Legacy GT Brake Bleeding

[derffred]

So do I need this thing? I just don't want to buy some tool for $20 that I don't know how to use and that I am never going to use again. My friend (the lexus tech) has all the wrenches and what not, but not this bleeder thing.

 

If he's a tech.. don't worry about it he should be okay.. if worse comes to worse.. just sit in the car, hold the pedal down, he'll crack the bleeder then close it an you let go of the pedal.. then go refill the reservoir ;]

[SBT]

I'm a tech for Mercedes and we have a little pump that screws onto the reservoir that keeps the system pressurized and adds fluid into the reservoir accordingly.. start from the wheel that's furthest from master cylinder, crack the bleeder screw an let it come out til there's no more bubbles/dirt/grime.. an work your way closer an closer.. btw.. be careful, brake fluid destroys your paint.

 

Sorry derffred - For Subarus (especially late-model ABS equipped Subarus) - please follow this wheel bleeding sequence ... Right Front - Left Rear - Left Front - Right Rear. melayout provided the how-to pdf above...2005 Legacy Brake Bleed pdf.

 

SBT

[SBT]

You need 8 and 10.. definitely not a 15..

 

Thanks for pointing out the picture's incorrect mm size. Hopefully members will read the caption and realize that the size is 8mm and 10mm.

 

SBT

[derffred]

Sorry derffred - For Subarus (especially late-model ABS equipped Subarus) - please follow this wheel bleeding sequence ... Right Front - Left Rear - Left Front - Right Rear. melayout provided the how-to pdf above...2005 Legacy Brake Bleed pdf.

 

SBT

 

Hey, don't be sorry.. i was jus throwing in my .02

i missed that pdf up there..

[rporter]

So do I need this thing? I just don't want to buy some tool for $20 that I don't know how to use and that I am never going to use again. My friend (the lexus tech) has all the wrenches and what not, but not this bleeder thing.

 

If you bleed brakes on a car more than oce a year (for multiple cars, or one car), YES, you need this thing.

 

This is the only true one-man way to flush your brakes and it does a perfect job every time. The system that derffred mentioned works as this one does.

 

I have attachmnets for the m/c for all of my cars. It takes longer to set it up than it does to flush the entire system. The whole thing fits into a plastic toolbox that take with me for track days.

 

Doing it the old two-man-with-one-pumping-the-brake-pedal takes forever to flush the system, plus you can also damage your m/c if the guy pumping isn't careful.

[rporter]

Sorry derffred - For Subarus (especially late-model ABS equipped Subarus) - please follow this wheel bleeding sequence ... Right Front - Left Rear - Left Front - Right Rear. melayout provided the how-to pdf above...2005 Legacy Brake Bleed pdf.

 

SBT

 

The wheel-bleeding sequence (and ABS or non-ABS doesn't matter) is not critical. Since the advent of split braking systems (in about 1965), everybody else has always recommended doing the longest run (rear brakes) first.

 

IMHO the whole system should be flushed through anyway at least once a year. Whether you start at the front or rear doesn't matter.

 

ABS doesn'tmatter because you aren't flushing the ABS controller anyway, unless you have the tool to open the valves in it.

[SBT]

Ron, I bought the Motive Brake Bleeder system so that I'm not having to look for my wife or daughters to provide the, excuse the expression, "motive force" on the brake pedals. If it were just the one or perhaps two that would be okay, but trying to get all eight done each year is asking a little more than even they're willing to commit lol.

 

WRT the brake bleeding sequence, I agree with you on the process for most ABS-equipped cars. It's just that Subaru, with the advent of ABS, has changed their specified brake bleeding process to the one indicated in pdf above. Not sure why they require that process but when I talked to the master tech about it, he indicated that it has something to do with the ABS. Go figure.

 

SBT

[jc51373]

Well if I don't 'need' this thing I am not going to buy it...I dont bleed my brakes often, in fact normally I would never do it. I am only doing this for two reasons: 1) I hate the stock brakes in this car & b) I am about to make it faster by going stage 1. Figured, considering those two factors it made sense to make it stop the way I like first.

 

Anyway, if I can get this done with someone who is very knowledgable, has more than all the tools necessary (except the bleeder:icon_frow ), then I am going to go that route. I gotta admit, I want to do this without spending much more $$ too. I already spent alot on the SS line (goodridge), the fluid (motul) and the pads (endless Vitas).

