drcaveman Posted September 5, 2007 Share Posted September 5, 2007 Regarding better wheel dyno numbers and the SPEC B the only thing I can think of is the drive train must be more efficient, since all turbo legacy's are identical up to the fly wheel, the only way the spec b can make more wheel power would be from less drive train loss. Only the SPEC B has the 6MT. Also i am not sure what the ratios are in the diffs, I also am assuming that gears 1-5 carry different ratios on the 6 MT compared to the 5MT, all of these differences will change the power reaching the wheels, and in the case of the SPEC B this seems to be higher. Anybody have that information. If those numbers I am seeing are at the fly wheel than my only thoughts are, tighter tolerances in the engine combined with light weight components, this would be a worthy investigation to see if some parts used in the STI motor are being used in the SPEC B motor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 ^ The 06 Spec. has the 5mt so it's not drive train efficiency. What parts are different on the STI? Cams? More agressive timing and/or mixture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 The maps posted earlier show identical AFR and timing. AVCS too. Given that the AFR, timing, and AVCS maps are all identical, I'd shocked to learn that the cams themselves are different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Cams are the same, check the part numbers. Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drcaveman Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 The maps posted earlier show identical AFR and timing. AVCS too. Given that the AFR, timing, and AVCS maps are all identical, I'd shocked to learn that the cams themselves are different. All engines create a base horse power, the loss in the engine include those required to turn the components of the engine. Which is separate from the friction. That loss eats at the base power number. If you lighten the components then it take less energy to turn them therefore producing more power at the flywheel. Since the cam profiles would be identical no remapping would be required, they would just be lighter. Subaru would never report this because I am certain that they have no desire to re certify the cars. So just like the big three do all the time, they underrate the engines. There are so many things that could be changed to boost the power, it could be smoother piping, higher tolerances. We need to see a lot more data to make a clear determination are all Spec B's making more power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pako Posted September 6, 2007 Share Posted September 6, 2007 Not to stray from the original topic, but from a consumer standpoint, it would be worth the effort of SOA to reflect higher HP ratings on the Spec.B's if they are, in fact, producing higher HP numbers. As a consumer, it would help justify the additional dollars needed to purchases the Spec.B. I know it would have swayed my decision when I got the LGT a month ago. It think it would be smart marketing from Subaru to list it as such, if they are in fact producing more HP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Not to stray from the original topic, but from a consumer standpoint, it would be worth the effort of SOA to reflect higher HP ratings on the Spec.B's if they are, in fact, producing higher HP numbers. As a consumer, it would help justify the additional dollars needed to purchases the Spec.B. I know it would have swayed my decision when I got the LGT a month ago. It think it would be smart marketing from Subaru to list it as such, if they are in fact producing more HP. They are producing more power. This aspect as to the reasons behind SOA's marketing has been discussed at length on other threads. Only 500 Spec.Bs were built when they were introduced in 2005. The model met with pretty good critical success in the general media. The only place it was regularly dissed was here at good old LGT.com. The faster published times of the Spec.B were put down to the usual excuses (factory ringer, inept magazine staff, etc.) and even the suspect reasoning that the Bilstien suspension complete with its 18" wheels made the car go faster (0-60 in 5.1 and 1/4 in 13.7). The base LGT is a great platform to make an almost "super car", IMHO. Suspension tweaks and engine mods can make it into a beast. I'm not into DIY modding so I bought one modded from the OEM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottybuckeye Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 They are producing more power. Dude, I've seen you in multiple threads desperately defending your stance on the superiority of specB's. Is there any reason you need so much for everyone to be convinced of your beliefs? It's really not that big of a deal. Just smile and be happily convinced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommypenguin Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Dude, I've seen you in multiple threads desperately defending your stance on the superiority of specB's. Is there any reason you need so much for everyone to be convinced of your beliefs? It's really not that big of a deal. Just smile and be happily convinced. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 7, 2007 Share Posted September 7, 2007 Dude, I've seen you in multiple threads desperately defending your stance on the superiority of specB's. Is there any reason you need so much for everyone to be convinced of your beliefs? It's really not that big of a deal. Just smile and be happily convinced. Just challenging the LGT.com orthodoxy and illogical dogma with data and evidence. It all started innocently enough when members were attributing the then new 06 Spec.Bs faster times in a straight line to a better suspension or, in some cases, larger wheels. BTW, I never diss the LGT which is a fine car, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccorry Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Let me check....... Yeah... I still don't care, Vimy..... Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pako Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 They are producing more power. This aspect as to the reasons behind SOA's marketing has been discussed at length on other threads. Only 500 Spec.Bs were built when they were introduced in 2005. The model met with pretty good critical success in the general media. The only place it was regularly dissed was here at good old LGT.com. The faster published times of the Spec.B were put down to the usual excuses (factory ringer, inept magazine staff, etc.) and even the suspect reasoning that the Bilstien suspension complete with its 18" wheels made the car go faster (0-60 in 5.1 and 1/4 in 13.7). The base LGT is a great platform to make an almost "super car", IMHO. Suspension tweaks and engine mods can make it into a beast. I'm not into DIY modding so I bought one modded from the OEM. I'll do some searching as to why SOA wouldn't advertise the "true" HP, but until I further educate myself, it still seems like they're shorting themselves on marketing. Not everyone is a tech head and will strictly look at spec numbers and not do proper research. My point is not whether or not the spec.B's have or don't have more HP, it's more or less just a Marketing oversight on SOA's part if the Spec.B does produce more HP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccorry Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 ^^^^^^^^^^ They don't market it as so.... because it DOESN'T and they'd get sued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 ^^^^^^^^^^ They don't market it as so.... because it DOESN'T and they'd get sued. Of course, faster times, drag slips and high dyno results kind of fly in the face of your baseless dogmatic argument. Infiniti underreported the output of their 4.5 liter V8 for years in the early 90s. Other OEMs have as well. It's not like it doesn't happen (for whatever reason). