Problem with my car after washing it.

[AK Wagon]

Isn't this the same issue addressed in SOA Service Bulletin #8675309? Have we determined whether the VIN ends in an even or odd number?

 

Whatever you do, do not attempt to dry the intercooler yourself; if the dealer detects tampering, it could void the warranty. Not even the Magneson-Moss Act will save you then.

 

If the dealer feigns ignorance, print out a copy of this thread from legacygt.com and show it to the Service Manager.

 

I assume this water issue is tied directly into the LGT Intercooler and not a General Intercooler issue since the STI has a scoop that could suck in a small dog and many people run FMIT (all of which get hit with water).

[speeding_gaijin]

Oh noez its teh soap it teh intercooler

[rallispec]

I assume this water issue is tied directly into the LGT Intercooler and not a General Intercooler issue since the STI has a scoop that could suck in a small dog and many people run FMIT (all of which get hit with water).

 

 

Actually, several Sti owners have had similar complaints.

[rallispec]

please read this thread for a more thorough explanation that i can go into here:

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/general-chat/5663-hood-scoop-cover-soap-2.html?

[kenzo]

I assume this water issue is tied directly into the LGT Intercooler and not a General Intercooler issue since the STI has a scoop that could suck in a small dog and many people run FMIT (all of which get hit with water).

 

Yes, but the small dogs tend to plug the scoop, protecting the intercooler from environmental exposure.

[FONTANA MOTORSPORTS]

:lol: :lol: :spin: :soap_box:

[mele63]

I assume this water issue is tied directly into the LGT Intercooler and not a General Intercooler issue since the STI has a scoop that could suck in a small dog and many people run FMIT (all of which get hit with water).

 

Yes and no. The issue becomes more complicated when we factor soap into the equasion. For one, hard water and soap do not work well with each other. The dissolved ions in the water react with the chemicals in the soap creating a sticky scum.

 

Most soap is made with compounds of sodium and potassium, such as sodium stearate. Sodium stearate reacts with the calcium compounds in the water and produces calcium stearate. The ingredient found in soaps, sodium stearate, dissolves in water; however calcium stearate, the compound formed by the combination of hard water and soap does not dissolve.

 

There is a common misconception that water does not have the necessary surface tension to maintain hydrodynamic efficacy in conjunction with a TMIC and that soap increases it, but in fact soap decreases the pull of surface tension - typically to about a third that of plain water. The surface tension in plain water is just too strong to cause issues with a conventional FMIC design configuration.

 

Soap molecules are composed of long chains of carbon and hydrogen atoms. At one end of the chain is a configuration of atoms which likes to be in water (hydrophilic). The other end shuns water (hydrophobic) but attaches easily to grease. In washing, the "greasy" end of the soap molecule attaches itself to the grease on your intercooler, letting water seep in underneath. The particle of grease is pried loose and surrounded by soap molecules, to be carried off by a flood of water.

 

It is important that you know the hardness of the water in your community. Hard water (high mineral content) is usually high in pH. Soft water (low mineral) is usually low in pH. The mineral in hard water acts as a buffer which reduces the amount of acid in the water. The resulting water will be more alkaline and higher in pH. Some intercoolers require hard water (TMIC) while others require soft (FMIC or the exotic SMIC).

 

The problem arises when we try to lower the pH in hard water. If we add a commercial pH decreaser to an IC that is corrupted with hard water, the mineral in the hard water will buffer the water and make it difficult to successfully lower the pH. We first have to remove the mineral from the water before we can effectively lower the pH. To soften hard water, you need to take the mineral out with a water softener, reverse osmosis unit or a specialized chemical that irreversibly binds up the mineral. Another option is to find a source of demineralized water for your TMIC.

[rallispec]

excellent write up. this should be a sticky.

[melayout]

+1, stick it up where the sun..........

