Traction problem.....advise

[GTTuner]

I have not done anything to the suspension on my car yet. Here is my problem; when driving aggressively and cornering I'm getting alot of wheelspin from the inside front wheels. Last night, I took a corner in second and the RF went up in smoke. I am disturbed that the power is not getting transfered to the rear wheels.

 

Does anyone think sway bars would help keep the tires planted? What would the car handle like with stock struts and stiff bars front and rear?

 

Any suggestions would be helpful.

 

BTW, I have 225/45-17 ASX's on stock wheels. Pressure is set to 35psi front and rear. I have tried different pressures, but the 35/35 seems to be the best compromise right now.

[robinlsb]

Sways would help alot. They will also help maintain the proper camber. Add F&R.

[GraysonSubaru]

sway bars will help. i have this happen on my WRX and i have sway bars, but still have this happen at time..not nearly as bad as before the sways were installed but still there. I will be upgrading the front diff shortly to fix this as best as it can be. i will be using the Quaife front diff.

 

I dont know if they have an LGT diff, but here is the link to the WRX ones:

 

http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showthread.php?t=155152

 

Armin there are WorldOne would be the guy to ask about LGT ones if you want to get that far into it..

[PGT]

I had the same issue with Kumho ASX with Perrin sways, Bilsteins, etc so sways are not the answer they appear to be. The problem is the open front diff combined with lack of traction provided by the tires. I didn't have this issue when running 245 width Goodyear F1's....I couldn't ever break the front inside loose.

[ShockerGT]

Stiffer lowering springs will help the most.

 

I know that when I was still on the stock suspension, I could feel the front end lift and lose traction while cornering and applying throttle. After going with pink springs on Tokicos, I no longer have that problem.

[Th3Franz]

Stiffer springs and sway bars along with the stickiest tires you can find help a lot.. that damn open diff.. if a Spec B would come with a nice LSD front diff I might consider getting one..

[MIKEBRAVO]

Coilovers...... or The sways they will help alot

[GraysonSubaru]

falken azenis RT 615 FTW!!!

[Xenonk]

I have not done anything to the suspension on my car yet. Here is my problem; when driving aggressively and cornering I'm getting alot of wheelspin from the inside front wheels. Last night, I took a corner in second and the RF went up in smoke. I am disturbed that the power is not getting transfered to the rear wheels.

 

Does anyone think sway bars would help keep the tires planted? What would the car handle like with stock struts and stiff bars front and rear?

 

Any suggestions would be helpful.

 

BTW, I have 225/45-17 ASX's on stock wheels. Pressure is set to 35psi front and rear. I have tried different pressures, but the 35/35 seems to be the best compromise right now.

 

 

 

You are spinning that inside tire cuz the car has an open front differential.

 

Getting sway bars to battle this problem is a catch-22.

A) the car will stay flat initially as much as it can to the limit

B) if you overdrive a car with stiff sways, you will end up lifting the inside tires more

 

You need stiffer springs and shocks, period.

 

That or drive smoother!

[OhBe1]

I have not done anything to the suspension on my car yet. Here is my problem; when driving aggressively and cornering I'm getting alot of wheelspin from the inside front wheels. ...

 

More rear sway bar should help.

[PGT]

more rear sway bar to help front wheel traction?

[OhBe1]

Yep. These things understeer. A lot. You will notice that most F/R kits increase rear roll stifness a lot more than front.

The rear bar on an LGT is 16mm. JDM 20mm hollow is about equivalent of 18mm solid, for about 60% increase in stiffness (or about 100% increase over my LOB's original 15mm bar).

[robinlsb]

I just have to agree with you, up to a point. A stiffer front bar BY ITSELF, increases under steer. A stiffer rear sway bar increases both front and rear traction (total GEES) The whole idea is to maintain tread on the road AND not push your front tires past the limit of load that the tire can take and maintain optimum adhesion. Put too much pressure on the outside front and either you will overheat it or you will "collapse ' the tread.

