Will Subaru's direction make your current Suby your last?

[JohnnyT]

Like ATB, I also clicked the wrong button. Damn those trick questions. My Yes should be a No.

 

This is my 3rd Legacy: '90 L AWD 5 spd, '04 35th Anniversary L 5spd and now the '06 2.5 GT Limited, and yes with a 5spd... Love it! My first car was a 1978 DL 5spd wagon. In fact the only cars I've ever owned were Subarus. I guess you can say I'm a lifer.

[krzyss]

They need to develop diesel first. I think Europe will be first to get it as Subaru sales there may double just by offering it.

 

Krzys

[wukindada]

Bottom line.....If there is no LGT wagon in 09, I'll be moving on:(

[tantal]

Subaru keeping me as a customer? Here's what has to be available:

 

1) Manual transmission

2) NOT fwd (prefer rwd, but will take awd)

3) Manual transmission

4) Body style MUST be either a Wagon or a Coupe. No sedans (for me).

5) Manual transmission

6) Exceptional handling (OK the current LGT barely meets this, but its a wagon)

7) Manual transmission

8) At least good engine power - 200 hp, 220 lb ft minimum.

9) Manual transmission

10) Good styling, inside and out. Near luxury class at least.

 

And of course the car must be available with a manual transmission.

 

My '05 GT wagon fits this bill perfectly, although I would like stiffer springs. With this vehicle dropped, I won't even bother visiting a subaru dealer whether I'm replacing my A4 or my LGT in the next few years.

 

Hope that clears things up. And if I didn't mention it I'd like a manual transmission, please, I wont even bother test driving an automatic, even if (especially if) it's a very high performance fun car like an M3 or M5. Manual.

[Guest]

+1

 

Manual or no Subaru.

[Claw]

What direction, or lack thereof of?

 

I'm quite happy with Subaru's current direction. All those "discontinued Legacy Wagon" talk is just rumor, I don't see any real hard evidence that it has been discountinued.

 

We still get the 5spd Legacy Wagon in Canada, so yes.. I am quite happy with their long term outlook.

 

[SLegacy99]

I totally agree with the manual transmission thing.

[SLegacy99]

I would never drive a hybrid... as long as they take good old gasoline, they haven't solved any problems.

 

 

Ok, but the point of a hybrid is not to replace gasoline, its to add more power so you can use a smaller more fuel efficient engine. So really, Subaru should take the EJ25, make it a hybrid, and then they would have an engine that has hp in the 200s and get 38 mpg or there abouts. MORE POWER, LESS FUEL! Sounds like a good deal to me.

[rodan]

An LGT sedan Spec B/STi in '08-'09 would seriously interest me if it had 300+HP, 6MT with deep overdrive for highway, and STI Brembos. Oh, and some decent color choices.

 

If Subaru wants to sell upmarket sedans, they need to keep up with the Joneses. The LGT was, and still is a great car for the money, and has great potential. But the competition hasn't stood still.

 

Otherwise, I'll continue to build what I want in the '05. Honestly, I'm more likely to keep the '05, and buy a 'fun' car when it's paid off (some sort of roadster/911/C5 Zo6...).

[TurboAWD]

As with most families, there's two car decisions to make in our household. I'm extremely finicky with my cars, while my wife is easier to please.

 

Bottom line is that unless Subaru brings an STi Legacy, I have doubts that my car will ever be a Subaru. But you never know. Meanwhile, my wife absolutely loves each Subaru we've bought "for her" (1999 Legacy GT wagon, 2002 Outback wagon and now a 2006 OB XT.) And since she doesn't do the manual shift thing, being limited to a slushbox isn't an issue.

 

So unless Subaru seriously screws up in some way, I see us having at least one Subaru in our garage for a long time to come.

[JonFo]

Unless they totally change direction, I figure at least one more subby for my household.

 

As for the transmission thing, some of you guys need to go test-drive an Audi 3.6 A3 with the DSG transmission. You will never, ever want a manual again, I promise.

