Growling/Clunking noise in rear while accelerating hard in 1st or 2nd ??

[Leonardo]

Can anyone get a pic (not diagram) of those bushings?

[SeeeeeYa]

Can anyone get a pic (not diagram) of those bushings?

 

You can't get a clear shot of those bushings. However, they are the same design as the rear diff bushings. Probably different size, but the same design.

 

That design includes two rubber webs that connect the inner bolt moulding with the outer 'race' moulding. Two air pockets are on either side. It is a nice squishy NVH isolation barrier. It sucks as a locator for the rear wheels, however.

[Leonardo]

This same design? so cutting these a bit could make them fit?

 

http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii248/Leonardocal/DSC00596.jpg

 

Sounds like we should get TIC to give WL a call. I can't imagine the USDM is the only one with this problem.

[LittleBlueGT]

I know you denegrate the 3M WS poly and I understand. But it bears remembering that I got the idea from a website that used it to recreate engine mounts..... that worked better than the originals. All jokes aside, the PCV inserts and 3M WS Poly makes on amazingly strong and firm bushing. If they are the same size, and not just general architecture, then those diff inserts would be a true blessing!

 

I said previously that I will do the poly thing (for the rear arm), so the next few lines are not intended to denegrate (first time I have used that word) the poly thing.

 

I did the poly thing in the upper diff bushings. I hated doing it. I hated waiting two days to drive the car. And I just hate the stuff.

 

The reason I think the WL inserts are much better (yes even then the poly and PVC pipe sections) is that the inserts are so ridiculously tight fitting, they pretty much compress the rubber already there as much is it will go, that I almost gave up on putting them in. I lubed the heck out of them, and had to apply an absence amount of leverege force to get them in. There is no way the poly thing (with PVC inserts) is gonna end up making a stiffer joint.

[SeeeeeYa]

I said previously that I will do the poly thing (for the rear arm), so the next few lines are not intended to denegrate (first time I have used that word) the poly thing.

 

I did the poly thing in the upper diff bushings. I hated doing it. I hated waiting two days to drive the car. And I just hate the stuff.

 

The reason I think the WL inserts are much better (yes even then the poly and PVC pipe sections) is that the inserts are so ridiculously tight fitting, they pretty much compress the rubber already there as much is it will go, that I almost gave up on putting them in. I lubed the heck out of them, and had to apply an absence amount of leverege force to get them in. There is no way the poly thing (with PVC inserts) is gonna end up making a stiffer joint.

 

Let's just say, if my bushings were not terminally gooped up I'd remove what I did and use those inserts.

 

From my installation of that original 5EAT mount insert that was designed for the 4EAT...... I know what you mean about putting them in. So I know what you mean about the stiffening quality. But, whatever, the TOTAL package is apparently what counts, and once you fix those two remaining bushings I think you, too, will find your problem reduced to vanishingly small. You've done everything else.

 

Not to pick on TIC, but it seems to me people who are supposed to be experts in suspensions would have jumped on those two bushings FIRST. I know they were one of the first things I did, but they are so hard to get to my "fix" kept being ejected from the bushings. It wasn't until that time on the rack when I had the time and access to the bushings that allowed me to fix them permanently. (One messy messy messy odius job, too!)

 

The proper way to fix them is to take that mounting bracket off, then address the bushings. That, however, was a bigger job than I could deal with at the time and opted for the mess instead. Luckily it works.

 

I cannot stress enough the pleasure of being able to accelerate however and whenever I choose without that miserable reminder from the rear that something is WRONG, and is going to break someting sooner or later.

[schwinn]

#23 on there I replaced with the Cusco rear power brace.

 

We need to get the bushing part number of the "suspension piece we shall not name" and cross reference it with ones from the STi and verify if there is an aftermarket version or a company willing to do it.

I assume that the "suspension piece we shall not name" is the one I mentioned - the ones on the subframe. Based on the drawing linked by SeeYa, the bushings I am concerned with are the ones that are part of #21, located within its 4 corners, just under the item #24 spacer for the Outbacks...

 

As for the potential suggestion here with item 13 could potentially cause this noise as well, I suppose... but I have to say that a twisting subframe seems more likely to me. Either way, as long as it gets solved, I'll be happy!

 

I look forward to the results from other people's experimentation

[Leonardo]

Actually, the one I meant was the one that has been named trailing arm or rear arm so I decided to call it that since I don't want to be part of the controversy. On thing is sure, if something is moving or flexing, it should be leaving a mark somewhere but no one has seen anything so far.

[Guest]

I made two interesting discoveries today:

 

1. SpecB trailing arm front bushings are different - noticeably beefier (much less void space). I have JDM GT/SpecB (both get alu arms in JDM) trailing arms, so I am not 100% sure about USDM but I checked part #s and they are different between USDM GT and USDM SpecB (SpecB part# is 20254AE050).

 

It's hard to see in the pic, but GT bushing's openings go thru, while the SpecB do not.

 

2. 06+ rear subframe is different from 05. 06 has different part number and subframe support is missing. Maybe the support contributes to the growl?

 

So I was about to scream "eureka" that the problem is limited to MY05 cars only. However, I scanned thru the posts... and indeed it almost only 05, but there are two reports abou tthe issue on 06 LGT, one of which is a SpecB (Gmachine's).

 

However, except the two 06 owners, there no others complaining, and not a single 07+

 

See pictures.

Edited December 14, 2008 by unclemat

[SeeeeeYa]

I made two interesting discoveries today:

 

1. SpecB front trailing arm bushings are different - noticeably beefier (much less void space). I have JDM GT/SpecB (both get alu arms in JDM) trailing arms, so I am not 100% sure about USDM but I checked part #s and they are different between USDM GT and USDM SpecB (SpecB part# is 20254AE050).

