BOY Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Perfection in the eyes of C&D is a BMW and the TSX. They seem to consider the BMW the benchmark. They said the Spec.B was not competitive at $35,000. But they don't expect perfection from a WRX at $10,000 less. Great, I didn't pay $35,000. I didn't even pay $25,000. I paid $23,000. For that price I don't expect perfection. Ever notice how the iconoclastic euro sedans are always praised for their RWD on-track performance but never chastised for their useless Michigan winter driving prowess. When a brand new 5-series cannot make it up an overpass in an Indiana snowstorm I call BS on the superiority of the product. Oh, the Xi starts at $33,495... now lets comparably equip: Metallic paint: $475 Leather: $1450 Cold weather pkg: $850 6-CD Changer: $635 +install So for $36,905 you can get in the door of an AWD BMW that's comparably equipped with 215 hp. The 330 Xi goes up from there. C&D needs to get off their high horse and get their heads out of BMW's arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenspam Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Car and driver has never really fallen in love with the Legacy GT. I've been a subscriber for years to C&D and a fan of all cars even longer. I think if you're looking for really fun to drive car from subaru the WRX is the machine! I had a WRX before the legacy, and well lets just say I too suffered from WRX withdrawl. I think C&D critisims are fair (based on C&D's world view) on the legacy, I also agree that they beat the car hard, but on the downside the beat all their cars and the legacy broke. Though the issues other then the diesel fill up are not anything that other legacy owners haven't seen. Having just recently driven the honda accord (like yesterday for my GF's new car purchase) they have a helluve sports sedan on their hands if you apperciate the handling charatersics' nuances that honda has worked hard on. The accord is well balanced and its driftable like a WRX, and is frankly more fun to drive hard then a LGT. Just wish the Accord had AWD, and the LGT's turbo but that VTEC always sounds sweet. Don't get me wrong the LGT is a fun to drive car but its not a 3' series, acord, or WRX which in my opinion are more fun to drive. However, the LGT always brings a smile to my face every time I drive it. I think if your looking for a pure sports sedan fun to drive should be your primary criterion. Thats where I think the LGT needs to improve is in the handling department in the fun to drive quotent. I also think the LGT could use a beef up in its durability (I'm not convinced the 2.5GT turbo motor is as tough as the WRX's 2.0Turbo my 2.5 is driven less hard and burns oil). I do agree that there is a bias mindset towards honda, acura, BMW at C&D. But trusts me if you look for what they look for and judge the cars based on their criterion you'll agree with their conculsions. However we all selected LGT's for various reasons, and those reasons aren't the same as what C&D uses in making their judgments. I fully expect to be attacked/flamed by the fan boys. I'm just disappointed that the Legacy broke as often as it did, and I wish the SPEC B was less of a poser car and more of a M. They didn't out WRX the REX with the LGT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KartRacerBoy Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 No flaming here, Rottenspam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowFast Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 HaHa, We traded in out 2000 accord coupe for the Spec-B, no comparison the spec-b would hand the honda its @ss, on the track or on the street. Honda makes reliable cars, not FUN reliable cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowFast Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 I have to edit my last response, the s2000 is awesome, the rest, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukeTrout Posted June 27, 2006 Share Posted June 27, 2006 Car and driver has never really fallen in love with the Legacy GT. I've been a subscriber for years to C&D and a fan of all cars even longer. (snip) I fully expect to be attacked/flamed by the fan boys. I'm just disappointed that the Legacy broke as often as it did, and I wish the SPEC B was less of a poser car and more of a M. They didn't out WRX the REX with the LGT. So this is essentially a troll? And I'm still pretty puzzled by these supposed handling issues. We have the OBXT, which is supposedly even rollier than the LGT, and it still rolls way less than unmodified sedans from Detroit or Honda or Toyota. With a ground clearance that beats most SUVs. I'm not flaming here, just genuinely Ich bin echt viel netter, wenn ich nuechtern bin. Echt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandman Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 reading this article pretty much cemented in my mind a suspicion I've had that there is something personal against Subaru (sans Forester XT)in the past few years. The sentence that did it for me was... "Taking advice from Subaru-owner Web forums such as www.nasioc.com and www.legacygt.com..." You have to look at the reality of how those magazines are produced. Most of the articles are written by young, inexperienced writers. Good news for the mag: low pay scales. Bad news for the readers: lack of maturity or consistency (or perspective). I doubt most of them have ever worked a job to purchase a car - let alone afford any of the vehicles they drive. Or even afford the money to remove those blue and white propeller tatoos. The bigger concern for them is they have lost their power as the primary arbiters of automotive taste. Who wants to read about what some 24 year old Journalism major thinks about a car, when you can read about what 24 24 year olds think about owning the car, plus 20 yo's, 30 yo's, and even 53 yo's.... The fact that you can subscribe to those mags for $12 a year tells you what their business is - selling ads to manufacturers. But why in the world would Subaru give money to Car & Driver? They're better off giving it to Google - or Legacygt.com. Who Dares Wins スバル Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillboy Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 The fact that you can subscribe to those mags for $12 a year budgetmags.com FTW...