 

 

My only remaining question (ya sure!) is will the manual method require more than two bottles of fluid to get the job done? If so I gotta get more Motul. It sounds like the bleeder makes a more efficient use of the fluid.

 

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the feedback.

[SBT]

If you've got someone helping you that routinely works on and bleeds brake systems, then you should be good to go. The instructions above are pretty clear and the torque specs are all there too. Keep an eye on the master cylinder to ensure you don't run it dry and two bottles of fluid will be enough. Let the MC go dry and you'll likely need two more bottles to get all the air out. Just go slow and take your time, including the pump-up time during the brake bleed process

 

Let us know how it all comes out, especially the brake line install, pads, and bleeding process. You may be one of the few running the Vitas.

 

SBT

[jc51373]

If you've got someone helping you that routinely works on and bleeds brake systems, then you should be good to go. The instructions above are pretty clear and the torque specs are all there too. Keep an eye on the master cylinder to ensure you don't run it dry and two bottles of fluid will be enough. Let the MC go dry and you'll likely need two more bottles to get all the air out. Just go slow and take your time, including the pump-up time during the brake bleed process

 

Let us know how it all comes out, especially the brake line install, pads, and bleeding process. You may be one of the few running the Vitas.

 

SBT

 

 

Will do, thanks for the info.

 

I hear you on the Vitas, hopefully me being one of the few is not a bad thing. They seemed like best choice for my needs, just hope they don't suck ass.

[edmundu]

In the vacation pics, it is specifically noted, on how to bleed the brakes. Here is the part referring to bleeding order:

"NOTE:

Perform the operation in order from the closest

wheel cylinder to the master cylinder."

 

It is not the same as the WRX/STI bleeding procedure. Although the most important part is to remove the air within the system, and to flush clean fluid through all the lines.

[KartRacerBoy]

Late to the party. Read all posts and I'm confused. I'm replacing my brakes with Brembos on all four corners and ss lines. I'm also replacing the fluid with ATE Blue fluid. Do I need to flush the ABS controller since I'm changing fluid types? I'm presuming the ABS system is a separate, self-contained hydraulic system. Is this correct?

[Deer Killer]

In the vacation pics, it is specifically noted, on how to bleed the brakes. Here is the part referring to bleeding order:

"NOTE:

Perform the operation in order from the closest

wheel cylinder to the master cylinder."

 

It is not the same as the WRX/STI bleeding procedure. Although the most important part is to remove the air within the system, and to flush clean fluid through all the lines.

The vacation pics actually contradicts itself, however FYI the closest wheel to the master cylinder is actually the right front

[melayout]

How is it the right front? Isn't the master cylinder on the driver's side?

[Deer Killer]

How is it the right front? Isn't the master cylinder on the driver's side?

But everything gets routed to the ABS controller, so there is less brakeline going to the right front than the left front.

[rporter]

Late to the party. Read all posts and I'm confused. I'm replacing my brakes with Brembos on all four corners and ss lines. I'm also replacing the fluid with ATE Blue fluid. Do I need to flush the ABS controller since I'm changing fluid types? I'm presuming the ABS system is a separate, self-contained hydraulic system. Is this correct?

 

Personally, I would flush the ABS controller when going to ATE over the stock fluid. I didn't bother in my flushes with Valvoline Synthetic, but I know one case a few years ago, on another vehicle, where a buddy of mine was getting a soft pedal when he mixed ATE with stock Ford fluid, and it corrected itself with a complete system flush. FWIW, unless you like the color changes with ATE Valvoline Synth gives up very little to ATE in both dry/wet boiling points, it's 1/2 the price, and available everywhere.

 

Being my first Subaru, I'm guessing that there are ABS tools out there (besides at the dealer) to open up the ABS valves ( used to have a $55 Thexton tool for my Ford setup).

 

Of course, there's always the old-fashioned flush-engage ABS on a dirt road-flush again method. Which is convenient for me with a dirt road behind me!

[KartRacerBoy]

Ahem...

[KartRacerBoy]

Late to the party. Read all posts and I'm confused. I'm replacing my brakes with Brembos on all four corners and ss lines. I'm also replacing the fluid with ATE Blue fluid. Do I need to flush the ABS controller since I'm changing fluid types? I'm presuming the ABS system is a separate, self-contained hydraulic system. Is this correct?

 

[KartRacerBoy]

Alright people. Someone has to have this information. Ante up. I want to do my install this afternoon!

[rporter]

Not sure what you are really looking for. Yes, every ABS system is a self-controlled system, as well as "self-contained".....depending on what you mean by that.

