**Beware of Russell Subaru in Maryland**

[zach999]

RIPPED OFF FROM RUSSELL SUBARU

To anyone in the Maryland area that is thinking about buying a subaru. No doubt subaru makes a great car but the subaru dealership (Russell) I dealt with in particular pulled the old bait and switch on me. In the end the dealership ripped me off by about $4K.

Let me explain how they did this to me so no one else out there will make the same stupid mistake I made. First I was trading in a 2006 2.5i wagon that I loved but unfortunately did not have enough horsepower for me. The 2.5i wagon was purchased for ~$21.8K plus taxes and I had the car for about 6 weeks and put about 1600 miles on it. I had put around $2K down so with taxes my lien on that car was $21.7. The salesman told me that the 2005 LGT that I was thinking of purchasing had a value of $24,995. The 05 LGT was pretty nice with leather, electronic dimming rear-view mirror and e-compass but it was demo car with over 6,000 miles on it.

The First Offer (Verbal):

The Salesman offered me $550/month for 6 years which I told him I could not and would not do. I stated if he could get $2K out of the deal we could be around $500/month for 6 years. Given the car was a demo and had 6,000 miles on it and my 2.5i was barely used I figured this would not be a problem. He stated my 06 2.5i was currently in the deal at about $17.5K but he was trying to increase the price of my trade in to make it work.

Second Offer Accepted (Verbal):

2 hours later the salesman called me back and told me 6 years at $509/month. I accepted and stated I would be in tomorrow morning to sign the paperwork. When I showed up I purchased the extended warranty for $1,400 more. That took me to $530/month.

Paperwork Bait & Switch:

As I was in an extreme rush that morning I saw the monthly for $530/month and I signed. What I did not pick up was that they added another year onto the loan. When I was going thru the paperwork, I requested from the finance guy (Jim Murray prepared the financial paperwork and Neil Gillis approved the rigged deal) that he show me the values for my trade-in and the value for the LGT demo car. He stated he could not do this because of Maryland law regarding the paperwork but everything was properly taken care of. I SHOULD HAVE DEMANDED THIS FROM JIM MURRAY BECAUSE I WOULD HAVE CAUGHT THE RIP OFF, IF HE GAVE ME THE VALUES FOR BOTH VEHICLES…but I was in a rush to goto work that morning. So Russell blurred the math so I was just looking at one #, that was a composite (total new loan Amount). No one informed me of the change in term of the loan (not the salesperson who I told from the beginning I could not do a 7-year loan and not the finance guy who I had a conversation with how I could not do a 7 or 8 yr loan).

After the dust had settled on the car I was reviewing my paperwork and I noticed (this was about 3 weeks later) the 84 months on the loan. I called my salesperson immediately and I wanted him to check for an error. He called back and stated that the finance people had stated there was not an error but he did say he remembered the deal should have been for 6 years at the verbally agreed price.

Experience with the GM:

When I had a talk with Rick Baker, the GM of the dealership, he stated everything on his end was in order. I asked him if he had talked to his salesman and he stated he has no need to. A GM HAS NO NEED TO TALK TO HIS SALESMAN WHEN THERE IS A DISPUTE ON THE DEAL HIS SALESPERSON BROKERED. SHADY, SHADY. I asked Rick why I would negotiate a worse deal than the first offer at 6yr, $550. If I had just extended the 6yr, $550 to a 7th Year I would have been well $500/month (more like $480/month). Rick did not respond. This is exactly why car dealerships have the worst reputation and we all hate buying cars (think how much we love our cars and how we all hate dealing with dealerships). I call what happened to me FRAUD/DECEIT. Rick did not like the word, “fraud”.

End Result:

That means I purchased a demo 05 LGT with >6,000 miles on it for almost $27K. This same dealership lists 05 LGTs for $22.4K in the Local Examiner Paper all the time. Now I agree I should have reviewed the paperwork more thoroughly but the worst part is I was a financial analyst for 8 years and I should have caught this. Thats a $4K reading lesson I just took. I hope no one has to ever go thru what I went thru.

