Vimy101 Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 There is no such thing as "all season rubber". All formulas of different rubber-mix behave different at different temperatures. You should have one set of tires for summer/warm weather, and another setup for winter/cold (prefere stud). That's my opinion In the olden days, we used studded tires all the time. Didn't help much unless you live on a hockey rink and drive less than 5 mph. Then the gov't banned the tires because they were scratching up concrete roads. I never noticed a difference between studs and decent studless snows performancewise. Studs are generally overrated unless you are always running on ice highways and even then...the ice wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 You'll probably have some degree of control, but I wouldn't get too "ballsy" until you have a chance to see first-hand exactly how your car handles. Again, in GA--I can't see any reason to be getting dedicated snows or even M+S tires for as little as it snows there. You'll be fine - just take it slow 'till you see how she handles on those Eagles Cheers, Tim G. I'd agree with that: I drove my first car, '84 Jetta GLI, on Comp T/A HR4s (not as aggressive as the Eagles, but definitely a summer tire) for one winter when I couldn't afford snows. That was in Ontario, Canada. There was the one snowstorm when I couldn't make it up a pretty steep incline (had a pickup give me a push), but other than that, as long as I was careful, it was fine. That included driving in 6" of slush on the highway at 50 mph+ (although, in hindsight, that may have been quite dumb :-) I'm guessing Eagles + AWD will be similar (at least, they do have some grooves), not like slicks on ice. I would guess you would have some control. Just remember: in the snow, ABS is your friend. I know, some people will debate that you stop maybe 10% longer, but keeping your car STRAIGHT is much more important, IMHO. I drove approx 10 winters w/o ABS, 6 winters w/. I will never again willingly drive a non-ABS car in snow. Taking my Corrado winter rallying showed me just how good it was: even with somewhat worn snow tires, it kept the car perfectly straight and let me direct the car, while my brother-in-law in his Cherokee 4x4 on snow tires did a 360 spin. Yes, maybe 10% longer stopping, but with control, you can often AVOID the obstacle entirely. I'm heading up to Tahoe this weekend with the Eagles, and they're supposed to see low 20s overnight. I'm not that worried, but will be careful about ice. HV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 In the olden days, we used studded tires all the time. Didn't help much unless you live on a hockey rink and drive less than 5 mph. Then the gov't banned the tires because they were scratching up concrete roads. I never noticed a difference between studs and decent studless snows performancewise. Studs are generally overrated unless you are always running on ice highways and even then...the ice wins. I think the studded tires you used to drive on are very different than the ones today. A lot of people use studded tires in the winter out here in Oregon, especially skiiers. Subarus represent 1/3 of cars on the mountains in winter, and Subaru AWD + studded tires rules the mountain. Snow tires help keep the car straight. Studs help with braking. Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWP-LegacyGT Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 And also be more carefull around the 3k RPM range. QFT - That is where your boost builds and if you're not careful with how your driving, spinning can start very easily!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadvw Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 QFT - That is where your boost builds and if you're not careful with how your driving, spinning can start very easily!! Which is why, in general, in the snow, I prefer to drive in a higher gear (1 = low, 5 = high) than normal. All my previous cars were MT, and sometimes I'd start in 2nd, and spend much time in 5th at 2000 rpm. Luckily, the 5EAT gives us that option as well! Admittedly, most ATs let you shift 1/2/D, but the 5EAT gives a bit more control.. HV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erito Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 I am curious if you are using round or oval studs in your Nokians. I believe I saw at the Gislaved website that oval studs significantly enhance the ice traction, compared to conventional round studs. Actually Nokian went one step further and i have quadrangular stud. Gives better grip in four directions, is durable and remains attached to the tyre. Due to its diamond shape, the stud bites into the road with its sharp end first. This multiple test-winner has been acclaimed for its excellent grip on ice. http://www.nokiantyres.com/passengercars_product_en?product=610495&name=NOKIAN+HAKKAPELIITTA+4 And In the olden days, we used studded tires all the time. Didn't help much unless you live on a hockey rink and drive less than 5 mph. Then the gov't banned the tires because they were scratching up concrete roads. I never noticed a difference between studs and decent studless snows performancewise. Studs are generally overrated unless you are always running on ice highways and even then...the ice wins. No, this is only true for someone who haven't experienced real-world winter with both types, studded new and un-studded new. As i wrote earlier, the studded is superior in EVERY condition but pavement /wet pavement. In the winter, we don't have alot of dry roads here. If the ¤%#!!