Vimy101 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Correct me if I'm wrong but the speed limiter is a software item that has nothing to do with the processor. E.G. APs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickeyd2005 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 We can prove it very easily if someone posts up a SpecB ROM..... That is very odd that you should mention that. hyteck9 just posted his today. BTW, notice the WGDC time delay that kills power in the low end. http://www.enginuity.org/viewtopic.php?t=2402 imprezarsx posted his wife's 2006 LGT MT here: http://www.xpttuning.com/osecuroms/viewtopic.php?t=127&sid=cadb833d7d2c4e877dd07d40681f18b4 CN: ROM is the same, A2WF200N. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Correct me if I'm wrong but the speed limiter is a software item that has nothing to do with the processor. E.G. APs You are right...it is software, but it is in the ECU rom code, and is in the AP, because the AP is essentially a modified ROM image, set to use the RAM area for RT map abilities.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pako Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Completely stock, my '08 Limited hit 140 then down to 135 and back up to 140 and back down to 135. I am assuming I was hitting the speed limiter as I had more room to go and the acceleration from 135-140 was fairly good. Not much difference in stability from 120 mph to 140, still fairly stable on the straight away, but the wind did get rather noisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 That is very odd that you should mention that. hyteck9 just posted his today. BTW, notice the WGDC time delay that kills power in the low end. http://www.enginuity.org/viewtopic.php?t=2402 imprezarsx posted his wife's 2006 LGT MT here: http://www.xpttuning.com/osecuroms/viewtopic.php?t=127&sid=cadb833d7d2c4e877dd07d40681f18b4 CN: ROM is the same, A2WF200N. Thanks Mike! I guess we now can confirm that the SpecB has no magic ECU:lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 How can you tell that? Serious question. The extra power comes from somewhere. Where? How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 How can you tell that? Serious question. The extra power comes from somewhere. Where? How? I just looked at the posted SpecB rom image, and compared it to a stock '05 LGT. All the important tables like fueling, AVCS, timing, boost, WGDC, MAF calibration were all identical. Enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 I just looked at the posted SpecB rom image, and compared it to a stock '05 LGT. All the important tables like fueling, AVCS, timing, boost, WGDC, MAF calibration were all identical. Enough said. Where do the dyno numbers come from then? More aggressive cams? The dyno we have of an 06 Spec. shows something close to 15 lbs rather than the 13.5 number I've seen here frequently for the LGT. Software may be the same but that doesn't necessarily mean the hardware is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Where do the dyno numbers come from then? More aggressive cams? The dyno we have of an 06 Spec. shows something close to 15 lbs rather than the 13.5 number I've seen here frequently for the LGT. Software may be the same but that doesn't necessarily mean the hardware is. The SpecB has the same motor as the LGT hardware & software wise. Cams are an expensive part to manufacture, and SOA isn't going to make,tune, and stock special SpecB derivatives. The 15lbs seen I believe, was on a dyno map sensor, not the onboard one read by the ecu. So that is not an accurate comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 They might make a limited number. Say 500. The NY tuner hasn't been able to explain why the same mods on Spec.s produce more power than LGTs. And the dyno result exceeds the margin of error. Accurate or not, there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 They might make a limited number. Say 500. The NY tuner hasn't been able to explain why the same mods on Spec.s produce more power than LGTs. And the dyno result exceeds the margin of error. Accurate or not, there it is. Well, there is an explanation..... it is called production tolerances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 For a limited production run I would think it a matter of pushing a button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edmundu Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 For a limited production run I would think it a matter of pushing a button. This ain't Staples....there is no easy button:lol: Seriously, if Subaru changed any of the software calibrations or hardware, they'd need to resubmit to EPA testing, which is not cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 For cams there would be. "Execute more aggressive cam profile". Press enter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zed 2.0 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 They might make a limited number. Say 500. The NY tuner hasn't been able to explain why the same mods on Spec.s produce more power than LGTs. And the dyno result exceeds the margin of error. Accurate or not, there it is. I'd like to see these mystery spec b dyno results everybody talks about. Same day, same dyno, same MY LGT, same SAEs? Bone stock for bone stock? What about 1/4 mile times spec b vs. non-spec of the same MY? Tuning logic suggests that if the specs have a more aggressive tune from the factory, there is less power to be gained from the same mods--not more--because the factory tune leaves less power on the table. Serious question, not trying to provoke a flame war. I've just never seen anything but speculation presented as fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 I'd like to see these mystery spec b dyno results everybody talks about. Same day, same dyno, same MY LGT, same SAEs? Bone stock for bone stock? What about 1/4 mile times spec b vs. non-spec of the same MY? Tuning logic suggests that if the specs have a more aggressive tune from the factory, there is less power to be gained from the same mods--not more--because the factory tune leaves less power on the table. Serious question, not trying to provoke a flame war. I've just never seen anything but speculation presented as fact. I only deal in evidence. Observation confirms theory. My theory is that the 06 Spec.B is the quickest OEM LGT variant to date. Here you go (courtesy member AndyJ):specb%20dyno[1].pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccorry Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Oh brother.... not this excrement again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 The extra power comes from somewhere. Where? How? From a misunderstanding? I just had a look at the maps as well, and can confirm that the relevant tables are identical (including AVCS, FWIW). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 Oh brother.... not this excrement again.... Thanks for your input. Enjoyed your data. Butt out or produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 From a misunderstanding? I just had a look at the maps as well, and can confirm that the relevant tables are identical (including AVCS, FWIW). Misunderstanding? Such as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NSFW Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 I dunno really, but given that the ECUs are tuned the same, I don't see much else to explain the difference. How many stronger-than-GT spec B's are in your sample group? Wasn't it GarnetRedInDE who was running surprisingly fast 1/4mi times and it turned out his car was just abnormally strong? Maybe the tuner you mentioned just saw another one that happened to be a couple standard deviations above the mean. Does Subaru even claim that the spec B's engine is stronger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mccorry Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 I dunno really, but given that the ECUs are tuned the same, I don't see much else to explain the difference. How many stronger-than-GT spec B's are in your sample group? Wasn't it GarnetRedInDE who was running surprisingly fast 1/4mi times and it turned out his car was just abnormally strong? Maybe the tuner you mentioned just saw another one that happened to be a couple standard deviations above the mean. Does Subaru even claim that the spec B's engine is stronger? OEM Spec.Bs are turning higher than expected dyno numbers. Perhaps SOA knows that it is the Spec.B that will be magazine tested so they make sure that model won't disappoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilT Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 The hardware is the same, now it's been proven that the software is the same, so the only discrepancy is the dyno, looks like you have finally been proved wrong Double Award Winning Legacy GT Wagon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 3, 2007 Share Posted September 3, 2007 The hardware is the same, now it's been proven that the software is the same, so the only discrepancy is the dyno, looks like you have finally been proved wrong Wrong about what? The Spec.B dynos have all come in with higher numbers. Then there are the published times and the drag time slips. The Spec.B does appear to put out more power ECU or not. I just wish I was able to make sense of those log numbers. However, we are getting closer to understanding what SOA isn't doing to produce the greater Spec.B power output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.