 

Heck you can put a HUGE front sway bar on a car, and it will pull better GEEs, but it will be very hard to drive in "traffic" And the outside front tire will be a smoking hulk.

 

It is all a balance issue, not mention how many right turns versus left turns, How many hard (hairpins) versus high speed turns, etc. Not to mention the driver, some prefer over steer, some prefer under steer. You ain't gonna find neutral steer.

 

So get the picture?, everything is a compromise.

 

My personal opinion is F&R sways.The only thing I have to back this up is this: Look on this site and see how many springs and/or coil overs are for sale. Then look for used sway bars. See a pattern?

[OhBe1]

The idea is to balance front & rear for the anticipated conditions. For most cases, the USDM Subies (OB, GT, or regular) understeer so much that lateral G capability is limited by the outside front tire overloading. And the inside front contibutes little. Adding rear roll stiffness will help alleviate that.

 

Doubling the rear roll stiffness, even the stock RE92's work better. And it still understeers quite a bit.

 

Next step, alignment.

[GTTuner]

I had the same issue with Kumho ASX with Perrin sways, Bilsteins, etc so sways are not the answer they appear to be. The problem is the open front diff combined with lack of traction provided by the tires. I didn't have this issue when running 245 width Goodyear F1's....I couldn't ever break the front inside loose.

 

I was out last night(at my personal proving grounds:icon_cool) and I think the ASX's contribute much to my car doing spooky shit. The sidewalls have considerable flex even at high inflation pressures. They spin more than the RE92'S from a standing start despite the increase in tread width. I also didn't get as much wheelspin from the fronts coming out of corners with the Re's.

I also know besides more sway control, I need to do something with damping or springs. I'd rather use the stock springs(try to retain some of the ride quality while tightening things up a bit) with a set of Bilsteins and bars.

If money were no object, I'd look into some type of LSD in front. I still am wondering if there is something wrong with the rear wheels not getting any of the power....I used to be able to hang the ass end out on damp roads, now it liquifys the inside front and the back just follows.

[OhBe1]

Some reviews of the ASX indicate they're an improvement over the RE92. Perhaps that is not universal.

 

I'll reiterate my suggestion for more rear roll stiffness. It's cheap & easy. What have you got to lose?

 

Front would help as well (reducing camber changes), but it needs more rear.

[LawGT]

I was out last night(at my personal proving grounds:icon_cool) and I think the ASX's contribute much to my car doing spooky shit. The sidewalls have considerable flex even at high inflation pressures. They spin more than the RE92'S from a standing start despite the increase in tread width. I also didn't get as much wheelspin from the fronts coming out of corners with the Re's.

I also know besides more sway control, I need to do something with damping or springs. I'd rather use the stock springs(try to retain some of the ride quality while tightening things up a bit) with a set of Bilsteins and bars.

If money were no object, I'd look into some type of LSD in front. I still am wondering if there is something wrong with the rear wheels not getting any of the power....I used to be able to hang the ass end out on damp roads, now it liquifys the inside front and the back just follows.

 

 

Perhaps you should have gotten the 960 A/S ...... j k

[rougeben83]

I was out last night(at my personal proving grounds:icon_cool) and I think the ASX's contribute much to my car doing spooky shit. The sidewalls have considerable flex even at high inflation pressures. They spin more than the RE92'S from a standing start despite the increase in tread width. I also didn't get as much wheelspin from the fronts coming out of corners with the Re's.

I also know besides more sway control, I need to do something with damping or springs. I'd rather use the stock springs(try to retain some of the ride quality while tightening things up a bit) with a set of Bilsteins and bars.

If money were no object, I'd look into some type of LSD in front. I still am wondering if there is something wrong with the rear wheels not getting any of the power....I used to be able to hang the ass end out on damp roads, now it liquifys the inside front and the back just follows.