 

By "self-contained", that does not mean that it has it's own fluid supply. It gets it's fluid from the m/c, but it is sealed off from the rest of the brake system until the ABS is activated.

 

If you do a normal brake flush, you flush out all but the fluid in the ABS controller. If you get a breakout box to open the ABS valves, and or do the "dirt road" trick after the first flush (then flush again), you will flush the fluid in the ABS controller.

[KartRacerBoy]

Thank you Rporter. That is exactly what I wanted to know.

[red beast]

after reading this thread i wonder how many of you, that changed your brake lines, really got a complete replacement flush with the mutol fluid?

 

in other words, it still seems you have the old fluid in the abs system section and not the mutol.

[rporter]

after reading this thread i wonder how many of you, that changed your brake lines, really got a complete replacement flush with the mutol fluid?

 

in other words, it still seems you have the old fluid in the abs system section and not the mutol.

 

You are correct.

 

BUT....as long as Motul (or other fluids) are compatible with what you had, it's not really that much of an issue.

 

The brake fluid that 'cooks" is out by the calipers, and the fluid that tends to get moisture is in the m/c.

 

Sure, if you haven't flushed for awhile, some of the "wet" fluid could migrate to the ABS, but I wouldn't worry about it.

 

FWIW (although I haven't looked around yet), I would like to get a breakout box like the Thexton I had for the Fords. I would leave the bleeders open, and cycle the breakout box, which would totally cycle the fluid in the ABS This is only something that i would do every few years, or when I changed fluid brands (which I no longer do....Valvoline is my stuff now).

 

On another side topic.....and I'm not looking for a flame fest or a long discussion here, as it is my opinion.....but Motul is overkill and not worth the $$$ for 99% of the folks, IMHO. Sure, for a really hot car that does track "racing", and not 15-20-minute track sessions, it can have a benefit. After doing 2-4 track events a year, I have dropped the ATE and gone with the Valvoline Synthetic, which works very well. FWIW (2) the one comment, from a track racer that I respect, is that he found Motul to give a softer pedal than ATE in his track car. Now, spending the $$$ for Motul is fine and won't hurt, but for someone like myself who does track events (with 15-20-minute sessions), the Valvoline does the job, and is available at any parts store for $6/quart. I do 2-3 brake flushes a year, usually after a track session (I will have three track events this year). For the street-only folks, is is MORE than adequate.

 

BTW, attached is a list of brake fluid stats that I've kept updated over the years.

Brake Fluid Dry-Wet Limits.pdf

[red beast]

^^^^i believe thats also whaty xenonk suggested about the fluid types.

 

 

since i don't autocross or really push the car i'm staying with the regular fluid.

 

currently i'm awaiting info about hawk hps pads, front and rear, and the correct brake lines for the 3.0r

[magnetic1]

... my opinion.....but Motul is overkill and not worth the $$$ for 99% of the folks, IMHO. Sure, for a really hot car that does track "racing", and not 15-20-minute track sessions, it can have a benefit. After doing 2-4 track events a year, I have dropped the ATE and gone with the Valvoline Synthetic, which works very well. FWIW (2) the one comment, from a track racer that I respect, is that he found Motul to give a softer pedal than ATE in his track car. Now, spending the $$$ for Motul is fine and won't hurt, but for someone like myself who does track events (with 15-20-minute sessions), the Valvoline does the job, and is available at any parts store for $6/quart. I do 2-3 brake flushes a year, usually after a track session (I will have three track events this year). For the street-only folks, is is MORE than adequate.

This is relatively true.... and we've always told PRETTY much the same to our customers (and we sell the stuff). However, if youre tracking your car, you can definitely use it. Especially if youre using rcomps or track pads, you'll heat up the system pretty darn fast. And depending on conditions (humidity, etc), that fluid can boil fast.

 

The Valvoline stuff is fine for street, and maybe suitable for a weekend DE person, but if you get anymore aggressive.. you may want to reconsider.

 

We now offer the Prospeed GS610 (Dry Boiling Point 610°F; Wet Boiling Point 421°F) which offers a firmer pedal feel than Motul. Aside from the boiling points, many do not consider viscosity or density. ProspeedGS610 is the most dense fluid on the market today (more dense than Castrol SRF!)

 

Funny thing is.. it's just like motor oil. People change out synthetic every 3-5k... yet they'd prolly run perfectly fine w/ regular oil for 7500 miles