@ salt has been sprinkled, you get ice in a couple of hours. The road-salt should be banned, and also un-studded winter tyres That would decrease the accidents in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 No, this is only true for someone who haven't experienced real-world winter with both types, studded new and un-studded new. As i wrote earlier, the studded is superior in EVERY condition but pavement /wet pavement. In the winter, we don't have alot of dry roads here. If the ¤%#!!@ salt has been sprinkled, you get ice in a couple of hours. The road-salt should be banned, and also un-studded winter tyres That would decrease the accidents in my opinion. I haven't driven the latest studded tire offerings but I did learn to drive in real world snow in RWD cars. If you're into hockey and I tell you that I learned a lot of great moves from Thomas Steen and Anders Hedberg, you'll know that I know snow and ice. I always have a jaundiced eye when it comes to reading reviews from laymen about a given tire's snow performance. As you know all too well, there are a lot of different types of snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 ........As i wrote earlier, the studded is superior in EVERY condition but pavement /wet pavement...... Is there really a performance penalty with studs on dry and wet pavement? Perhaps not. Consider this statement, taken from Police Fleet Manager magazine ( if you don't want to read the whole thing, just read the last 2 sentences): "From time to time the odd criticism is heard that the studs reduce the friction of studded tires on wet and dry pavement. Apparently, some 25-30 years ago, Calspan Corp. in the United States performed a comparison test between a summer tire and a studded winter tire. Not surprisingly, the winter tire had lower friction on dry pavement, since the winter (mud and snow) tires of that era had heavily blocked tread patterns that resulted in lower levels of friction, whether studs were fitted or not. Obviously, for the test to be a meaningful evaluation of the effects of studs on friction, they should have compared examples of the same winter tire with and without studs. Nevertheless, it seems that these early tests have entered the mythology of winter tires, and the unsupported claim that studs reduce friction has simply gained credibility through countless repetitions over succeeding decades. The argument of reduced friction of studded tires with studs on dry pavements is somewhat amazing. Dry pavement is the driving situation where the friction level is the highest and the risk of insufficient grip is lowest. Second, studs grind icy roads and make them rougher, and in that way drivers with studded tires help other drivers to improve their safety on the icy conditions that are high-risk situations. Winter tire testing normally concentrates on surfaces that are most risky for traffic safety: ice, snow, slush and wet road surfaces. Our aim is to develop tires that maximize traffic safety. We have not carried out braking tests of studded winter tires with and without studs on dry pavement. Neither have I ever seen such an evaluation in any magazine test. This issue has been clearly regarded as unessential. Our assumption is that tire behavior (of studded tires on dry pavement with and without studs) should be more or less similar to that on a wet surface. We have carried out tests of our tires on wet asphalt with and without studs. Braking distance was shorter when the tires were equipped with studs." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted September 29, 2006 Share Posted September 29, 2006 I have tried alot of different tires. Studded and not. Right now i am happy with the by far best winter tires i've ever tried. Nokian Hakkapelitta 4 studded........... Looks like the Hakka 4 has been superceded by the Hakka 5. See: http://www.ityre.com/en/tyres/catalog/nokian/model/19990/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erito Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Yes now you can buy the new Hakka 5, should be even better I'd like to try them, but when i change tires next time i guess there is Hakka 6 too Studs on dry and wet pavement is really good these days, and i don't think there is much difference studded/un-studded. The major difference is the sound from the tires. Vimy101, nice moves on the ice i bet! Sure there are alot of different types of snow and as long as it is pure dry packed snow it is the best thing to drive on if i may choose. Better than a dry summer pavement day! Anyway, i haven't tried all different tires, but i have been driving in all types of snow/ice/ with these and i