 

What I’d love is:

 

STI Wagon with 3.0 six (turbo’d up to 350HP) coupled to a DSG-like transmission. Exterior kept subtle enough to still fly past cops at +20MPH and still not get a chase

 

I’d also like a torque monster Diesel with a six or seven speed auto in a LegacyGT wagon format. That would be a blast.

 

Need a hybrid WRX to replace old ’04 WRX sport wagon as well. Keep the hatch format.

 

Subbies owned / purchased: 93 Legacy wagon, 95 Legacy sedan, 97 SVX, 04 WRX Sport wagon, 05 LegacyGT wagon.

[Garandman]

As with most families, there's two car decisions to make in our household. I'm extremely finicky with my cars, while my wife is easier to please.

 

Bottom line is that unless Subaru brings an STi Legacy, I have doubts that my car will ever be a Subaru. But you never know. Meanwhile, my wife absolutely loves each Subaru we've bought "for her" (1999 Legacy GT wagon, 2002 Outback wagon and now a 2006 OB XT.) And since she doesn't do the manual shift thing, being limited to a slushbox isn't an issue.

 

So unless Subaru seriously screws up in some way, I see us having at least one Subaru in our garage for a long time to come.

 

I'm really glad you posted, as some Subaru loyalists don't believe how condescending other marque owners can be towards Subaru, and now we have an example right here on LGT!

[SWP-LegacyGT]

Subaru does what most companies can't: Sell cars that don't need to be sold by a sales person.

 

I've got 2 Subaru's in my family, one is a 2005 2.5RS wagon (Wife's car) and mine the 2005 LegacyGT.

 

Both are Automatics and I've driven sticks before but honestly all the fuss over "control" of the car is some lame excuse by drivers that : A) don't know how to drive in the first place or B) the "you bought an F'ning slushbox you P*ssy!". My former car being a 6 speed manual S4, I welcomed the comfort of having an Auto in city/highway driving.

 

Anyways... to the OP's question.... I voted "Yes" because Subaru did a couple things right on the 2005 line up's that really they have been f*cking up with the 2006 and now 2007's; They gave us choice.

 

I got a car with black cloth, heated seats, no moonroof and spoiler. I could've gotten a car with black leather, power seats, moonroof and a spoiler, or a car with beige leather, power seats + heated seats, moonroof and no spoiler... or I could've gotten a car with beige cloth heated seats, no moonroof and no spoiler.

 

I could go on and on with the color combo's but here's a small debt of gratitude I owe to Subaru for doing right (IMO) ALWAYS in the first model years of a refreshed line.... CHOICE!

 

Since 2008's are going to be coming up here pretty fast, I'm excited to see all the people start to drool over them because we are in fact getting (basically) the '07 JDM model for our 2008. I know quite a few guys that are going to ditch their '05's for the new model refresh and I'm still reserved on whether or not I'm going to, but the chance is that you'll get an amazing choice on options, power and style.

 

I for one love the '05 up legacy look (sans the chromed headlights... probably the WORST move on Subaru's part) but overall the car looks and drives great.

 

As long as Subaru continues to innovate and change (for the better) I will appreciate them as a car company. I know the biggest thing on my agenda is a safe reliable car for both me and my wife. Subaru covers both of those.

 

So will both of my 2005 Subbie's last even though the refresh of the Legacy and Impreza line is coming up in '08? You bet. I expect to always have at least 1 Subaru in my garage as they are one of the best cars for the money....and piece of mind.

[TurboAWD]

VVG stated:

"I'm really glad you posted, as some Subaru loyalists don't believe how condescending other marque owners can be towards Subaru, and now we have an example right here on LGT!"

 

PDX-Legacy GT stated:

"...but honestly all the fuss over "control" of the car is some lame excuse by drivers that : A) don't know how to drive in the first place or B) the "you bought an F'ning slushbox you P*ssy!". My former car being a 6 speed manual S4, I welcomed the comfort of having an Auto in city/highway driving."

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

VVG: If you read my post and took it as a "condescending", you got it all wrong.