[CMull123]

I can't even believe I just read all of this thread. It makes absolutely no sense to me. Water on your IC should make no difference unless it's COLD water on a HOT IC. If all this is true, what about the ppl who have IC sprayers, what about the ppl who are hot lappin at the track and spray there IC, tranny, engine, etc. with NO2 between laps? What about the guys who swear by power washing their engine before a show, what about the foams that are made to spray directly on your engine, and surrounding area, to clean it? I cleaned my truck before I sold it, it was EFI, had all the wiring our current cars had and no ones had a problem with it sense.

 

If you can't get your IC wet, what happens when it rains, when your drivin and you can't even see through your windshield? Does it magically stay dry? I've got a K&N intake, when I take it out to clean it, the heatshield has water spots on it, so I know there's water getting somewhere around my engine.

 

When I wash my car, I don't worry 1 ounce about gettin water on my IC because of that specific fact, it gets wet when it rains. I have to take my car to the dealer on Monday, I'll make sure to ask the service writer if he's ever heard any of this rubbish.

 

And don't say anything about "Well everyone running IC sprayers sprays with a special solution of this and that and blah, blah, blah..." I've seen plenty of guys runnin anything from tap water to NO2 through their sprayers, even saw a guy who was runnin bleach (didn't make much sense to me but he swore by it.)

[wukindada]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...

[Underdog]

I can't even believe I just read all of this thread. It makes absolutely no sense to me. Water on your IC should make no difference unless it's COLD water on a HOT IC. If all this is true, what about the ppl who have IC sprayers, what about the ppl who are hot lappin at the track and spray there IC, tranny, engine, etc. with NO2 between laps? What about the guys who swear by power washing their engine before a show, what about the foams that are made to spray directly on your engine, and surrounding area, to clean it? I cleaned my truck before I sold it, it was EFI, had all the wiring our current cars had and no ones had a problem with it sense.

 

If you can't get your IC wet, what happens when it rains, when your drivin and you can't even see through your windshield? Does it magically stay dry? I've got a K&N intake, when I take it out to clean it, the heatshield has water spots on it, so I know there's water getting somewhere around my engine.

 

When I wash my car, I don't worry 1 ounce about gettin water on my IC because of that specific fact, it gets wet when it rains. I have to take my car to the dealer on Monday, I'll make sure to ask the service writer if he's ever heard any of this rubbish.

 

And don't say anything about "Well everyone running IC sprayers sprays with a special solution of this and that and blah, blah, blah..." I've seen plenty of guys runnin anything from tap water to NO2 through their sprayers, even saw a guy who was runnin bleach (didn't make much sense to me but he swore by it.)

 

Like mele said, it's all about the soap combined with the water. I believe it's due to the electrical potential of the aluminum used in the TMIC (6061-T5 Aluminum Alloy)

 

Both of the electrodes used in the electrolysis of aluminium oxide are carbon. Once the ore is in the aqueous state, its ions are free to move around. The reaction at the negative cathode is

Al3+ + 3 e- → Al Here the aluminium ion is being reduced (electrons are added). The aluminium metal then sinks to the bottom and is tapped off.

At the positive electrode (anode) oxygen gas is formed:

2 O2- → O2 + 4 e- This carbon anode is then oxidised by the oxygen. The anodes in a reduction must therefore be replaced regularly, since they are consumed in the process:

O2 + C → CO2

[rallispec]

I have to take my car to the dealer on Monday, I'll make sure to ask the service writer if he's ever heard any of this rubbish.

 

 

I'm interested to hear what his opinion is...

[scoobydrew]

[kenzo]

If you add a bucket of ohms to the wash water, it should then be OK to use near the hood scoop and intercooler.

[dr. pepper]

^ i tried that and it made my intercooler start to foam and bubble, and when the foam subsided I was left with intercooler piping and no more intercooler, I just stopped washing and driving my car in fear of getting water on teh interc00ler

[bdisco]

I'm interested to hear what his opinion is...

 

+1

 

 

What about water freezing on your intracoolar wouldn't this be something to worry about if you live in the northern hemisphere? Would the expanding ice bend the fins or worse break a line?

