why does the sedan feel faster than the wagon?

[lemming]

has anyone else noticed this? 'own both (GT trim) and i swear that the sedan feels quicker than the wagon. is there something obvious that i don't recall at the moment like different gearing or final drive ratios? it could ECU tuning, but i don't think it's because the wagon is slightly heavier.

[05LegacyGT330Ci]

I think its just in your head. Becuase I remember during the test drive the sedan felt faster but it was alwyas the first time I drove the GT and I think the wagon you just dont expect to be so fast.

[SUBE555]

I'd say it's the latter, what 05LegacyGT330Ci said, particularly if you drove the sedan first.

[rao]

Because it is :lol:

[Mines]

im thinking prob becuase the sedan weighs less. (ie the big hatch on the wagon)

[axis008]

Are they both manual transmission? Maybe the torque transfer differences between manual and automatic affects the way you perceive things? I have no clue.

[SBT]

Part of the time distance continuum. It's because the rear of the wagon is farther away visually. The sedan rear is much closer and so it seems to be moving ahead faster... :) Actually, I have no idea... but it sounded logical. :? SBT

[05LegacyGT330Ci]

[quote name='Mines']im thinking prob becuase the sedan weighs less. (ie the big hatch on the wagon)[/quote] The base GT wagon weighs less then the GT Limited Sedan that has been tested by C & D and Road and Track. Sure its only a few pounds but still lightere so the weight in negligable between the two models its all just sensory feeling the cars are just as fast.

[Driver72]

Don't put much faith into the weights listed by the car mags. They rarely if ever match what the manufacturer says. A GT Limited Wagon weighs 70 pounds more than a GT Limited Sedan. On top of that it's less aerodynamic 0.31 Cd to 0.29 Cd. Of course, 70 pounds and 0.2 Cd isn't a lot, but it adds up without a doubt makes the wagon slower. Part of it is also probably how the cars are running. The sedan you own may just be running a tad better as well. Add it all up and you have a slower feeling wagon. Even Subaru lists the 0-60 time of the wagon one tenth slower than the sedan. The weight and extra aerodynamic drag is obviously to blame there.

[Beanboy]

Drag isn't an issue in a 0-60 mph race. And where does Subaru list the sedan faster than the wagon? I've only seen the GT listed as 0-60 in 5.8, and the Outback XT in 5.9, both wagons. Performance between the sedan and wagon are only going to be measured theoretically, and even then it will be in the hundredths of a second range. Only real big difference is top speed, probably a couple of mph less for the wagon. Anybody else says otherwise, it is other factors. Weather, driver ability, tires, variation in car power, etc... -B

[Driver72]

Drag will start to creep in by 60 mph. Drive 60 mph and stick your hand out the window. There's a pretty significant force at that speed. Do it at 40 mph and it still is significant. At highway speeds it can make a big difference. I'd venture to say that a equally equipped sedan could pull more than a car length away from the wagon in a 60-120 mph run. I think I saw if in an ad, where it listed the 5.9 seconds. Maybe it was the Outback XT, but I thought it was the Legacy GT wagon. Either way, 70 pounds and more drag is going to slow a car down somewhat. Though not completely accurate, there's a basic ideology that for every 100 pounds in weight you lose a tenth in the 0-60, more in the 1/4. The 70 pounds and the extra drag of the wagon probably equals that tenth. And it very well could be closer to .2 in a 1/4 mile. I'm sure wagon owners will argue, but facts are facts. If every bit of weight didn't matter, people wouldn't remove stuff out of their car at drag races. You wouldn't show up to a drag race with a 70 pound bad of sand in your car and a piece of plastic attached to the roof to lower you drag would you? And then at the end say, "well the 70 pounds of sand and the less drag didn't hurt me any."

[Ken S]

It's probably more due to a vehicle-to-vehicle variance than a sedan vs. wagon variance. I'm sure if you had a bunch of sedans, some will feel faster then others. The other factor can be just a mental bias that the wagon will be slower. That could be ruled out with a double-blind test. :) Ken

[gargleblaster]

Is it possible that the Sedan is broken in more than the Wagon? I know my WRX didn't feel completely loosened up until about 8k miles...

[lemming]

both have the same mileage, give or take a little. i doubt either are broken in yet. but it's definitely noticeable. i'll bet the motor in the sedan is still within build tolerances, but stronger.