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccorry Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Post up or shut up, Vimy.... let me see that sub-12 timeslip of yours! Fact is... you've NEVER run your car... so you're talking out your but. Give me some proof.... not from a magazine... not from an "internet article". I want to see a timeslip... a dyno chart (verified) off a dyno that has an LGT pull at the same time (right before or after). Or... post up the part number of the special camshafts for the Spec B.... Or the special pistons..... Or the special ECU..... Or the special turbocharger.... ANYTHING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Post up or shut up, Vimy.... let me see that sub-12 timeslip of yours! OEM 06 Spec.B 214 whp 242 wt won't get you under 12. But you knew that, right? Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyGT08 Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 Be nice to the Noob...but it stands to reason (my reasoning anyway) that: IF a car company is going to produce a "better" variant of a popular car only make 500 the first year show them off to all the car mags, etc, etc, etc THEN They might spend a little more time making sure they're put together "right" Same parts, same basic car, just a little extra TLC during the build. just my $0.02 NEVER ARGUE WITH A STUPID PERSON. THEY WILL DRAG YOU DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL, THEN BEAT YOU WITH EXPERIENCE. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccorry Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I'm not debating that...... But I've toured the plant where the Legacies are made... has have other members on here. There is no where to "hand build" these cars. They come of the exact same production lines as the rest of our LGT's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qikslvr Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 That 500 are probably the result of one days production. The way assembly lines are designed these day; you would have to retool the entire line to make "custom vehicles". So if they were going to do a run of Spec B's they would do all of them at once. The only real difference is in a couple suspension parts, tranny and some interior items. It's not like they built a new plant to produce 500 cars a year. True custom, one off or hand made cars cost hundreds of thousands of dollars not $30K. Let's kick this pig! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 FYI speedometers always read high. Those that saw triple digites were likely many mph slower than the speedo read. Those with Navi: check it... it should be much more accurate. At 60mph my speedometer read 2-3 mph higher than the navi... theoretically it should read 4-6 mph higher @ 120mph. This is interesting though as I've always thought we were ecu limited @ 136mph. I've also had the "horn alarm" go off... it scared the something out of me and I almost jerked the wheel on accident. Bad call subaru lol. FYI there is no conclusive evidence that specbs produce more power. FYI there is one delusional member of this forum who doesn't understand the term "annoying" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_sharp Posted September 8, 2007 Share Posted September 8, 2007 I'm not debating that...... But I've toured the plant where the Legacies are made... has have other members on here. There is no where to "hand build" these cars. They come of the exact same production lines as the rest of our LGT's. I wanted a job there so bad. My buddy went to work for Cat in Lafayette so it would have been awesome. Oh well texas isn't too bad either lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenorkathy Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Drag time.....A Spec B should in theory do better. Different suspension components will allow for a better transfer of power....or less power loss. Also at higher speeds some difference will be realized just by the stance of the car during hard acceleration. The Spec B is stiffer, so it isn't going to be as adversely affected. I think I once read that the Spec B had a different rim? If there is any difference in the rim or tire, that can explain the entire difference. A lighter rim will definitely have less rotational mass to accelerate. As far as the tires, are they the same size and weight? Again same reason. There is no difference in the engine....none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkjohnson1950 Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 I believe Road and Track said it: It's the gearing. If you put larger wheels/tires on a car you change the gearing, simple fact. This could easily account for the differences in "stock" 1/4 mile times and 0-60 times. And on any assembly line there will be a range of performance due to tolerances necessary for building the cars. So if the moon and planets aligned ( and the tolerances maxed out ) you get a quick car, if not, well, bummer!! Why get all worked up about it? It ain't like we're racing Bugattis at the strip tomorrow. You're just jealous that the Voices talk to Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkjohnson1950 Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Oh yeah, the Spec Bs come with a slightly better tire too, eh? You're just jealous that the Voices talk to Me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 9, 2007 Share Posted September 9, 2007 Drag time.....A Spec B should in theory do better. Different suspension components will allow for a better transfer of power....or less power loss. Also at higher speeds some difference will be realized just by the stance of the car during hard acceleration. The Spec B is stiffer, so it isn't going to be as adversely affected. I think I once read that the Spec B had a different rim? If there is any difference in the rim or tire, that can explain the entire difference. A lighter rim will definitely have less rotational mass to accelerate. As far as the tires, are they the same size and weight? Again same reason. There is no difference in the engine....none. No wheel slip in a straight line on OEM models. Spec. wheels are bigger for taller drive ratio which should mean slower acceleration. Dynos and times indicate more OEM engine power from Spec.s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.