I reported the dealer to subaru and unfortunately they can not do anything except give you a case# (915381). Next stop the BBB, then the local States Attorney Office.

Please contact me if anyone else has had a bad experience with Russell Subaru.

Zach Shamoo

[Spec B]

That is a sad story..I am very sorry! Sounds like Fraud to me..

 

Shame on you for not reviewing the document you signed. I am sure most folks do not look closely. I personally always look at the monthly payment and the term...thats all.

 

I would contact an attorney and see if you have any legal remedy. Sometimes the threat of a lawsuit will make the dealer a little more willing to do the right thing.

 

Best of luck.

[DKB_SATX]

Okay...

 

They did jerk you around. I do not question that. They did not, however, conceal that fact from you since the paperwork you signed did not match what the salesman talked about, they simply said one thing, wrote another on paper and you signed it without reading. I don't even sign a credit card slip at a restaurant without reading it, much less a promise to pay more than the price of my first car every month for some number of months exceeding 1.

 

If I had to guess, the line you got about Maryland law on the paperwork really meant that he's not REQUIRED by Maryland law to give you what you requested, and he's a lazy shiftless finance con-man intent upon selling you gap coverage and credit-life, so he's going to try to talk you out of a) anything that would cause him to do work and b) anything that might alert you to the state of affairs with the "deal" you just made. I don't know anything specific about Maryland law, however, so Maryland lawyers please don't berate me on that point if I'm incorrect.

 

So you didn't read the paperwork for 3 weeks? I agree with you that the dealership screwed you, but you definitely didn't it difficult for them to do so. Caveat emptor.

[rickten]

wow thats horrible. I'm getting ready to purchase a Legacy and I"m feeling like I should bring a calculator with me and just plop it down right on the table while we negotiate just so I can run the numbers MYSELF.

[Spec B]

^^

 

Gotta bring a calculator! doesn;t matter if you are buying a Suby or a Lex..those dealers are all the same.

[elGT]

My dealership in Boston tried to do a very similar scam on me when I bought my 2005 LGT. I caught it and called them on it, and they were like "oh, is that what we agreed on?" I went nuts and started swearing at them and walking out of the dealership, and boy didn't they get the deal correct pretty quick. You have always got to watch what you are signing at car dealerships, everywhere really, but especially at dealerships. That sucks about your purchase, but don't let it sour you on your sweet ride!

[stellasubie]

HOLY CRAP!

 

I am so sorry this happened to you. We all hear about these things happening, and it sucks. There may be a possible remedy, and that would be contacting the BBB as well as the state attorney general.

 

I had a similar experience almost happen to me several years ago, and I only got out of it becuase of my persistence and patience going through the paperwork prior to signing. They obviously lied when they said the could not show you the value of the car and your trade in. You have the right to see any and all paperwork pertaining to any purchase you make.

 

I would like to give some advice that served me well whenI just bought my 2.5i a month ago, and it may help others avoid getting into your situation.

 

First, I researched the HELL out of the car, I went to cars101.com (probably the best subaru website around, has all information about all subarus.) I went to all the dealerships in my area and checked them out, drove 4 or 5 models and got a feel for how they do business. (are they pushy, etc) This was over the course of several months, I was very patient in my research.

 

Second, when I knew the exact model I wanted, and the color, and the options, I emailed all of the dealerships in my area asking for a bottom dollar price. Some dealerships told me I would have to come in to get the best price, others gave me a price. I made an oppointment with the dealership that offered me the best price to drive the car.

 

When I got to the dealership, the salesman told me he did not have the car I wanted, but had a similar (it was a limited instead of an SE) but he could get the car in 2-3 days if I wanted it. This was ok with me becuase I was only there to drive the car and see how I liked the salesperson.

 

After I drove the car, I left, without discussing the price. Later, I called my bank and arranged financing. I told them the approx price, and they ran my credit and had an offer for financing to me in minutes. ( I bank at a small community credit union where they know me - your expereince may vary.) I would reccomened always, always, always - have the financing arranged before you do any negotiation with the dealership. That is the #1 way to avoid any trickery.

