H6 swapping Legacy

[Danko]

Hi guys, searching for help anywhere already. I'm stuck with Ez30d engine swap in my Legacy BP 2008 (ex-ej20 n/a)

Engine already sits in, I want to keep my 5 speed manual, but can't find any answer anywhere, will ECU from the photo handle manual gearbox and what eventually I would have to do to make it work right. Maybe here anyone knows it.

I have seller with whole wiring and such ecu.

Manual one is here rare, rare item 

 

Didn't say hello here, but didn't found any topic for it, so.. Hi guys, I'll probably stay here for a longer time

[m sprank]

No one here is going to know.  Not enough members from that side of the pond with the d engines. 

I have swapped other Subarus from auto to manual without swapping the ECM.  But...  it took a lot of rewiring and in the end the OBDII port would not operate while the car was running no matter what I did.  So, we ended up installing the correct ECM after about 1 year as it was a headache not being able to retrieve data "live".  

Seeing that the ECM pictured is from an A/T I would suspect that you can not use it.  The ECM will be programmed to work with the TCM (which you do not have) and has no programming for things like the clutch switch. 

[Danko]

2 hours ago, m sprank said:

No one here is going to know.  Not enough members from that side of the pond with the d engines. 

I have swapped other Subarus from auto to manual without swapping the ECM.  But...  it took a lot of rewiring and in the end the OBDII port would not operate while the car was running no matter what I did.  So, we ended up installing the correct ECM after about 1 year as it was a headache not being able to retrieve data "live".  

Seeing that the ECM pictured is from an A/T I would suspect that you can not use it.  The ECM will be programmed to work with the TCM (which you do not have) and has no programming for things like the clutch switch. 

That's what I have worries about. And at the same time, there are people who have done it

[m sprank]

Anything is possible.  It may have been done before.  It is also possible that the person/people responsible for the accomplishment are not sharing (for free) the parts/process.  It could very well involve highly technical details and micro-solder work within the ECM itself.  

[Danko]

10 minutes ago, m sprank said:

Anything is possible.  It may have been done before.  It is also possible that the person/people responsible for the accomplishment are not sharing (for free) the parts/process.  It could very well involve highly technical details and micro-solder work within the ECM itself.  

Tbh, if anyone would have p&p set for sale, I'd consider it too. 

Basically as long as ecu can work with it, wiring shouldn't be an issue. 

There are some people saying it's just matter of bridging neutral gear signal.. But it's kinda not enough for what wiring would cost. 

Kinda surprising, Legacy BP is quite popular, I didn't assume such knowledge will be so painful to get. 

 

[m sprank]

The diesel engines were never sold in the US.  Total worldwide sales of 2008 Legacy/Liberty were low in comparison to many other Japaneses manufactured cars.  They were not actually "popular".   The 4th gen Legacys that were most popular among Subaru enthusiasts were the EJ255 turbo models. 

I never published or shared the technical details on how I swapped a STi 6MT manual into an automatic using the automatic ecm, so I do not see why anyone would share the info on performing a automatic to manual ecm swap.  It took me over 1 month of research (schematics) and tracing electrical pathways on the ecm circuit board to figure out what I needed.  I charged $3k for the work iirc and the owner was amazed I did it for that little.  He expected twice as much ($6k). 

[Febreze Mee]

Referring OP to this thread:

It's a 6MT Spec B swap, but there may be some details in there for you to 

 

https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/peters-h6-manual-swap-outback.531081/
 

As Mike said, time/money is what it takes. There are a few resources mentioned in the thread above on how to get around the wiring.

 

[KZJonny]

So maybe the option is already out because of price and the like, but are those EDM engines supported by any standalones?
 

Money? Yes, of course. But reliable and probably not a bad tradeoff vs. the headache if you don't have the hours to spend traceing schematics and wiring diagrams...

[m sprank]

9 minutes ago, KZJonny said:

So maybe the option is already out because of price and the like, but are those EDM engines supported by any standalones?
 

Money? Yes, of course. But reliable and probably not a bad tradeoff vs. the headache if you don't have the hours to spend traceing schematics and wiring diagrams...

I believe the AEM Infinity supports the engine.  That is an EXPENSIVE alternative.

[KZJonny]

Yuup. That is spendy… had to look it up.

 

Then again, it does look like an ECU and some plug and play wiring would come in under $3K USD…. + a tune of course.

 

So, if you’re not a god-on-earth of Subarus, it still seems reasonable-ish.

[m sprank]

It all depends on how much you want to spend and how much time you want to take.  Its not my money and I certainly have spent enough in my life to recognize I have made some poor financial decisions with cars, lol. 

[Danko]

2 hours ago, Febreze Mee said:

Referring OP to this thread:

It's a 6MT Spec B swap, but there may be some details in there for you to 

 

https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/peters-h6-manual-swap-outback.531081/
 

As Mike said, time/money is what it takes. There are a few resources mentioned in the thread above on how to get around the wiring.

 

This may be helpful, thank you! 

@m sprankas for the time, money.. I'm already past any reasonable amounts I think. It started with unexpected engine rebuild - someone washed the engine with injectors unplugged and left so for shipping - engine came to me full of water.

Then a lot of minor stuff happened, so here I am on month 8 or 9 of the whole operation. The engine is already in the car lacking few cooling elements and exhaust (custom made in progress). 

I think, for now it will end up with managing neutral signal to get it running and then working on details. 

As for not sharing the knowledge - I'm not planning to make money of it, I just look for some knowledge support, as I'm stuck and don't know which way to head now - as it has gone too far to just give up on whole thing. 

