I'm new to this, any pointers? 08 LGT Engine

[08LGTDGM]

Hello all, I'm new to this forum/online community thing so sorry if I'm too noobish lol. If the info is already available somewhere on here I apologize, I'm not sure how to find it. I have recently acquired an 08 LGT with 104k on the clock and a knock, it's absolutely pristine otherwise. I was informed about the knock by the seller beforehand but I was hoping it was the timing belt tensioner based on his description of how it happened/ sounded and the fact that it was never done, now having the exact milage Subaru recommends changing it. Unfortunately I got it home, pulled the dipstick and low and behold there was some glitter in the oil. The car still runs but I fear not for much longer. Its more of a TackkTackkTackk than a KnockKnock but I'm leaning towards a rod bearing given the glittery condition of the oil? My question is where do I go from here? Should I replace with a used engine? Or have the current one rebuilt? I'm guessing ebay is the best place to buy a replacement. Any recommendations on sellers? And does it have to be from an 08/09MY LEGACY? Or will an outback engine bolt up and work? I'm in massachusetts and haven't had any luck sourcing a local one. I'm not looking to make it a race car or put out 400HP I'd just like to make a nice reliable daily driver and save what is otherwise a gorgeous car from being scrapped. But without breaking my bank account in the process if possible, now I got the car via trade so I don't really have anything into it but the cost of the tow, so there's that. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by 08LGTDGM

[MoleMan]

This is what I would do.

Change the oil yourself and put in a new filter. Fill to spec.  Run it for 100 miles and then check to see if the oil still is glimmering.   You could also change the PCV as a precaution. 

A bad belt tensioner will cause a knock bit won't cause metal shavings in the oil.

If after the 100 miles you are burning oil then yeah I would say you have a bad rod bearing. 

To your question. Yeah if it's a bad rod bearing you can drive it as long as you watch the oil consumption and fill it when needed. The issue is your cats will eventually get clogged.

Now here's the major issue. Massachusetts has pretty stringingent emissions and safety inspection. If the car throws a code then you can't get it registered.

Most shops will not rebuild the engine. It's cheaper to throw a used one in.  If I am not mistaken you can get one from a Leggy or an Outback.

I would maybe spend the hundred or so bucks to have a shop that specializes in Subarus inspect the car. Don't tell them anything and see what they come up with.

You are probably going to be in it 5k.

Always with a car like this have it checked out beforehand.

 

Looking forward to the outcome 

 

[Haze]

LGT and OBXT long blocks are identical from 07-09. IIRC, 08-14 WRX long blocks are also basically the same.

That said, a used motor is always a bit of a gamble. If you want to keep the car, a new OEM short block is probably the way to go. Alternatively, you can get a new crank, rod,  gasket set and bearings, bust out the tools and have it back together for under $1k. I'm currently doing it this way on my LGT after doing the same with my OBXT a few years ago. That was the first time I had ever put an engine together from scratch and it's still going strong 27000 miles later. It's not as difficult as some people make it sound.

[Max Capacity]

Which town in MA do you live in ?

I have a trusted mechanic in Somersville CT, a few miles from the state line below Springfield, MA.

You can read my, "click here" link below, to see how to replace the short block ($2200 with engine gasket set for your year car) with a new one from Subaru. The machine shop is in Somersville CT.

Depending on how much metal is in your oil, you'll want to replace the oil cooler and other parts in the oil system.

Blackstone Labs can perform a oil sample if you want to go that way.

Metal in the oil is a bad thing in these engines.

 

[08LGTDGM]

Hey guys thanks for the replies!