like them. What is the english word for almost melted snow? like milkshake with crushed ice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 ............What is the english word for almost melted snow? like milkshake with crushed ice... Slush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erito Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 ahaa... Slush-puppie was a soft-drink here alot of years ago. In swedish it is almost the same, "slask" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandman Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Anyone have any thoughts on some good All-season rubber? I have a std legacy not a gt so i don't care for racing or anything Where do you live? How much winter driving do you do, on what kinds of roads? Who Dares Wins スバル Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSiWRX Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Original post: SO...then it's safe to say the Potenza's on the Spec B are NOT good for snow, eh? Damn...need to buy me some all-seasons. Although we don't get a whole lot of snow in DC. Followed by: i was up in tahoe with stock re's not bad, not good. still had to put on chain, when there was chain control. Whoa! Moosedaddy is speaking of the SpecB, which carries with them OEM "summer" tires, different from the GT and i models' all-seasons. So most definitely, no, the SpecB is not going to be the safest thing in the snow (or, for that matter, when temperatures really start dipping down). Yes, some good all-seasons are recommended. <-- I love Winky, my "periwinkle" (ABP) LGT! - Allen / Usual Suspect "DumboRAT" / One of the Three Stooges '16 Outback, '16 WRX, 7th Subaru Family Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 ahaa... Slush-puppie was a soft-drink here alot of years ago. In swedish it is almost the same, "slask" Erito: To someone in Alaska, slush puppie might mean sled dog. Are the Swedish, Norwegian, and Danish languages similar? In looking at the snow tire tests done by Motor magazine (http://motor.no/) some of the words are similar enough to English to figure out the meaning, but some have no relation to English. The easiest to figure out were "is", "sno", "akselerasjon", and "abs-bremsing". I think "slaps" is slush, and "stoy" is noise, but I am not 100% sure. Was interesting to see that in their 2005 winter tire test, the Michelin X-Ice North was the top rated studded tire. Must be part of the reason why Nokian and Gislaved have come out with new and improved studded tires for 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vimy101 Posted October 2, 2006 Share Posted October 2, 2006 Erito: To someone in Alaska, slush puppie might mean sled dog. Are the Swedish, Norwegian, and Danish languages similar? In looking at the snow tire tests done by Motor magazine (http://motor.no/) some of the words are similar enough to English to figure out the meaning, but some have no relation to English. The easiest to figure out were "is", "sno", "akselerasjon", and "abs-bremsing". I think "slaps" is slush, and "stoy" is noise, but I am not 100% sure. Was interesting to see that in their 2005 winter tire test, the Michelin X-Ice North was the top rated studded tire. Must be part of the reason why Nokian and Gislaved have come out with new and improved studded tires for 2006. Danish, Norweigian and Swedish all come from a Germanic root and are more like dialects of each other. Now Finnish and its Estonian dialect are completely different from anything and has its roots in Hungary and India. Weird. Even the grammar is completely different than other Western languages and doesn't contain pronouns or gender applications among other things as I understand it. My wife is a second generation Estonian and a fluent speaker. She can't even begin to describe the differences between Estonian and English because there are no comparisons that can be translatable. Truly foreign lauguage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erito Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 outahere, yes it is true what Vimy101 writes about the languages. Swedish and Norwegian are the most like eachother and no problem to understand. Danish is abit harder but still not to hard to understand. Finnish is not a chance in the world to understand But in Finland, most of the people know swedish because they learn it at school and Finland, Norway, Denmark, Germany and the baltic countries used to be Swedish (long time ago). About the winter tire test there are alot of them every year. The two tires always in the top three are Nokian Hakkapelitta and Gislaved Nordfrost. In some tests last year Michelin X-Ice North was the winner. Here is my house if you have google earth longitude=17.5198 latitude=62.3955 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STG Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 I was wondering what to expect from my Legacy in the snow this year? I just hydro-planed yesterday for the first time, and it got me to thinking. Obviously the AWD is great, but what about these Yokohama Advants? I'd hate to think that with the AWD the tires would