 

My saying I'm "finicky" means I'm no different than 99% of auto enthusiasts who hang out on Internet owner/fan sites. And my saying my wife is "easier to please" only means that in her case, the decision process is easier. She wanted another Outback, while I personally would have preferred a Legacy GT wagon, but since the Legacy GT wagon wasn't available with Navi, which we wanted, this made the process a quick one.

 

Maybe you should see one of my other posts made in recent days, where I said: "I'm very impressed with the refinement and quality of the new Subarus (having gone through a 99 Legacy GT and 02 Outback) and I even remarked on the way home from the dealer that if Subaru has come this far, there's no point in spending extra money on an Audi in the future. I personally don't think the auto rags have given Subaru enough credit for their accomplishments in this area."

 

It's unfortunate that my post was apparently so misunderstood. But sometimes it seems people are looking for such things in an attempt to justify their own prejudices.

 

PDX: What can I say? That's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. However, while I don't consider you or anyone else to be a "pussy" for owning an automatic, I take exception to the allusion you make that I fall into a group of people that "don't know how to drive" and call automatic owner's rude names.

 

For us, dealing with substantial traffic isn't an issue. And like a lot of people, I'm sure the day will come when I prefer an automatic myself. But for now, anyway, this is the choice I and millions like me make. If Subaru puts a DSG in an upcoming STi Legacy, that will change in short order. (And BTW, that will mean that I'll have two Subaru's - so much for my being an apparent snob.)

 

If my post appears a bit over-stated, I apologize. But two successive posts in which people make errant assumptions about the kind of person I am gets me a tad upset.

[Guest]

PDX - your post does not make sense. You want choice, but you also blast those who want to have choice of transmisson. WTF? If you want slushbox, have it, noone of those enthusiast here who moan lack of LGT wagon with manual transmission, deny you that choice.

[aaykay]

I would absolutely love it if Subaru could offer a 5-speed Automatic (or 6-speed Auto) with "sportshift" control, across the line, with the SI-Drive. I have no problems with Subaru offering a manual transmission, as long as they don't skimp on the Auto option, across the line-up, including the Impreza STi, the Spec B or STi Legacy. They should absolutely offer a Wagon Impreza STi too.

 

"Purists" might scream bloody murder about a 6-speed Automatic for the STi but as long as they get their 6-speed manual, why should it matter ?? Why should they care if a 6-speed Automatic exists ?

 

I don't drive manuals nor do I want to drive manual-equipped cars but I don't want to be denied the pleasure of a well setup suspension like the STi, a well weighted and quick steering setup, the front/center/rear diffs, the 300hp/torque and all other goodies that are currently boxed into the manual-only area. I want all of that to also appear in a version with a 6-speed Automatic with sportshift and SI-Drive.

[aaykay]

The current lame WRX Auto with the 4-speed EAT and no sportshift, is a shame, especially since it is only available in the "Limited" trim. Why should one have to pay 1000's of additional dollars and spring for the "limited" to get an Auto in the WRX ?

 

The product planner who decided to put a 4EAT in the WRX with no sportshift control (instead of a 5EAT + SI-Drive and Sportshift), should be sent into early retirement with all retirement benefits denied.

[IwannaSportSedan]

Why do people who build, market, and sell performance cars have trouble with these issues?

 

Sporty cars should have the option of a manual transmission. OR manual trans standard, with automatic optional.

 

And if a transmission with "sport shifting" is available, why not have it available as said automatic?

 

is this really so difficult?

 

in the words of a will farrel character: "I Feel like I'm taking CRAZY PILLS!"

[TurboAWD]

Why do people who build, market, and sell performance cars have trouble with these issues?

 

Sporty cars should have the option of a manual transmission. OR manual trans standard, with automatic optional.

 

And if a transmission with "sport shifting" is available, why not have it available as said automatic?

 

is this really so difficult?

 

in the words of a will farrel character: "I Feel like I'm taking CRAZY PILLS!"

 

There are reasons for this, and it isn't any kind of conspiracy to drive car people nuts or anything.

 

First, the "manual only" limitation is generally something you only find in relatively limited production, very high performance cars. Examples are cars like the WRX STi, the Evo's, Skyline GTR's, Lotus Elise, Ford Mustang Cobra, etc. Cars like the Audi S4 or BMW M3 don't usually fall under this because these cars actually sell in fairly high numbers.