I didn't think I'd be able to drive the car at all given the noise, I don't want to grenade it. I didn't see any full on "shavings" just a very slight glitter or sheen to the oil and oddly only visible on one side of the dipstick. It's been pretty cloudy and crappy out the past few days but when I get some sunshine I'll try and capture it in a photo. I traded a 99/00 polaris sportsman 500 for it straight up, which also needed a bit of cosmetic work but I had just rebuilt the top end so it was fresh engine wise, ran good. He also threw in a Cobb APV3 and another set of stock wheels for my dealing with the transport side if the deal. I didn't even bother listening to the engine other than to load it on the trailer, I was more or less considering it a trade for a clean roller and I'd figure out the engine later, it's later lol. I am mechanically inclined and work at a machine shop part time so I am familiar with precision as well. I just don't have the tools or place to pull the engine so I'll have to pay someone to do the work. I could probably get access to an engine hoist but it would be outside in the driveway which isn't ideal but I could pull off a swap if I can find an engine that will just plug and play. A shop here in Pittsfield quoted me 4900 out the door to completely rebuild the engine with some reliability upgrades. That's a lot of money for me tho so I'm looking into other that in the short term will get me on the road for the time being. I was thinking if I could find one to swap in I could take my time and have the original engine rebuilt. I still plan to take the timing cover off and inspect the tensioner, I got the drivers side cover off and the belt has cracks and dry rot so it's definitely never been replaced, would it jumping time cause the knock and glittery oil?

[08LGTDGM]

Also i hooked up the AP, no CEL and there are no codes being thrown

[Max Capacity]

Here's the service manual, Index of /ilh/vacation

The tensioner may be a issue, some have had them go bad and make noise.

Only use the Aisin timing belt kit, not a Gates, which is junk now days.

car-part.com is the junkyard site to find a used engine...but most are so costly, it's better to buy a new ej257 shortblock. But in your case, you can do the labor and machining. 

www.car-part.com

$3000 for a used engine, is not much of a bargain. 

 

 

 

[08LGTDGM]

I have the opportunity to swap a running 2.5 out of an 06 LGT with 130k and no knock for a 00 Skidoo snowmobile i have. Problem is I'm not sure if it will bolt in and work or not. Some things I've read say it won't be a bolt in swap and other things I've read say they're exactly the same? 

[subisubisu]

You might take a look at those service manuals Max linked.  There's a 2005 and a 2008 at least.  I think there is a difference in the heads between those dates, but I am not sure exactly where it comes in.  The earlier heads are marked B25 and the later ones are D25, and there are different emissions systems in them.  So, if you try connecting an earlier engine to a later ECU, you won't have all the connections.  There are other differences in the harness, too - there is a thread about how the TGV motor and sensor connections changed over the run of the 4th gen from earlier this year, I believe.  So, I think it matters that you match the engine to the ECU.

[08LGTDGM]

Nice! Service manuals! Thank you MaxCapacity!

[08LGTDGM]

Gonna give them a look now!

[Max Capacity]

The ej255 and ej257 out of the STI are the same engine. Any difference doesn't effect anything.

 

The 06 shortblock will bolt into your car, You bolt your bolt on items to the new shortblock. That's why you need to get the engine gasket set for your year car.

Notice in my pictures, I removed the intake system in one piece and bolted it to the ej257.

 

You also need to make sure your turbo has about zero play in the shaft, in/out, up/down, side to side. 

Also get a new oil return hose from the turbo.

[BoozeRS05]

Hold on a sec. The D25 heads from an 08 LGT bolted up to the EJ257 will lower the compression ratio bc of the piston dish change if I’m not mistaken. Doesn’t that change the tuning requirements?

[seanyb505]

I thought it went the other way - d25 have smaller combustion chambers, so the compression ratio goes up .

 

Either way, yes that's a decent change the tune needs to think about. Nothing that can't be tuned around. 

Edited November 20, 2023 by seanyb505

[Max Capacity]

When my Tuner did a street tune after I put the ej257 in my 05, he said even with the CR change, it wasn't enough to worry about or make adjustments because of it.

You can see the B25 on the left hand head on my 2005.