 

It's hard to see in the pic, but GT bushing's openings go thru, while the SpecB do not.

 

2. 06+ rear subframe is different from 05. 06 has different part number and subframe support is missing. Maybe the support contributes to the growl?

 

So I was about to scream "eureka" that the problem is limited to MY05 cars only. However, I scanned thru the posts... and indeed it almost only 05, but there are two reports abou tthe issue on 06 LGT, one of which is a SpecB (Gmachine's).

 

However, except the two 06 owners, there no others complaining, and not a single 07+

 

See pictures.

 

Great post, great find.

 

It is obvious how unsuited for the application the 05 piece is. It is also obvious which of those two is superior. However, if the 05 arm is modified properly it will 'cure' its defect and, along with the diff bushing insert and better transmission support, fix the tendency of the rear tires to move about, causing drive shaft oscillations and "wheel hop." The "Growling noise" is nearing defeat.

[Guest]

Great post, great find.

 

It is obvious how unsuited for the application the 05 piece is. It is also obvious which of those two is superior. However, if the 05 arm is modified properly it will 'cure' its defect and, along with the diff bushing insert and better transmission support, fix the tendency of the rear tires to move about, causing drive shaft oscillations and "wheel hop." The "Growling noise" is nearing defeat.

 

According to my part numbers, 05-06 bushings are same, only 06 SpecB is different. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

The big difference between 05 and all 06 is lack of the subframe support piece.

[LittleBlueGT]

According to my part numbers, 05-06 bushings are same, only 06 SpecB is different. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

The big difference between 05 and all 06 is lack of the subframe support piece.

 

How much for an aluminum spec B rear arm (c/w bushing)?

 

I'm thinking in my garage that would take at least a few hours to install.

[Guest]

I imported them used from Japan. Contact a dealer for pricing.

 

You may also consider just swaping the bushings if you don't want to pay for the whole arm. They should fit. I can sell you my old stock arms.

 

And it's not hard to swap them at all.

[Leonardo]

That support piece does nothing. I replaces the OEM one with the much beefier Cusco one and it still makes the noise which begs to think if the JDM don't have that bar, then made it to fit like the USDM one and sold it in japan thus I did nothing by replacing it. It holds the rear part of the sub frame to the body.

 

http://abbyjons.smugmug.com/photos/280640084_SKVoG-S.jpg

Kinda see it here:

http://abbyjons.smugmug.com/photos/280637945_vJ5Mz-S.jpg

http://abbyjons.smugmug.com/photos/280637657_foVHv-S.jpg

[Guest]

JDM cars do have that bar, at least MY04-05. Maybe it was eliminated in MY06 as in USDM.

 

To determine whether it is responsible for the noise it should be removed altogether. It's interesting you're the only person who lives in warm climate that gets this problem consistently. Maybe your Cusco bar made things worse?

[Leonardo]

no, I was still getting it before. Edited December 15, 2008 by Leonardo

[Underdog]

How much for an aluminum spec B rear arm (c/w bushing)?

 

I'm thinking in my garage that would take at least a few hours to install.

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1930537&postcount=62

 

~$290 per arm. 6.6lb weight savings!

[Leonardo]

Well, Spec B bushing is a dollar cheaper than the LegGT one.

 

List price for the GT one is $18.50each and for the Spec B is $17.50each

[Guest]

no, I was still getting it before.

 

Interesting.

 

Btw, there are two spacers that go there instead of the support on 06+ cars. Part is 20176AG06A.

Edited February 15, 2009 by unclemat

[Long Island Legacy]

I have a USDM 07 and i get the noise under hard accell only when the car is cold.

[Leonardo]

Any indication aside from the missing brace and the spacers that replace it that anything else changed?

 

Tempted to try the SpecB bushings but the thought of removing/installing those arms for those bushings scare me.

[Leonardo]

I have a USDM 07 and i get the noise under hard accell only when the car is cold.

 

So the missing brace on the 06- is not teh issue if the 07 is getting it!

[Guest]

Any indication aside from the missing brace and the spacers that replace it that anything else changed?

 

Tempted to try the SpecB bushings but the thought of removing/installing those arms for those bushings scare me.

 

Part number for subframe changed slightly. Got "B" suffix instead of "A". On the parts diagram there are no obvious differences in shape. But yes I am also wondering if it would be ok to remove the support on the MY05 subframe. Would not hurt to try for a short while to see if it helps.

 

Removal of these arms is really easy. Just a bunch of bolts to undo. You can leave brake lines and caliper connected and hang them there. Parking brake needs to be disassembled but that's not a big deal. I removed both arms within 1.5 hrs and this was taking my sweet time.

[Leonardo]

I kinda like the idea of the brace holding the sub-frame in place during my auto-x runs cuz it would seem that without it then really the sub-frame is "floating" on the 4 main bushings. So with that in mind, I'll start with the bushings first as those oem bushings on the trailing arm and the deletion of the brace could cause something gnarly to happen.

[Guest]

I kinda like the idea of the brace holding the sub-frame in place during my auto-x runs cuz it would seem that without it then really the subframe is "floating" on the 4 main bushings.

 

Well, yeah. But it's also held with the pieces that connect it to the trailing arm "hinge".

 

But if 06+ cars don't have it there must be a reason... question is whether it was cost cutting or fix to some issue.

[Leonardo]

That and maybe it cuts down HNV since it ties the suspension to the body and it's all metal-to-metal contact. I still have the OEM brace I can take pics of.