m sprank Posted May 20, 2023 Share Posted May 20, 2023 (edited) Hmmm. Thats not good. I hope the engine did not jump timing when it died while driving. Troubleshooting procedure from the FSM (specific to your model year): P0340.pdf Edited May 20, 2023 by m sprank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrianroll Posted May 20, 2023 Author Share Posted May 20, 2023 Ha, with his luck it probably did. appreciate the link, it saves me time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrianroll Posted May 20, 2023 Author Share Posted May 20, 2023 Bear with me, I don’t do a lot of elec texting so the settings are a bit foreign….I learn as I go…if I followed the steps correctly this is the result.. Black wire #1? is 14.93 on 20k, 14.9 on 200k White wire #2 is 0 on all settings new sensor is 1.9 on 200k, old one 2.0. Sometimes my dyslexia kicks in and I do things backwards….makes troubleshooting fun lol does this sound correct or did I goof? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 The FSM is calling out two different kinds of test here. The second one probably won't help you since both old and new sensors won't run the engine, but it is asking to put the meter in ohms resistance mode and test the sensor on the bench between the two wires it has. 4000 ohms or 4k ohms is good, significantly different from that is not good. I've also done my own test on this kind of sensor by putting the meter in volts mode connected as above and then quickly pass a magnet over the tip of the sensor and watch for a little pulse of volts on the sensor. Should be zero volts at rest, and just 1 or 2 as the magnet goes by. The test it looks like you need is the first one. This one is also more like a bench test in that the sensor is disconnected and the car is all the way shut down. This one is also calling out a resistance test to check if the wires are OK, and it looks like from the numbers you gave that you are using voltage mode with the key on. The connector it is talking about E15 is the engine harness side item 15 that the cam sensor plugs in to. Using the shape of the connector from the diagram testing pin 1 with one meter probe in pin 1 and one meter probe going to a good body ground if it is 100K ohms or more it means the circuit is broken open and if it is 10 ohms or less it is shorted to ground. For pin 2 you do the same, but they are only doing the open circuit test. They show it in diagrams, but they don't call it out with step by step. You can check wire continuity from E15 to E1 and see if the problem is in the engine harness and from B20 where the engine harness connects to the body harness at the bell housing upper right and the B84 where the ECU connects. You could check that B20/E1 connection for loose/corroded before we get too far. I know mine is starting to have troubles at the B20/E1. The latches on mine are broke from one of my engine out services. A more difficult way to test this would involve also disconnecting the ECU in the footwell and using a known good wire with the meter to check continuity of the two cam sensor wires, but we don't want to get in to that unless we are forced. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 I guess at this point I should ask what part of the country you are in so we can start thinking about moisture/salt problems or pack rat problems, etc, that kind of thing to see what kinds of troubles are likely with your wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrianroll Posted May 21, 2023 Author Share Posted May 21, 2023 Interesting…key was off, meter was in ohms mode, pretty sure the ignition was off and key not in it…could be wrong there…battery was not in car, will that throw a ohm check out of whack? I just went through a similar issue with my dumb jeep, backprobing the tps from the ecm was ok because I was hitting the wire and connector, ended up buying a new pigtail and running new wires from the ecm….I suck with electrical stuff… I will redo the test tomorrow to confirm I didn’t mess it up. I am in western Washington, by the beach so salty air. Nothing looks out of the ordinary to my eyes…comparing to other vehicles. So far I haven’t seen signs of rodents in this car, that’s for the xterra and forester… Thanks for our input and help…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 (edited) Electrical is pretty hard compared to most things on a car and also quite difficult to work on through the net, so no worries about how hard it is, we'll work through it. Hopefully we won't have too many blind alleys. OK, sounds like you did the test right then. Just coincidence that the numbers looked like voltage. So was the test 14 ohms, or 14K ohms? I think you are saying 14K ohms since the meter was on the 20K range. I would say that your wire #1 if 14K ohms is OK, if it is 14 ohms I would call that a short to ground that isn't conducting very much. Wire #2 being 0 ohms sounds like it is shorted to ground. If there wasn't work done on the car sometime before the problem then I would look for a pinched spot on the wire or at where it goes through the firewall. You can redo the #2 wire test with the E1/B20 joint disconnected. If it is still 0 ohms at the cam sensor connector then the short is in the engine harness, if not, then you would check at the B20 connector on the needed pin and if it is zero there go to the ECU and disconnect there and test again. Still zero would be in the body harness, no longer zero would be a problem in the ECU. But keep in mind that you want to visually inspect all these things before touching them as sometimes touching it to disconnect something for test can free up the short to ground. From what I see in the world Subaru ECUs don't blow very often without help, so it seems unlikely that this would be your problem. I don't know about your year, but mine has a weird rotating lever to unlock the big wiring connector from the ECU so watch out for that. Edited May 21, 2023 by doublechaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrianroll Posted May 21, 2023 Author Share Posted May 21, 2023 Thank you for your time, I’m not the best trouble shooter but getting a little better lol. To be complete honest I need to read up on ohms testing and the settings. I have always been told what setting to put it in when testing so I haven’t had to think about it. I’ve tested voltage quite a bit, but not for continuity. Slow morning so far but will be heading out in. A bit to make sure I did it correct and check what setting it was on… The car had a few issues, when I got it, the big one was head gasket failure. I redid those. The only thing I can think of that was done after that was a new coil pack. And was running after that for a week or more.