[05LegacyGT330Ci]

[quote name='Driver72']Don't put much faith into the weights listed by the car mags. They rarely if ever match what the manufacturer says. A GT Limited Wagon weighs 70 pounds more than a GT Limited Sedan. On top of that it's less aerodynamic 0.31 Cd to 0.29 Cd. Of course, 70 pounds and 0.2 Cd isn't a lot, but it adds up without a doubt makes the wagon slower. Part of it is also probably how the cars are running. The sedan you own may just be running a tad better as well. Add it all up and you have a slower feeling wagon. Even Subaru lists the 0-60 time of the wagon one tenth slower than the sedan. The weight and extra aerodynamic drag is obviously to blame there.[/quote] Well I gave non Limited Wagon weight for Limited Sedan and they were numbers from the manufactorer not magazines. If you consider a tenth of a second to mean anything then go ahead and think that. Also thats what Subaru says, you think they are gonna say a wagon is as fast as their new sports car, no they arent.

[GT Ski]

The wagon is fast enough, trust me. The great thing about the GT Wagon is the fact that it is a wagon and therefore gets no respect. It is great to catch unsuspecting motorists with their pants down trying to cut me off at 2-1 merges. Today a taxi tried to gun it off the line at a red light, trying to cut me off where the road merges to one lane after the light. Needless to say I was not as slow as he thought I was.

[lemming]

[quote name='GT Ski']The wagon is fast enough, trust me. The great thing about the GT Wagon is the fact that it is a wagon and therefore gets no respect. It is great to catch unsuspecting motorists with their pants down trying to cut me off at 2-1 merges. Today a taxi tried to gun it off the line at a red light, trying to cut me off where the road merges to one lane after the light. Needless to say I was not as slow as he thought I was.[/quote] i DRIVE the GT wagon everyday as it is MY car. so i know what you're talking about. i perceive actually the opposite problem, that snotty ass german cars around boston won't get out of the way when i'm trying to commute myself home. it's just that every so often i have to take the GT sedan into work and it's a noticeable enough difference in zippiness to make me wonder.

[GT Ski]

Well, the GT Wagon has the same power output as the '02 S4 Avant which I think is actually just as fast as the V8 Version. Needless to say, it is one of the fastest wagons available in the US, which is fine by me. If my needs allowed a Sedan then the choices become more plentiful. I just picked it up last night and I can't believe how fun it is to drive, even while keeping it below 4k. Several times today people have tried to cut in front of me at a merge and every time a little blip of the throttle was enough to keep me well in front of them. The sedan may well be faster, but I'm having too much fun to worry about it. :D

[jaycee]

Even if the wagon is slower than the sedan I'm OK with that. If we raced on a trip to go skiing the wagon would win hands down because the guy in the sedan would have to make two trips to carry all his stuff :) .

[Driver72]

[quote name='05LegacyGT330Ci'][quote name='Driver72']Don't put much faith into the weights listed by the car mags. They rarely if ever match what the manufacturer says. A GT Limited Wagon weighs 70 pounds more than a GT Limited Sedan. On top of that it's less aerodynamic 0.31 Cd to 0.29 Cd. Of course, 70 pounds and 0.2 Cd isn't a lot, but it adds up without a doubt makes the wagon slower. Part of it is also probably how the cars are running. The sedan you own may just be running a tad better as well. Add it all up and you have a slower feeling wagon. Even Subaru lists the 0-60 time of the wagon one tenth slower than the sedan. The weight and extra aerodynamic drag is obviously to blame there.[/quote] Well I gave non Limited Wagon weight for Limited Sedan and they were numbers from the manufactorer not magazines. If you consider a tenth of a second to mean anything then go ahead and think that. Also thats what Subaru says, you think they are gonna say a wagon is as fast as their new sports car, no they arent.[/quote] Easy there tiger, let your turbos cool! I knew there'd be some wagon denial going on. True the wagon is fast too. But if you don't think 70 pounds and 0.2 Cd will have any effect on acceleration...you are only fooling yourself. I got the weights from the Subaru brouchere. "do I think Subaru will say the wagon is as fast as their sedan?" No, because they know it's NOT. It may be minimal, but again, how could anybody think that in two identical cars, that if one weighs 70 pounds more and is not as aerodynamic it will BE EQUALLY as fast. Why do you think the SCCA uses weight penalities. If even 25 pounds didn't make a difference, the SCCA wouldn't make cars sometimes carry as little as 10 extra pounds. Any weight slows you down when it comes to acceleration. You can deny it or choose to ignore it all you want. Just based on the little thing called physics, the wagon will inherently be a touch slower.