 

I also talked to the salesman about my trade, and got them to give me an offer in writing.

 

So then I emailed the salesperson to give me the lowest rock bottom price on the car I wanted and to confirm he could get it. He gave me the price, and it was exactly the same as what he had told me a few days prior. I had him work up a "buyers order" and send it to me and to my bank.

 

Two days later, he called me and told me he had my car and it was ready to be picked up. By then, the bank had deposited the money for the car in my account, and I went to the dealership to pick up my new car. I wrote them a check, they took my trade (which was paid for) and everything matched with what I had negotiated previously.

 

All in all, I was at the dealership for about 45 minutes taking care of the paperwork, and most of that was spent waiting for the finance guy to finish up with another customer.

 

So my advice is always, always - do your research, be patient, wait for the best deal, and get it in writing. And of course, secure your financing prior to buying the car.

 

Hope that may help someone else avoid getting into a similar situation.

[DKB_SATX]

wow thats horrible. I'm getting ready to purchase a Legacy and I"m feeling like I should bring a calculator with me and just plop it down right on the table while we negotiate just so I can run the numbers MYSELF.

 

Secure your own financing. Go to your credit union, bank, whatever and find out what their best deal is, and read the terms. Go in armed with that any time you buy a new car, and challenge the finance guy to beat it. Sometimes they can... My LGT is financed through Chase (Subaru) because they beat my credit union by 1% on similar terms.

 

Read it all. It's not really that hard... 98% of the finance contract is boilerplate, the important bits are the variables they print. Scan the boilerplate but read EVERY SINGLE blank they did or did not fill in. You're promising to pay money every month for a long time (almost always TOO long for it to be a good deal, but that's another soapbox to get on.) Know exactly what you're promising before you sign it, because you are making a promise to pay, even if you didn't do your due diligence you have to pay it.

 

It's not a really scary thing... if they don't put something in writing, they can't enforce it... but if you sign what they put in writing, they can.

 

Caveat emptor.

[LawGT]

I'm sorry that this happened to you. If I were you, I would contact a local attorney ASAP, explain him/her the story, show them all the paperwork, and see if there is something that can be done.

 

In my very limited knowledge of contract law, one of the requirements of a contract is having the proverbial "meeting of the minds." Contracts are signed and "agreed to" all the time only to be later the subject of litigation, reformation, or even cancellation. Contracts can also be voided if induced into by fraud, duress, etc. What you describe smells like fraud.

 

Shame on you for not reading what you sign, but, like I said, go see an attorney ASAP!

[HansGT]

didn't read it all, but when i saw monthly talk first off....oh boy. never discuss what you want to pay per month. they work the numbers and always make out. get it in your head what you will pay for the car. know your finance %'s and negotiate on overall price then work out payments last.

[jagcars26]

Keywords= Caveat emptor.

And you were a financial analyst?sign something you didn't read?wait 3 weeks to read it? Holy moly.

 

Next time take an extended test drive and do your homework.

[Gohmer1]

Ok, yeah, you made mistakes. But you were 100% right going to the boards to post this. That was really a messed up thing for them to do, and I hope they lose business because they wouldn't fix their mistake.

 

Don't they know that one dissatisfied customer tells a BUNCH of people about their terrible experience, while a satisfied customer is much less apt to spill their guts???

 

G

[hondas123]

Sorry to hear...

 

FIRST ....never base your negotiating on the monthly payment amount. Dealerships LOVE THIS.

 

1.Always know the value of your trade by using www.kelleybluebook.com or others.

 

2.Know the approximate purchase price of the car your purchasing.

 

3.Figure the difference between the two. Factor in if you still have a lien on your trade.

 

4. Know what's available to you for interest rates.

 

5. Use a loan calculator to figure your monthly payment. http://www.planningtips.com/cgi-bin/simple.pl

 

6. NEVER sign any paperwork while in a rush. Take your time and read everything.

 

Best of luck.

[TravisS]

+eleventybillion to getting your own financing first!

 

I spent significantly more time ensuring I had the loan I wanted before I even searched for the car.