ruin it. Ed If you gotta ask, expect to be involved in a one car accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 ......Finnish is not a chance in the world to understand ..... That's funny Erito, do you know the english translation for these Norwegian words (in the context of tire tests): manoverbane kjorefolelse unnamanover torr vei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erito Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 outahere, yes i can translate norwegian for you, but my english isn't perfect. I hope you understand anyway manoverbane = lap-circut with sharp turns. Handling-course maby? kjorefolelse = not sure, but maby driving-feel, sensibility. unnamanover torr vei = obsticle avoidance in dry road condition. In sweden we call it "The Elk test". How good it handles when trying to dodge an elk. correct me if i'm wrong anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itzed Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 If you gotta ask, expect to be involved in a one car accident. I really don't understand why you would say something like that. I'm 44 years old, have driven over 1 million miles in my life so far, and have never been involved in an accident. I've driven thousands of miles in snow and on ice. I've owned a dozen cars of all makes, including Porsche, BMW, VW, Chevy, Honda, and Audi, - multiple models within those lines. Some cars just handle better in the snow than others. My 1980 Scirocco was great because of the low center of gravity and the weight being right over the front wheels. My Chevy Lumina was always good in the snow. My Honda Civic SI had no traction at all in the wet or the snow, regardless of what tires I put on it - just too light and poorly distributed weight. This is my first Subaru and I've only driven it since July. The car "feels" light, sort of like my Civic did, and the low profile tires make me wonder what it will be like, regardless of the AWD. In fact, one of my employees had an Acura with AWD last winter, low profile tires, and it was aweful in the snow. She complained all the time. I expect a little more out of the Legacy, but I thought it was a worthwhile question to hear other people's experiences, and see if I need to plan on buying new wheels and winter tires or whatever, which I've never done for a car. Maybe I should have explained all that first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjundi Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 What cracks me up is that people are so adament on winter tires over all-seasons or your going to crack up your car. Especially when you see they live in New England urban areas. I have lived all my driving years where some winter driving exists. I owned winter tires once and yes they are superior on snow/ice for the short life they lasted (Blizzack WS-50). However I have driven incident free for 20 years now driving in the snow with all-season tires (one niave winter on summer tires in college). All my close friends/relatives never an incident in the winter except for a car or two sliding into them where tires are irrelevant when your already stopped between cars. Some of these friends are die hard skiers who leave no matter what the conditions who own AWD's/all-seasons or plain FWD. My favorite ride is a friend with a junker conversion van with get this plain all-seasons who makes it decently in raging snow storms on route to the moutains. Interestingly I do know one person with winter tires, a BMW owner which makes perfect sense, but he cannot drive in the snow since I have known him in college. I agree winter tires are better and its up to an individual to justify the cost/changeover hassle/storage factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erito Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 I would say it is up to you to wear what tires you want if it weren't for the sake of MY life. Don't we all prefer to drive along fellows WITH winter tires on?! Sliding onto the opposite lane and wrecking my car and me and my familys life isn't worth the small cost of winter tires and the storage/hassle factors. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjundi Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 I would say it is up to you to wear what tires you want if it weren't for the sake of MY life. Don't we all prefer to drive along fellows WITH winter tires on?! Sliding onto the opposite lane and wrecking my car and me and my familys life isn't worth the small cost of winter tires and the storage/hassle factors. Just my opinion. I agree it would be nice as would world peace. It ain't happening at least in my locale. However they plow/sand/salt our roads heavily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyXX Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Has anyone have experience with Goodyear Nordics? I'm thinking of ordering a set. It's reasonably priced at 103 (CDN) so that's what...90 US? http://images.canadiantire.ca/media/images/Assortments/PrimaryAssortments/Automotive/Tires/WinterTires/0021471_450_CC_5b4dd.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.