$4.29 for 1 year of Car and Driver. Only place I buy subscriptions now. It is still ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_knoxville Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 hey, do you guys remember that time some automobile magazine had an article written by some car review guy about one of the subaru models? that was awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emorphien Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 The Accord V6 is not a performance sedan. It is a very nice car. I've driven both, we have an 04 Accord V6 and my 05 Legacy GT in the family. In no way is the Accord as fun to drive nor is it a performance or sporty sedan. It is quick, but it takes more than reasonable acceleration to be a performance sedan (and even then the Legacy is quite a bit faster). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 page 38... same mag... they talk about the upcoming 2007 lgt that will be released later this year... and how they had a chance to drive it in Japan. The idiots were driving a freaking 2008 refresh legacy... that is inexcusuable for a car magazine not to know what freaking car they are in. idiots. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Ever notice how the iconoclastic euro sedans are always praised for their RWD on-track performance but never chastised for their useless Michigan winter driving prowess. When a brand new 5-series cannot make it up an overpass in an Indiana snowstorm I call BS on the superiority of the product. Oh, the Xi starts at $33,495... now lets comparably equip: Metallic paint: $475 Leather: $1450 Cold weather pkg: $850 6-CD Changer: $635 +install So for $36,905 you can get in the door of an AWD BMW that's comparably equipped with 215 hp. The 330 Xi goes up from there. C&D needs to get off their high horse and get their heads out of BMW's arse. It's worse than that... this was the comparison done on NASIOC...granted these are wagons... start @ 35,295... already well over the LGT's price Ok I want silver... $475 Power seats, Leather, Lumbar support....$2,950 Heated seats......$500 17 inch wheels... $300 keyless entry...$500 carpeted floormats...$125 6cd cd changer... in the trunk... $635 I'm at $41,555 and that's without an auto transmission($1,275) which would put it very close to $45K and I'd be willing to bet incentives would play much better into the LGT's favor. so for all that money... i get... less power inferior awd No Limited slip rear diff marginally better highway fuel economy, same city fuel economy no active head restraints no windshield wiper de icer reflector beam headlights inferior safety ratings worse reliability and a worse warranty... hmmm.... The LGT truly is the steal of the century for a well made sports sedan/wagon. too bad nobody knows and even the subaru people take it for granted. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandman Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 HaHa, We traded in out 2000 accord coupe for the Spec-B, no comparison the spec-b would hand the honda its @ss, on the track or on the street. Honda makes reliable cars, not FUN reliable cars. I don't agree. We have an 05 Accord V6. It has acceleration, cornering limits, and braking that equal or better many so-called sports sedans. Like the LGT, the OEM tires are wanting. The LGT is a lot faster, but the Honda burns regular and we average in the mid to high 20's in mpg, one tank of 31.3. You go 0-60 once per trip. Who Dares Wins スバル Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 I don't agree. We have an 05 Accord V6. It has acceleration, cornering limits, and braking that equal or better many so-called sports sedans. Like the LGT, the OEM tires are wanting. The LGT is a lot faster, but the Honda burns regular and we average in the mid to high 20's in mpg, one tank of 31.3. You go 0-60 once per trip. as you have described... it's a cruiser with some power... not a sports sedan [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix96 Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 You go 0-60 once per trip. I don't know what sort of trips you go on.... phoenix96 2006 Legacy GT Ltd · 2011 Outback 3.6R Ltd · 1992 SVX 2006 Outback 3.0R VDC · 2009 Forester 2.5X 2002 Outback VDC · 1996 Outback 2.5L · 1986 GL-10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rporter Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Geez, folks!!!! Anyway, the Honda is no more or less a "performance sedan" than the LGT. That is not a discussion that will ever be resolved. I just read the article a bit ago. Pretty fair, IMHO. They uncovered some of the typical problems, like rear wheel bearings and dying headlights, which I and others here have experienced. The comment about the "light interior' read as a general comment about light interiors on any car not, just the LGT. Too much thin skin here. Yes, I love my car, but it ain't perfect. And, in my mind, BMW and Honda are two carmakers that everyone else would do well to emulate. And so what if BMWs cost more? The should....they offer more. Subaru sales would tank if they cost what a BMW cost. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Geez, folks!!!! Anyway, the Honda is no more or less a "performance sedan" than the LGT. That is not a discussion that will ever be resolved. I just read the article a bit ago. Pretty fair, IMHO. They uncovered some of the typical problems, like rear wheel bearings and dying headlights, which I and others here have experienced. The comment about the "light interior' read as a general comment about light interiors on any car not, just the LGT. Too much thin skin here. Yes, I love my car, but it ain't perfect. And, in my mind, BMW and Honda are two carmakers that everyone else would do well to emulate. And so what if BMWs cost more? The should....they offer more. Subaru sales would tank if they cost what a BMW cost. C&D is a basher...I've been reading C&D as well as a ton of other car mags for years. It's obvious when there is bias. Money talks I guess. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rottenspam Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Just to add something to the mix here, the WRX in I think it was the October 2001 issue of C&D was put up against a BMW 3 series, and Audi S4. C&D chose the WRX over the BMW, so we can't say that C&D always chooses BMW over Subaru. BTW if I had has much trouble with my Legacy as C&D did I'd probably want to get rid of it too and trade it in for a BMW. The 02 WRX I owned before was bullet proof, my Legacy has been somewhat less reliable (never had a problem with my REX). I've had problems with dash rattles, cooling fan stuck on, windows sealing properly, and oil burning. But none of these were huge issues in my mind however, they should have been worked out better on subaru's part particulairly the cooling fan issue. The Honda Accord with a V6 and 6spd makes for a fine sports sedan with similar performance to the LGT. The Accord is refined, durable, with trusty handling, and dare I say almost as predictable as a WRX. I also think the Honda is boring looking, has more power then I like in a front driver and its breaks are weak. I own a 05 LGT with 5spd and for shear acceleration thrills the Legacy is hard to beat. I have never felt (just my opinion) that the Legacy was as fun to drive as my WRX, the legacy is a different kind of machine. I find in my test drives of the Accord that it gives me the same kind of handling satisfaction as my WRX did. I found myself immediately able to balance right at the limits of adhesion, and 4 wheel drift the Accord around corners. I attribute this to decent steering feedback, good chassis tuning, and a stiff body. The LGT isn’t as easy to drive at its limits as the Accord, and the LGT has a nasty habit of snapping its rear end out which can catch one off guard if they don’t expect it. Where as the WRX and Accord are better balanced and easier to drift all 4 wheels with proper throttle application and drive at their limits then the LGT. The WRX and Accord can make average drivers seem like heroes. I just see areas for improvement in the Legacy and as a sports luxury sedan the LGT is a heck of a machine. Its fun to drive, but it’s not perfect (nothing ever is). The LGT Could use a smoother shifting manual possibly a 6spd, more power, stiffer suspension, better breaks, and a better stereo, and a little better fuel economy would be nice (I average about 19mpg). But I like my LGT and will consider another Subaru after this lease is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanoswrx Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 My friend has a V6 Accord and my dad has a normal I4 Accord, and my Brother and Sister have a RSX-S, so I am pretty framilar with Honda's. I have also owned a WRX. I really don't see how anyone can think the Accord is as fun to drive as a LGT, it's a solid car yes, but I find the LGT much more fun to drive then any of the Honda's I have driven. These our all our own opinions, someone might say a Honda Elantra is a fun performance sedan. All I know is I can't ever recall seeing a new accord out at an Auto-X. I have seen a few Legacy GT's though and have raced mine quite a few times. It's not perfect, nor as solid as a WRX, I miss my WRX in that regard. But I would say it's just as fast as one around the course, so it's doing something right. Maybe its just the driver Heck I even beat STI's. I don't see accords doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rporter Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 C&D is a basher...I've been reading C&D as well as a ton of other car mags for years. It's obvious when there is bias. Money talks I guess. If you want a butt-smooching magazine, then buy Motor Trend. I dropped them over 20 years ago and never regretted it when I see an occasional issue today.. C&D gives honest, straightforward responses......good or bad. Unfortunately, they got a "typical" LGT for a long-term test, and not a "bettter" one. Be glad they didnt memtion the clutch stink.....which shows me they can use a clutch properly. I find that getting an honest evaluation from someone who is not necessarily a rabid Subaru fan is more meaningful. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 If you want a butt-smooching magazine, then buy Motor Trend. I dropped them over 20 years ago and never regretted it when I see an occasional issue today.. C&D gives honest, straightforward responses......good or bad. Unfortunately, they got a "typical" LGT for a long-term test, and not a "bettter" one. Be glad they didnt memtion the clutch stink.....which shows me they can use a clutch properly. I find that getting an honest evaluation from someone who is not necessarily a rabid Subaru fan is more meaningful. we will have to agree to disagree... i don't find the LGT reviewed "typical" nor do i find them ubiased. Their 330i had more problems in a much shorter period of time and they still splooged on it. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillboy Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Be glad they didnt memtion the clutch stink.....which shows me they can use a clutch properly. You call going through a clutch in 32,000 miles "properly"? It is still ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rporter Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 You call going through a clutch in 32,000 miles "properly"? Search around this forum. A bunch of folks have already done clutch replacements, and I also got into MDTurbos clutch/flywheel group buy to have it handy when mine goes (I have 34K). IMHO, the clutch works fine for "normal" (whatever that means) driving. If you buy an LGT, you better be driving it like you stole it!! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rporter Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 You call going through a clutch in 32,000 miles "properly"? Do a Search in this Forum. A number of folks have already done clutch replacements. I am in on MDTurbo's Group Buy for a new clutch/flywheel, to have handy when I need it (I have 34K). I have two more drag events and two track events coming up this year. Sorry on the double post. I got a "server busy" on the first, and it didn't seem to go through. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garandman Posted June 28, 2006 Share Posted June 28, 2006 Subaru has a "secret warranty" on Impreza clutches as well.A friend of mine is on his 3rd one at 55,000 miles - and it's a 2.5 RS, not a WRX. But he says the third one seems to be improved and does not have the shudder he was experiencing previously. Who Dares Wins スバル Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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