rporter Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 This is relatively true.... and we've always told PRETTY much the same to our customers (and we sell the stuff). However, if youre tracking your car, you can definitely use it. Especially if youre using rcomps or track pads, you'll heat up the system pretty darn fast. And depending on conditions (humidity, etc), that fluid can boil fast. Just as an aside, I put Carbotech Panther+ pads on as well as a flush, before our Gingerman event a few weeks ago (usual DE-type). Besides loving the pads for street & track (yeah, dusty & noisy...who cares!!), pads & fluid did fine at Gingerman, and the Valvoline looked good when I flushed it again the next week to see how it did (the Motive bleeder makes it easy). Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 For the extra $20-$30 I will gladly get better fluid. You just have to get your brake fluid too hot once, and then you gotta flush. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rporter Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 For the extra $20-$30 I will gladly get better fluid. You just have to get your brake fluid too hot once, and then you gotta flush. The primary black/white question that is asked in other car forums/lists I'm on is: Do you do track work? if you don't, you are never gonna drive hard enough on the street to get remotely close to cooking the fluid. Might as well take that extra $20-30 and throw it into a bonfire. For a serious track car, even in DEs, the extra bit of dry boiling point could matter. For average cars with maybe a bit extra HP and even track tires, it will not matter. If you are cooking fluid with this type of setup, you have other issues, and the boiling fluid is a symptom, not a cause. I have seen this with typical track cars at our DEs. Some cars with imbalanced setups can boil ANY fluid. As can poor driving technique. FWIW, I can flush the brakes in the time it takes to do an oil change. I am a firm believer that the Motive Products pressure bleeder is one of the best tools ever invented!! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KartRacerBoy Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Should you bleed the brakes after a track day, or FLUSH the hydraulic fluid after a track day. I imagine the latter is preferable but is it necessary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Th3Franz Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 I usually only bleed the brakes after track days and do a flush half-way through the season. -Franz The end of a Legacy http://www.youtube.com/th3franz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rporter Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Should you bleed the brakes after a track day, or FLUSH the hydraulic fluid after a track day. I imagine the latter is preferable but is it necessary? I get sloppy with my use of "bleed" and "flush". I end up using the terms interchangeably. I never just bleed the brakes, I flush the system every time I do it, When I say 'bleed", I meant 'flush". The work is in the setup, anyway, and to just bleed the brakes saves no time when I can flush the system as easily. I usually plan on a flush after a track day. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 There is another segment of owners who "tow" with their cars and for those who do, especially if your towing involves a ton of hills/mountains and or stop and go at the limits, i.e., 1000 lb trailer on behind (max weight without supplemental trailer brakes), you'll want to increase your brake fluid's upper boil points/resistance to water. Even if you tow up to the 2700 lb limit and your towed rig has supplemental brakes, you still should upgrade your brake fluid. And check your pads too, because trailer towing adds additional stress on the pads and I've even seen them crack/fracture from the extra heat generated by mountain towing. Just an extra thought to consider. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleBlueGT Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 The primary black/white question that is asked in other car forums/lists I'm on is: Do you do track work? if you don't, you are never gonna drive hard enough on the street to get remotely close to cooking the fluid. Might as well take that extra $20-30 and throw it into a bonfire. For a serious track car, even in DEs, the extra bit of dry boiling point could matter. For average cars with maybe a bit extra HP and even track tires, it will not matter. If you are cooking fluid with this type of setup, you have other issues, and the boiling fluid is a symptom, not a cause. I have seen this with typical track cars at our DEs. Some cars with imbalanced setups can boil ANY fluid. As can poor driving technique. FWIW, I can flush the brakes in the time it takes to do an oil change. I am a firm believer that the Motive Products pressure bleeder is one of the best tools ever invented!! Over time your boiling point will drop due to it absorbing water. The extra $20-$30 will give you an added safety margin. I change my fluid once a year and I have had problems a few times with the above mentioned synthetic and once with a high performance brake fluid. No I have never tracked or auto-crossed my car. Full tune of 68HTA, KSTech 73 MAF, Racer X FMIC and ID1000s................by the DataLog Mafia!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kilowatt Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Ron, I bought the Motive Brake Bleeder system so that I'm not having to look for my wife or daughters to provide the, excuse the expression, "motive force" on the brake pedals. SBT I recently did lines, pads, etc. With no wife or daughter/son around at the moment, I went with the old power seat method. I ran the bleeder line to a bottle above the caliper so no air bubbles would climb toward the caliper in between my pedal pumps. When it looked good, I did the last push and hold on the pedal by putting a piece of 2x4 (with pad) between the pedal and drivers seat and powered forward until fully depressed. Much more reliable than any human help I have ever come up with. A pressure system makes a lot of sense if you do this regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 A pressure system makes a lot of sense if you do this regularly. A process that works for you is all you need. Yeah, with this many, I do this pretty regularly. SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rporter Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 A process that works for you is all you need. Yeah, with this many, I do this pretty regularly. SBT Even if you only flush one car a year, IMHO the Motive pressure bleeder is still woth it. Over the last few years, for my cars & friends cars, it has delivered a perfect brake flush every time. We just did my buddy's low-mile '89 Caddy last Friday, and he says the brakes are twice as good as they ever were. It's like a lot of other tools. You spend the $50-80 bucks once, and you have a great tool to use for many years. