rattling. So she got an RX300. The dash rattles and the steering wheel squeaks when you turn it. So she got an RX400h. I have yet to ride in that car, so we will see. I gotta believe its better than the 300.

 

I will admit, that no matter how great a car company, they can't all be perfect. I personally wouldn't choose a current Toyota vehicle for myself unless I could have two cars, they aren't for me, as like many of us here, I love to drive my cars like an enthusiest. As for the squeeks and rattles like on your mom's van, that can and will happen on occassion, but from my experience, the Toyota' have the least out of most of the manufacturers. Ten years is pretty good for a CD player in my book. Also, the steering issue was actually quite common in some toyota/lexus vehicles during the earlier RX300 time frame, that is something that Toyota definately screwed up on. So maybe I just contradicted myself a little, but I still feel they have more to do in a positive way for Subaru than negative.

[carman493]

I second that.

 

My dad's 330xi is the same ways. Its a 6 speed MT so that helps too.

The brother's gf's Prius gets 62 mpg in the city. Pretty nice.

 

Our 525xi is even an auto, 6spd auto, but still an auto, and the transmission is superb and it isnt even an SMG style trans, it still match revs on the downshifts and the chassis is so well balanced even without the sport package...i love that car. It handled better than my LGT did, even with the 18" wheels and Road Race Tires, the BMW definately felt like a more confident handling vehicle.

[Jerboa113]

wow, lots of opinions here. I'm not speculating on what would be changed (except that scion already has our steering wheels) but as far as brand recognition, the only way I'd buy a toyota would be an IS-F or if they ever actually make that supra that people keep talking about.. otherwise toyota is as boring as they come and the only way it could be a worse idea imo is if kia bought subaru and started selling the wrx for $6k like they do whatever that little soapbox thing is they make.

 

I dont consider toyota or kia at all in new car searches because I know they dont and wont have what I'm looking for, and they wont change. Toyota follows the addage that the most generic product sells the highest product, and its true, the less your car appeals to any one market, the more it appeals a little bit to every market.. I guess you could call that brown bagging.. I call it a huge automotive disappointment.

 

only time will tell what the results of such a desicion will be, for now one thing remains true.. they cant change what you already own, so theres no reason to worry.. unless you're looking to buy a new car.. in which case.. do it in the next few years if you are worried about it heh

[The B4]

;1001199']This is a load of crap. Toyota is already tight with its battery supplier, Matsushita Electric. When Toyota got its seat on FHI's board, they probably gently suggested that FHI get out of the battery business and focus its attention on its core businesses. FHI got the message and dissolved its joint venture with NEC in March, 2006.

 

http://www.nec.co.jp/press/en/0603/3001.html

 

 

Watch your tongue Jon... and eat your own words

 

NEC and Fuji Heavy Industries have agreed to continue their partnership in development and manufacturing areas after the dissolution of the joint venture. NEC Lamilion Energy will maintain business relations with Fuji Heavy Industries regarding the development and production of rechargeable batteries for electric and hybrid automobiles, which includes its supply of products to Fuji Heavy Industries.