When I went to the dealership they flat out told me they couldn't beat the financing I already had. All told I was in the dealership for < 3 hours, and only that long because of the time it takes to process paper work. And now I have a fully loaded '05 LGT for $330/month for 5 years.

 

Sorry to hear about what happened, that does really really suck, and is exactly why you shouldn't go through a dealership for financing, unless you pay attention to all of the fine details.

[Th3Franz]

"Stealership" for a reason. Sorry to hear that. Man.. $27k for an 05 LGT with 6000 miles.. ouch.

[dammitjim]

Maybe my math is off, but at $530/month for 6 - 7 years I get:

 

72 months - $38,160

84 months - $44,520

 

Gotta bring a calculator man.

[Elec]

$509 to $530 on a 6 year loan for that $1400 warranty would have been roughly correct, since $1400 divided by 72 months is $19.44 a month.

 

You ate about $4k of negative equity in your trade if you owed $21.7 but took the offered $17.5, so you were financing that, plus the ext. warranty for around $5500 added onto the real cost of the LGT. Assuming you paid the asking price of $24,500, you're up to $30k. Tax, title, and license may have been a couple grand more than that, and the total loan could have been for around $35-36k, depending on interest rate.

 

That still should have been around a $500 a month payment for 72 months. $530 a month over 84 months is damn near a $45k loan, which is ridiculous for a Legacy of any sort, especially a used one

[Jon in CT]

It looks like the payoff amount on the loan for his 6-week-old 2006 2.5i wagon was about $21,500 (he doesn't seem to know exactly what it was) and the dealership was offering him $17,500 for it as a trade-in. So it looks like he was $4,000 in the hole before he even started buying the 2005 LGT wagon demo. Could that be why he thinks he was cheated out of $4,000 bucks?

 

It appears he was upside down by $4,000 on his 2.5i loan after he'd payed $2,000 as a down payment for it. That's $6,000 for just six weeks and 1,600 miles of 2006 Legacy 2.5i wagon ownership. And then he didn't even like the 2.5i.

[Workinearly]

I've had all sorts of crap tried on me over the years but I won't burden you guys with the details. I will say that when I bought my OBXT a few weeks back the deal came down to a pi$$ing contest over $500. I won the battle but when the paperwork was drawn up I caught the SOB's slipping the $500 back in. When I challenged them all I got was sheepish laughter, some mumbling and a fresh doc minus the attempted theft. I bought, BTW, an 06 XT LTD tornado car for 25.5K and got 16.5K in trade, sight unseen, for my 02 MINI Cooper S that I paid 19.7 for new.

 

As was mentioned above, DO NOT base a deal on monthly payments. Figure that out ahead of time for heaven's sake. Know what the car and your trade are worth and take documentation from Edmunds or other sources with you. Keep it in your pocket until you need it. You might get a better deal than you expect. When the salesman asks what you want the payments to be or if you will be financing look him dead in the eye and ask him what the hell that has to do with the price of the car. Negotiate your trade in's value AFTER you've wrestled with them over every dollar on the new car. Above all be ready to walk away even if you are close. The salesman will ALWAYS call you back under those circumstances. Most salesmen will lie their asses off so go in with that in mind. Be polite but don't ever let the salesman gain control over the sale. After all, YOU are the one who has the dough!

 

Oh yeah, go see a lawyer. Depending on your state's laws you may have recourse.

[brett s]

Definitely got screwed, but you were a willing participant...

 

Trading a car 6 weeks old means you're already screwing yourself badly, signing any sort of financial paperwork without reading all details is just plain dumb. Bitch all you like, but you're the guy that did the deal - there wasn't a gun to your head.

 

Lawyer = waste of time, since the seller signed everything. Haven't seen a loan contract yet that didn't detail the terms, including the payment/interest rate/number of payments...