[GT Ski]

[quote name='jaycee']Even if the wagon is slower than the sedan I'm OK with that. If we raced on a trip to go skiing the wagon would win hands down because the guy in the sedan would have to make two trips to carry all his stuff :) .[/quote] Amen to that :D Skiing and Camping needs really demanded that I get a wagon. I'm just thankful that I have a wagon that can kick a little ass when needed. 8)

[05LegacyGT330Ci]

[quote name='Driver72'][quote name='05LegacyGT330Ci'][quote name='Driver72']Don't put much faith into the weights listed by the car mags. They rarely if ever match what the manufacturer says. A GT Limited Wagon weighs 70 pounds more than a GT Limited Sedan. On top of that it's less aerodynamic 0.31 Cd to 0.29 Cd. Of course, 70 pounds and 0.2 Cd isn't a lot, but it adds up without a doubt makes the wagon slower. Part of it is also probably how the cars are running. The sedan you own may just be running a tad better as well. Add it all up and you have a slower feeling wagon. Even Subaru lists the 0-60 time of the wagon one tenth slower than the sedan. The weight and extra aerodynamic drag is obviously to blame there.[/quote] Well I gave non Limited Wagon weight for Limited Sedan and they were numbers from the manufactorer not magazines. If you consider a tenth of a second to mean anything then go ahead and think that. Also thats what Subaru says, you think they are gonna say a wagon is as fast as their new sports car, no they arent.[/quote] Easy there tiger, let your turbos cool! I knew there'd be some wagon denial going on. True the wagon is fast too. But if you don't think 70 pounds and 0.2 Cd will have any effect on acceleration...you are only fooling yourself. I got the weights from the Subaru brouchere. "do I think Subaru will say the wagon is as fast as their sedan?" No, because they know it's NOT. It may be minimal, but again, how could anybody think that in two identical cars, that if one weighs 70 pounds more and is not as aerodynamic it will BE EQUALLY as fast. Why do you think the SCCA uses weight penalities. If even 25 pounds didn't make a difference, the SCCA wouldn't make cars sometimes carry as little as 10 extra pounds. Any weight slows you down when it comes to acceleration. You can deny it or choose to ignore it all you want. Just based on the little thing called physics, the wagon will inherently be a touch slower.[/quote] Thank you for proving me right then hah. I gave weights that show the base GT wagon as 10 pounds lighter then the GT Limited Sedan that has been tested by the magazines so far..

[lemming]

i've not been meaning to demean the GT wagon in any way, shape or form, it's my car of choice and obviously, if i own both the sedan and the wagon, it's more than just test driving for 15 minutes at a time seat of the pants feeling. i just didn't know if Subie tuned them from the factory differently. there seems to be some difference in suspension tuning (logically), so i didn't know if there was for the engines, too. in the past year and a half, i've gone through a WRX wagon, an STi, a forester XT and now these two. i've enjoyed driving the GTs the most and it's because they are better for 90% of the driving that i do.

[SUBE555]

Driver72, you must have or want a sedan. :lol: Because you're just trying to say how much worse the wagons are. I'd probably have an STi, except, they don't make one. Not a Wagon version anyhow. My buddy has to trailer his if he wants to bring extra wheels and tires. Will I have to do that if I want to do track days with my GT Wagon? Hell no! That's what that extra room in the boot is for. :P And the GT Limited sedan that people so love does weigh more than my wagon too. W00T! STi Springs to lower it a hair will shave that CD to a neglegible position and a Cobb Accessport Stage 1 will more than offset the weight from a base sedan to a base wagon. Base GT Wagon to GT Limited Sedan, it's even. Throw the auto in the sedan and it's history. :lol: You know wagons are better Driver72. You just can't admit it. :mrgreen: BTW, here are those GT weights (manual/auto): • Sedan: 3300/3365 • Wagon: 3355/3420 • Sedan Ltd: 3365/3435 • Wagon Ltd: 3435/3500

[Max Capacity]

As stated, every 100lbs is worth a .10 of a second in the 1/4 mile. That rule as been around for Drag Racers for ever. The Wagon is heavier that's why it is slower. I doubt most people can or will feel the .10 difference. Back to the theory, Some cars seem to be faster then others. I think it depends on how you break them in. But it is more likely due to internal tolerances. One engine may hold cylinder pressure a bit better then another. But here again I doubt most people can feel that. So it comes down to it's all in your head. If you think the sedan is faster buy it. I like fast cars, but I want the space of the Wagon more. In my mind, the difference is not a big issue. I can tell you when you keep your foot in it when you shift from 4th to 5th with the 5 speed you'll be impressed that the car keeps on pulling. I did this last night. Pretty cool, my last two GT's would feel like it wasn't worth the effort. The turbo is fantastic.