 

[08LGTDGM]

Just found out that the engine I'm trading my sled for comes with an entire 06 LGT attached to it! It doesn't move tho according to the owner, not sure why. But now I'm wondering if it wouldn't be less work/money to fix the 06's transmission issues instead of the 08's RK? It's also a GRP car which if I'm not mistaken is more rare than the DGM no? I'm all about uniquity so if it's the less common color I'd probably like to fix it rather than use it as a parts car

Edited November 20, 2023 by 08LGTDGM

[08LGTDGM]

I also have an 05 OB 3.0R sedan that's got a frozen driveline but good engine and possibly good trans. Not sure of it's locked up because of the brakes being rusted or from the transmission lines rotting out and dumping the atf all over my driveway 

[08LGTDGM]

I was also under the impression that the older heads wouldn't work on the newer blocks due to the compression change but that's really not an issue I just had all kinds of options open up!

[Max Capacity]

Yes, the CR is not an issue. The change in the top of the piston shape is so small...

Are we talking about LGT's with 5mt's or 5eat's ?

 

 

[08LGTDGM]

5EAT's

[KZJonny]

That's quite the collection you've got going on!

I would worry more about which one has the least rust. It's the one that will cause the least headaches in the long run.

If the motor from the '06 has no knock and clean oil, use it, and the best set of heads from the bunch. I would probably stick with the D25s out of your '08 but have them hot tanked to be sure there is no contamination in them. Lowest possible cost, and it gives you the time to rebuild the other engine or trans or whichever thing you want over the winter, or in the Spring when it's more pleasant to work in the driveway. I suspect this will be less work than sorting out the electrical differences and deleting the secondary air pump etc.... all of which is *trickier* to do now that you can't tune around them with a COBB AP.

Edited November 20, 2023 by KZJonny

[08LGTDGM]

KZJonny thanks man! I've been a fan of the gen4 legacy since I worked at Pete's Subaru back in the early 00s, naturally being a salesmen I had to drive all the vehicles, ya know so I could sell them better I remember driving the 05 STI and getting stuck somewhere because I couldn't figure out how to put the damn thing in reverse lol took me a solid 30 minutes before I realized there was a knob that had to be lifted before it would go into R. But after that I drove a 5spd Diamond Grey Mettalic LGT and absolutely loved it, I remember thinking this is just as much fun as the STI but more comfortable and wayyyy more classy, or maybe manly idk lol I just know I liked the legacy better by far and have wanted one since. Then a found out about the outback sedan and fell in love with those, finally found one down in CT about 7 years ago and snagged it. Drove it up until about 2 years ago when it just needed too much work (or so I thought) so I stupidly used the money I could have used to fix it up to buy a.....drumroll please....04 Dodge Durango not my finest hour. But now apparently I'm getting back into Subaru as these 2 LGT'S have found their way to me. I'd like to get them both back in the road but for the time being I just need a vehicle so whatever gets me back into some wheels quickest and without costing my left arm is what I'm gonna do

[08LGTDGM]

Welp I got got. The red Subaru arrived and as I got looking it over and getting ready to start pulling parts off I realized something didn't look right,  kept digging and found out that someone had apparently swapped in an older EJ22 engine! So I contacted the seller and of course he "had no idea" it had been swapped isnt willing to make it right. So I essentially paid 1600 bucks for a rusty shell, man I'm pissed. I checked out the motor before we unloaded the car but I was looking for damage and shavings in the oil and listening for signs of RK, I NEVER ever thought to check and make sure there was actually a 2.5l in the car, I mean who the heck swaps a 90s 2.2 into 06 car, I didn't even know that was a thing! So I guess if anyone in the western mass area is interested in a decent EJ22 hit me up

[GearJamr]

Part out what you can, you'll make your money back.  Sucks there are still a lot of sheisters out there.

[KZJonny]

Damn.

Not my area of expertise in any way, since I am also a 4th gen owner/diehard as well, but I am pretty sure if that 2.2L is clean and one of the semi-closed deck models, they are still sought after by people. It's probably worth something. Not 1600 probably, but on the plus side if that car has the OE catalytics, they are likely worth $500 or so these days. I sold my stock DP when going to a high-flow for something like $700 CAD just last Spring. Payed for the Grimmspeed DP more or less.