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBT Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Even if you only flush one car a year, IMHO the Motive pressure bleeder is still woth it. Over the last few years, for my cars & friends cars, it has delivered a perfect brake flush every time. We just did my buddy's low-mile '89 Caddy last Friday, and he says the brakes are twice as good as they ever were. It's like a lot of other tools. You spend the $50-80 bucks once, and you have a great tool to use for many years. Couldn't agree more. Or, put another way, my sentiments xactly! SBT - Pro amore Dei et patriam et populum - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KartRacerBoy Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Related but , once I've opened my can of ATE Blue brake fluid, how long can I keep it b4 it absorbs too much moisture? BTW, once open, the cap doesn't seal very well. It never gets tight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rporter Posted June 22, 2006 Share Posted June 22, 2006 Related but , once I've opened my can of ATE Blue brake fluid, how long can I keep it b4 it absorbs too much moisture? BTW, once open, the cap doesn't seal very well. It never gets tight. A few folks I know go with the "3 month rule". FWIW, I never save it beyond a few days. if one of the other cars can't use a topping-off, I pitch it.....or use it as a weed killer for the cracks in the driveway!! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtspecB Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Weed killer ... good suggestion! my vBGarage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KartRacerBoy Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 A few folks I know go with the "3 month rule". FWIW, I never save it beyond a few days. if one of the other cars can't use a topping-off, I pitch it.....or use it as a weed killer for the cracks in the driveway!! You're an environmental disaster! Buy then again I used my leaded race gas in my lawnmower since I had no kids back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted August 19, 2007 Share Posted August 19, 2007 +1!! I have no connection to Motive Products other than being an extremely satisfied user, but their Pressure Bleeder is THE ONLY way to flush your brake system, and I have tried about all other methods (my old vacuum bleeder now functions as a good suction pump for tranny and diff fluids!!)............ What pressure are you pumping up to with the Motive Bleeder, when you bleed the Subaru brakes? I only used 10psi last time I bled the brakes, because I did not want to damage the plastic resevoir above the master cylinder. I would like to use a higher pressure next time, to get a stronger fluid flow through the bleeders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rporter Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 What pressure are you pumping up to with the Motive Bleeder, when you bleed the Subaru brakes? I only used 10psi last time I bled the brakes, because I did not want to damage the plastic resevoir above the master cylinder. I would like to use a higher pressure next time, to get a stronger fluid flow through the bleeders. I use the same for all of the vehicles..... I air-pressure test to about 22 to make sure it' s sealed to the m/c. I then only go to 20 psi with fluid in it. I do pump it up when it gets below 15, though. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outahere Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 I use the same for all of the vehicles..... I air-pressure test to about 22 to make sure it' s sealed to the m/c. I then only go to 20 psi with fluid in it. I do pump it up when it gets below 15, though. Thanks for the info. I found out the hard way how important the air pressure test is. Brake fluid can leak dramatically if the cap is not perfectly sealed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rporter Posted August 20, 2007 Share Posted August 20, 2007 Thanks for the info. I found out the hard way how important the air pressure test is. Brake fluid can leak dramatically if the cap is not perfectly sealed! +1!! I learned the hard way.....not once, but twice!! Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2006Specb122 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 What about that article where using the new tools caused air to get forced into the fluid..... is that true? Also, what model of the Motive bleeder is best? They have like 10 different models now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rporter Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 What about that article where using the new tools caused air to get forced into the fluid..... is that true? Also, what model of the Motive bleeder is best? They have like 10 different models now.... PM repy sent. Short answer is to just get the Universal model for $57.95 for the LGT. Review the other models and adaptor caps for other vehicles you own, but the Universal cap will work on any vehicle. All of their models use the same bottle it'sjust that different m/c adaptors are included with the different models, as it's cheaper than buying them a la carte. FWIW, the rectangular cap works well on older GM vehicles. The Ford cap is "OK", but the lip on the m/c is weak, so you can't get much pressure. I ended up going back to the Universal cap for the Fords. The Ford adaptor cap also fits the LGT, but it has the same problem of a weak lip on the m/c, so the Universal worked better. The screw-on Euro type worked great on my 911. BTW, air cannot get "forced" into brake fluid, it cannot absorb air. The air pressure used with the Motive tool is far less than the pressure used when you mash the brake pedal. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2006Specb122 Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 OK so better then smashing brake pedal.... I will consder it...thanks for both replies Also, I don't know WHEN I'll have a buddy over here working on it with me... I think they got burnt out when it took me several days to do my complete stage 2 system because of a nasty leak it took forever to solve..... spent some all nighters under that blasted car... anyways.... I like KEEFE's idea with one person at each caliper, one person refilling fluid in master cylinder and one person on the pedal.....that would be freaking awesome! Get the entire thing done in 4 minutes!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rporter Posted January 17, 2008 Share Posted January 17, 2008 The Motive Bleeder is the "true" one-man operation. Frankly, it takes longer to set it up than it does to completely flush your system. I go to each corner with a tube into a drain bottle for the bleeder screw (I use the quart bottle I used to fill the Bleeder bottle). I also have a small hammer to tap the caliper to dislodge bubbles. When I start at 20 psi, I have to pump it up a bit a couple of times (I let it drop to 15, to pump back up to 20). If you have all four wheels off the ground, you can flush the whole system in 10 minutes. Of course, getting the car in the air and setting up the bleeder takes more time, but that setup takes me maybe a half-hour. It takes a full quart of fluid to flush the whole system on any of the cars I've used it on. The truck took 1.5 quarts, but I don't think it had ever been flushed in the first 100K of it's life with the first owner. I keep the Motive bleeder, the adaptors, clear tubing, C-clamp for the pistons, empty bottle for draining, and a full pint of fluid in a plastic toolbox the size of a tackle box. I ust take it with me for any track events in case someone needs it. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenonk Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 ^ very true I think it's just easier to get my friend to help me bleed the brakes. Keefe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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