 

 

[m sprank]

Download the FSM.  Search "Vacation pix" they are posted all over the forum.  That will give you the pin out of the ECM and connectors.  From their you can trace the signals to the TCM/BIU.  You have to locate he "neutral switch" so that the car will start.  You also have to trace out the signals to the dash as you may need to modify the speedo signal.  The MT has no TCU, so you need to make sure that anything normally coming from/going to the TCU is correct (gear position, rpm, etc).  BIU controls the alarm and engine kill functions.  Need to verify that it registers the key properly.  If you get it all 100% correct the car will run properly and make 100% power, but have a non-functional OBDII port when the car is running. 

 

Only a handful of people/shops in the US have done the swap.  I did it for my customer back in 2014-2015 iIrc.  It made my head hurt, but I was rather proud of myself when it worked.  We modified the car further as time went on and had to eventually swap ECM's in order to properly tune the car.

 

Sounds like you kinds of got "forced" into the situation.  I am worried you are going to spend more than the car is worth to get it right.  I have no clue on costs, VAT, etc where it is you are located.  I am assuming Eastern Europe. 

[Danko]

8 hours ago, m sprank said:

Download the FSM.  Search "Vacation pix" they are posted all over the forum.  That will give you the pin out of the ECM and connectors.  From their you can trace the signals to the TCM/BIU.  You have to locate he "neutral switch" so that the car will start.  You also have to trace out the signals to the dash as you may need to modify the speedo signal.  The MT has no TCU, so you need to make sure that anything normally coming from/going to the TCU is correct (gear position, rpm, etc).  BIU controls the alarm and engine kill functions.  Need to verify that it registers the key properly.  If you get it all 100% correct the car will run properly and make 100% power, but have a non-functional OBDII port when the car is running. 

 

Only a handful of people/shops in the US have done the swap.  I did it for my customer back in 2014-2015 iIrc.  It made my head hurt, but I was rather proud of myself when it worked.  We modified the car further as time went on and had to eventually swap ECM's in order to properly tune the car.

 

Sounds like you kinds of got "forced" into the situation.  I am worried you are going to spend more than the car is worth to get it right.  I have no clue on costs, VAT, etc where it is you are located.  I am assuming Eastern Europe. 

Probably already spent too much on such car even before the swap - that was the reason to not change the car - brakes swapped, coils, few smaller things in suspension, lightweight clutch and bunch of other stuff. For now yeah - I'm kinda forced to just deal with it, as I misjudged the situation (and few people's). 

I'm from Eastern Europe - Poland. And there is noone here doing such things - well, at least I don't know such people. If I knew, I would be happy to pay for their knowledge and work. 

I'm almost sure to buy a/t ecu, manage to get neutral signal, make it running and then deal with smaller stuff. 

From what I know, rpms etc are from engine sensors, not the tcu, so it shouldn't be a problem. If I miss something, I'm of course happy to hear from you guys. 

At the same time, as I progress further - I'll probably open a thread for my car and describe, what I had to do to make it running - I would be more than happy if someone can make use of it in the future and just save some nerves. 

Or maybe this topic will transform in such thread, if I don't find any better place for it here

For now, here's how it looked this season when with old motor

Edited August 22, 2023 by Danko

[m sprank]

Cam and crank angle sensors send rpm signal to the tcu. The tcu then sends the signal to the ecm.  That's how you get p0700 series codes.  

Speed is determined in the cluster. 

I know of a few LGTs in Poland. Only reason I know of them is they all had odd issues not encountered stateside.  Probably a lack of local knowledge. Same type of situation in Saudi. Enthusiasts with enough coin to build the cars stateside then ship them home. When an issue pops up the cars are done as no one local can fix them. 

My tuner made yearly trips to take care of customer cars in Middle East. I was offered several trips, but declined. I shipped a few cars that way.

Good luck to you. 

[tysparks81]

5 hours ago, Danko said:

Probably already spent too much on such car even before the swap - that was the reason to not change the car - brakes swapped, coils, few smaller things in suspension, lightweight clutch and bunch of other stuff. For now yeah - I'm kinda forced to just deal with it, as I misjudged the situation (and few people's). 

I'm from Eastern Europe - Poland. And there is noone here doing such things - well, at least I don't know such people. If I knew, I would be happy to pay for their knowledge and work. 

I'm almost sure to buy a/t ecu, manage to get neutral signal, make it running and then deal with smaller stuff. 

From what I know, rpms etc are from engine sensors, not the tcu, so it shouldn't be a problem. If I miss something, I'm of course happy to hear from you guys. 

At the same time, as I progress further - I'll probably open a thread for my car and describe, what I had to do to make it running - I would be more than happy if someone can make use of it in the future and just save some nerves. 

Or maybe this topic will transform in such thread, if I don't find any better place for it here

For now, here's how it looked this season when with old motor

Car looks great and following for anything I might learn from this over the course of getting this running. 

When you get your front bumper off, can you take a few pics of the wiring to your windshield & headlight washer reservoir.  Thanks.

[m sprank]

Its even left hand drive???

[tysparks81]

6 hours ago, m sprank said:

Its even left hand drive???

yup Poland was one of the countries in Europe that is LHD 

[m sprank]

My favorite customer of all time was named Marcin.  He was from Poland (and went back all the time).  CRAZY MO FO.  We hit it off and had some fun outside of "work".  I miss hanging with Marcin sometimes. 

[tysparks81]

On 8/22/2023 at 6:58 PM, m sprank said:

My favorite customer of all time was named Marcin.  He was from Poland (and went back all the time).  CRAZY MO FO.  We hit it off and had some fun outside of "work".  I miss hanging with Marcin sometimes. 

All of the polish people I know or have meet have been good fun loving people.