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted May 21, 2023 Share Posted May 21, 2023 Gotta go Costco with wifey. Looks like @doublechaz has you pointed in the right direction and has given very detailed instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrianroll Posted May 21, 2023 Author Share Posted May 21, 2023 Yeah, very detailed, I just hope my deciphering of it is correct in my brain, you guys are great, really appreciate your help and patience…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrianroll Posted May 21, 2023 Author Share Posted May 21, 2023 Okie dokie….as of right now here are the results….not sure if it matters, using a Craftsman 82141 multi meter. Definitely not what the pros use… ignition off, no key in ignition, battery out of car. Wire #1…tested on all settings since I do not know what I should be on… 200-no results, 2000- no results 20k-14.92 200k-14.9 2000k-14 I interpreted this as good as it was not over 100, and also was not 10 or less. Wire #2… tested same as other.. 200-.5 no results in other modes. this also made a beep in the beep setting.. Sensor was.. 20k-1.89 200k-1.8 2000k-001 Next test will #2 as you mentioned, working back to the ecm. I think I found all the diagrams and the service manual so I should have a n idea what I’m looking at. Son had plans so I am not crawling around under the dash as I have back issues lol Guess I’ll see what size bushings I need for the stupid jeep.. Thanks again… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 OK. I see what you are doing with the tests and you are getting 14.9K ohm on wire #1 and 50K ohm on wire #2. When the value is too big for the range setting you are on it gives no answer or error or over, some answer like that. Once you get the range big enough it gives a value, and if you have the range too big then you get the answer, but it cuts away some of the precision. So with a value of 14900 ohm it is too big for 200 and 2000 ranges, it gives 14920 (14.92K) on the 20,000 range and 14900 (14.9K) on the 200,000 range. On wire #2 the answer of 50k is too big for every setting until the 200k range, and on the 2,000k or 2M range 0.5 seems to round to 0. That is good for the testing, but it is bad as far as figuring out what is going on here as that is a pass on the three wiring tests in the manual. I think we need a recheck on the sensors in the 20k range setting. Manual says they should give an answer of 4k so the readout should be "over" on the 2k range and "4" on the 20k range. I pulled the cam sensor on my second gen and I remembered it wrong. Putting the meter on the 2 volt range and moving a magnet past it while testing resulted in 0.035 to 0.040 volts depending how fast and what direction I moved the magnet. I don't know if your meter will show a result that tiny or not. Probably it will, but it is a lot smaller value than I thought. No wonder the sensor uses a twisted pair with shield. That signal would be easy to lose in the engine bay noise. I don't know if the sensor is the same one or a different model on your third gen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverton Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 On 5/20/2023 at 12:53 PM, m sprank said: I hope the engine did not jump timing when it died while driving. if your sensor and wiring check out, this is next Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrianroll Posted May 22, 2023 Author Share Posted May 22, 2023 Yeah, that will be fun for him to tear into. I put all new stuff in when I did the head gaskets. Do these motors jump like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted May 22, 2023 Share Posted May 22, 2023 1 hour ago, cbrianroll said: Do these motors jump like that? Short answer, yes. They are also interference engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrianroll Posted May 22, 2023 Author Share Posted May 22, 2023 Weird, maybe he gave it a little too much oomph. yeah, hopefully nothing is damaged badly then, he didn’t hear a clunk, bang etc. not that that doesn’t mean it’s fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 If we doubt mechanical timing, best not to rotate the engine again until it's ruled out. When you were cranking it before did it sound like normal compression, loping compression, or no compression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrianroll Posted May 23, 2023 Author Share Posted May 23, 2023 Ugh….I have hearing loss…but it sounded like it did, it was turning over slower… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 OK. Turning over slower probably means the battery is a little low from trying to start and not running to recharge. A Great battery would be 12.7 volts in the off position. A good one 12.6. Lower than that and it would be ideal to take steps to refill it. If it is down to 12.3 you should definitely charge it as soon as you can. Do we want to start talking about how to check the cam mechanical timing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrianroll Posted May 23, 2023 Author Share Posted May 23, 2023 The battery is definitely old but would start it with no problems. It seamed slower like it was struggling more…even with the bad battery. Unless there is a better way, I was gonna pull the covers, get it at TDC, and check the marks. I was even thinking of pulling the timing belt so I can confirm with the belt markings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublechaz Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 Pull the covers and wrench it through until the marks line up as shown in the FSM. Don't pull the belt unless the marks don't line up. Unless it's time to replace the belt and tensioner, then pull away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrianroll Posted May 23, 2023 Author Share Posted May 23, 2023 I’m hoping I can line up the marks… figured pulling the belt as a”reset” like I just put the heads on, if it can to that… All was new when I did the heads…last year? since it was apart, belt, tensioners, water pump, etc. Probably should get a new belt if it jumped teeth don’t you think? Might have rounded edges to slip again? Guess I shouldn’t put the cart before the horse…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrianroll Posted May 24, 2023 Author Share Posted May 24, 2023 Off we go…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrianroll Posted May 24, 2023 Author Share Posted May 24, 2023 Booooo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrianroll Posted May 24, 2023 Author Share Posted May 24, 2023 Soooo….why would a new belt break?!?!? I'm pulling the rest of the cover as we speak… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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