[zach999]

No doubt trading in a car with only 6 weeks was asking for punishment but that was a decision I was cognizant of and so I don't mind it but the fraud part which I could have caught with some attention to detail is the part that makes me crazy mad. But I have a made a decison to post and get well deserved ridicule for being a dumb ass so that others don't make my same mistake. You see I will live through a $4K loss (over time and bitterly) and at I will learn from this mistake that hopefully this will be the worst purchasing decision of my life (plex lord I promise to pay attention). You know part of this is how great a car subie can make causing how excited I was of the purchase combined with a crazy busy work week. Damn subie for making a great car but damn that RUSSELL SUBARU located in Catonsville, MD on Rt 40 for cheating me. Lastly I'll damn myself. Appreciate all the comments - good and bad. Good night people and never sign any contract with serious $ ramifications before careful review.

 

Zach

Dumbass that RUSSELL SUBARU on Rt40 in Catonsville, MD ripped off

[twisted]

Of course seek legal advise........

 

but if nothing works...before u leave ur lawyers office ask him/her if u can do the following

 

-register a domain

-create a site explaining ur situation

-make a huge picket sign and stand outside the dealership but not on their property and let potential buyers see you on saturdays....then watch their business go down

 

let ur picket sign read "This CAr deALer IS A THIEF. Visit www.xyz.com"

but dont put the dealers name on the picket sign...but only on ur web site.

 

so u my not get ur money back but u can hurt their business some and get mental satisfaction right?!

[andrew_j]

Are you sure they presented all proper paperwork? Ask the state what is required. Our state (NH) makes you initial a simple statement showing finance rate, total cost including financing and payment term with loan officer. If your state requires that and you did that then what can we say?

 

I have had huge success with credit unions with both rates and honesty. They really are not in the business of trying to pull money out of you like a dealership.

 

BTW another trick up dealers sleeves is to add 1-3% onto interest rate and split that add-on 50/50 with bank. I got hit with that niavely at 22 buying first new car. Thankfully my relative worked at GMAC financing who happened to be finance company for a Honda checked into my loan and I refinanced the loan immediately at the 2nd payment without issue.

[700watts]

No doubt trading in a car with only 6 weeks was asking for punishment but that was a decision I was cognizant of and so I don't mind it but the fraud part which I could have caught with some attention to detail is the part that makes me crazy mad. But I have a made a decison to post and get well deserved ridicule for being a dumb ass so that others don't make my same mistake. You see I will live through a $4K loss (over time and bitterly) and at I will learn from this mistake that hopefully this will be the worst purchasing decision of my life (plex lord I promise to pay attention). You know part of this is how great a car subie can make causing how excited I was of the purchase combined with a crazy busy work week. Damn subie for making a great car but damn that RUSSELL SUBARU located in Catonsville, MD on Rt 40 for cheating me. Lastly I'll damn myself. Appreciate all the comments - good and bad. Good night people and never sign any contract with serious $ ramifications before careful review.

 

Zach

Dumbass that RUSSELL SUBARU on Rt40 in Catonsville, MD ripped off

 

 

 

Dog,

Russell Subaru are thief’s....that’s Y I don't fu$% with them.......They tried to get me as well...I just went to Mile One or "Herb Gordon" the one off of 29S....anyway dude that sucks...they're the main reason Y, haggled the price and financed it though my credit union....then cut them a check...no fus no bus..... plus that shady ass dealership wouldn’t let me test drive the WRX the first time a came….they said some stupid sh*& like we only let serious buyers drive the cars…so I said cool…. I went to Mile One they handed me the keys and said come back in 1hr…..came back and bought the car and drove it straight to Russell to show the salesman….. they're a bunch of punks I would have said don't go there if you have posted somthing earler.....

[subiesales05gt]

at the time of purchase it is required for the finance manager to go through all the terms and numbers. the fact that you signed the contract is going to make it nearly impossible to take legal action. as for the best way to equip yourself for buying a new car, research is your best friend and when taking into consideration your trade, any blue book or black book figures can mislead. people dont take into account the vehicle clean, inspection, repairs(if any), kms (which play a huge part in how much money you get). people think dealerships dictate what you get for your trade but they dont. it is the banks and auctions. it is up to you though to make sure you get as much as you can for your trade. also remember that subarus hold their value better than almost every other car:icon_wink