[mele63]

The International Society of Automotive Engineers (ISAE) defines pH as "A measure of the acidity or alkalinity of a solution calculated as the common logarithm of the reciprocal of the hydrogen ion concentration in moles per cubic decimeter of solution and numerically equal to 7 for neutral solutions. pH increases with increasing alkalinity and decreases with increasing acidity. [potential of hydrogen.]"

 

JFI is FHI Fugi Heavy Industry passenger vehicle, made in Japan; 4S3 is a SIA Subaru-Isuzu factory passenger vehicle and S4 is a SIA Subaru-Isuzu factory MPV multi purpose vehicle such as the 2005 Outback, but not the 04 which was a 4S3 because it was still considered a car.

 

Although FGI did not officially adopt the ISEA standard until June 1, 2005, the laws of physics dictate this is the most powerful of Newton's three Laws, because it allows quantitative calculations of dynamics: how do velocities change when forces are applied. Notice the fundamental difference between Newton's 2nd Law and the dynamics of Aristotle: according to Newton, a force causes only a change in velocity (an acceleration); it does not maintain the velocity as Aristotle held

 

Acids and bases are opposites, on the opposite ends of the pH scale. The more acidic or basic a solution is, the further out on the scale it will be. Seven is the central point. The number '1' reflects the strongest acid and a '14' represents the strongest base.

 

Mix a strong acid and a strong base together and you'd get a huge explosion. In fact, mixing acids and bases were some of the first rocket fuels. For your own sake, I would at least invest in a good pair of safety goggles (ISO or JASO rating of 5W30 or equivalent), before spraying your TMIC.

[jagcars26]

+1 /\ very well said.

 

My dealer(service dept) explained it to me that way also. They also mentioned a special soap/degreaser that SOA uses through their service depts that the technicians use on the intercoolers when servicing.

I'm going to try and get some and report back.

[CreoSTi]

I'm going to try and get some and report back.

 

Let us know... I'm not washing my car until then.

 

-Mike-

[Spec B]

I only dry clean my car...

[mele63]

+1 /\ very well said.

 

My dealer(service dept) explained it to me that way also. They also mentioned a special soap/degreaser that SOA uses through their service depts that the technicians use on the intercoolers when servicing.

I'm going to try and get some and report back.

 

I've heard rumors of this chemical agent as well; however, no SOA employee or agent will confirm or deny its existence (on the record, that is).

 

My research indicates that even if it was made available to the public, each prospective purchaser would be required to file a permit application containing: chemical and physical characteristics of the waste to be treated; waste analysis procedures; waste acceptance criteria; security procedures; engineering design criteria and supporting drawings; waste handling procedures; and other information required by EPA and Ecology to verify compliance.

 

The application also will require: data from the demonstration test operations; optimized operating parameters of the ATG gasification and vitrification process including operating temperatures; waste feed rates and mass balance studies; training methodology; and location of pollution prevention equipment. The approved Part B permit would be subject to changes, updates, and regulatory agency-approved modifications (40 CFR 270.42).

[KartRacerBoy]

Waste handing procedures? You mean for all the finely crafted BS in this thread?!?

 

:lol:

[jagcars26]

I've heard rumors of this chemical agent as well; however, no SOA employee or agent will confirm or deny its existence (on the record, that is).

 

 

I didn't want to say this before because of my confidentiality clause and security issues but,,three words,,,,,,,,space shuttle & tiles.

Let's just say SOA and NASA aren't strangers,just look at the Tribeca.

[KartRacerBoy]

I didn't want to say this before because of my confidentiality clause and security issues but,,three words,,,,,,,,space shuttle & tiles.

Let's just say SOA and NASA aren't strangers,just look at the Tribeca.

 

 

Holy crap! NASA! I thought those big ass stock cans under my Subie were just mufflers. And now I find out they're discarded solid rocket boosters! Where's the ignition switch?!?