 

What tire pressures are you running? You can also play with the car's balance a little with the tire pressures.

 

Also, if you over inflate your tires, you loose traction, but if you underinflate you tires you loose handling precision, and a little lateral grip

[C_randyjones]

Check out the Tirerack reviews of the RE92's, it is horrible. That is likely a huge part of the problem. Upgrade the tires!

[C_randyjones]

OOPs, sorry dude, I see that you have already done that.

[itsme]

I have not done anything to the suspension on my car yet. Here is my problem; when driving aggressively and cornering I'm getting alot of wheelspin from the inside front wheels. Last night, I took a corner in second and the RF went up in smoke. I am disturbed that the power is not getting transfered to the rear wheels.

 

Does anyone think sway bars would help keep the tires planted? What would the car handle like with stock struts and stiff bars front and rear?

 

Any suggestions would be helpful.

 

BTW, I have 225/45-17 ASX's on stock wheels. Pressure is set to 35psi front and rear. I have tried different pressures, but the 35/35 seems to be the best compromise right now.

I still had that problem after I added my 19"s and F&R sway bars. I added H-tech springs and now the problem is gone. Less squat and launch and less dive when I stop.

[robinlsb]

I was out last night(at my personal proving grounds:icon_cool) and I think the ASX's contribute much to my car doing spooky shit. The sidewalls have considerable flex even at high inflation pressures. They spin more than the RE92'S from a standing start despite the increase in tread width. I also didn't get as much wheelspin from the fronts coming out of corners with the Re's.

I also know besides more sway control, I need to do something with damping or springs. I'd rather use the stock springs(try to retain some of the ride quality while tightening things up a bit) with a set of Bilsteins and bars.

If money were no object, I'd look into some type of LSD in front. I still am wondering if there is something wrong with the rear wheels not getting any of the power....I used to be able to hang the ass end out on damp roads, now it liquifys the inside front and the back just follows.

 

Welcome to the world of suspension tuning!!! And I would think about smoooooth> You don't have to jam on the brakes, or jam on the gas. Try to let the car get a suspension set, and move on from there. beating the car doesn't make you faster, it is just more exciting:lol: Just remember, that molten rubber is VERY slippery. Watch a F! race or two, almost nobody Ever smokes a tire.

[robinlsb]

Oh, one other thing, As I have said before, better tires are great, but what happens at the limit is just exacerbated by the higher speed at which the car reaches the limitations of the suspension. Great(or OK) in Autox, deadly on public roads:icon_mad:

[Xenonk]

I just have to agree with you, up to a point. A stiffer front bar BY ITSELF, increases under steer

 

 

to be technically correct, that only happens when you OVER DRIVE the car..

[GTTuner]

What tire pressures are you running? You can also play with the car's balance a little with the tire pressures.

 

Also, if you over inflate your tires, you loose traction, but if you underinflate you tires you loose handling precision, and a little lateral grip

 

As the poster robinlsb states below, "welcome to the world of suspension tuning!"

 

I noticed if I drop the fronts down to about 30 psi:eek: they hook up much better. I guess I got my $$$'s worh from an 80 dollar tire!

 

If I drive smooth, it is def manageable. I like going out late onto the deserted backs roads and doing my "hooligan maneuvers", which includes power induced oversteer. Too much fun to pass up. The RE's were much more fun:icon_bigg and did not liquify the inside fronts either. I also ran them a at a lower pressure than the RE's.

 

To be redundant:icon_cool , what is everyones opinion on stock springs, Blisteins, and some front and rear sways? I'm getting old (40, sorry fellow fourtiers) and I love the ride my car gives, although more damping would be welcome.

 

Thanks guys, all your suggestions and experience should help me tighten this baby up with minimal $$$. I'm saving for alky inj too.

 

The other ting, I checked the toe on the front wheels, seems I'm toe out almost 1/4" total. Going on the alignment machine TODAY!