 

Next, manual transmissions are simpler mechancially than automatic transmissions, and it is easier and less expensive to make a strong manual transmission than it is to "build up" an automatic. Over the years, there have been many cars that manufacturers wanted to equip with automatics, but it was cost prohibitive to strengthen the existing automatic to deal with the higher HP or torque, so they didn't bother.

 

Finally, since these cars are higher performance, more expensive and oftenn times harder to get, the assumed customer base is going to be made up of true enthusiasts, not average Joe's perusing the dealer lot looking for a steal. And these enthusiasts, by margins of 8 or 9 to 1, tend to prefer manual transmissions. (There are exceptions to his, kind of, with transmissions like the Ford C4 auto, which was often stronger and more capable than the current Ford manuals, until the current generation Tremec 5 and 6 speeds came along.)

 

Combine these things, and you have the answer as to why higher performance cars often do not have the automatic option.

 

So why aren't MANUALS's available on certain cars? I think in many, if not most cases, this is simply a matter of a manufacturer trying to keep their costs down by simplifying production.

 

This is the way I have always understood this issue, but I'd encourage others to weigh in, too, of course.

[Guest]

This is the way I have always understood this issue, but I'd encourage others to weigh in, too, of course.

 

There are also stupid goverment regulations. AFAIK as in the U.S. each engine/transmission combination needs to crash tested, and that supposedly costs a lot of money. There is no such requirement in Europe.

 

I don't know if that explains it's all, but why Europeans have so much better choice of engines/transmissions. Look at VAG's cars.

 

Anyway, the real culprit is the stupid lazy American consumer....

[aaykay]

Combine these things, and you have the answer as to why higher performance cars often do not have the automatic option.

.

 

Mercedes highest performance AMG cars are exclusively Automatic. The lower performance Mercedes cars do come in manual...

 

Also, the BMW "M" cars sold in Europe are more popular with the SMG manual than the stick-shifted manual, which obviously have the non-torque-converter-true-manual-beneath but can be driven completely automatically....shifts faster than a stick-shifted manual car too.

[fzanetti]

No more performance wagon....

 

Very few chances for me to come back to Subaru once I sell mine down the road... Unless some things change....

 

Flavio Zanetti

Boston, MA

[fzanetti]

Mercedes highest performance AMG cars are exclusively Automatic. The lower performance Mercedes cars do come in manual...

 

Also, the BMW "M" cars sold in Europe are more popular with the SMG manual than the stick-shifted manual, which obviously have the non-torque-converter-true-manual-beneath but can be driven completely automatically....shifts faster than a stick-shifted manual car too.

 

Well, that's something different than the torque starving 5EAT Subaru puts on our cars....

 

Same thing with the new VAG DSG, great trannie!!!!

 

Flavio Zanetti

Boston, MA

[fzanetti]

Subaru keeping me as a customer? Here's what has to be available:

 

1) Manual transmission

2) NOT fwd (prefer rwd, but will take awd)

3) Manual transmission

4) Body style MUST be either a Wagon or a Coupe. No sedans (for me).

5) Manual transmission

6) Exceptional handling (OK the current LGT barely meets this, but its a wagon)

7) Manual transmission

8) At least good engine power - 200 hp, 220 lb ft minimum.

9) Manual transmission

10) Good styling, inside and out. Near luxury class at least.

 

And of course the car must be available with a manual transmission.

 

My '05 GT wagon fits this bill perfectly, although I would like stiffer springs. With this vehicle dropped, I won't even bother visiting a subaru dealer whether I'm replacing my A4 or my LGT in the next few years.

 

Hope that clears things up. And if I didn't mention it I'd like a manual transmission, please, I wont even bother test driving an automatic, even if (especially if) it's a very high performance fun car like an M3 or M5. Manual.

 

Couldn't agree with you more!!!

 

Make mine your words man!!!

 

Flavio Zanetti

Boston, MA

[wukindada]

^^ Now the paddle shifters & rumored 6 or 7 speed AT for the LGT has my interest:)