05 Legacy GT transgo slow to shift 1st to 2nd

[algol]

I upgraded my 05 Legacy GT with a VF52, new fueling, and a transgo shift kit. Running about 300awhp. 

Car is running great except for 1st gear. Takes 1500rpm to shift after hitting button. In auto mode it just hits limiter. 

The other gears are fast to shift and seem to work well. 

My shop suggested that as the trans has 120k miles on it that maybe I should have it rebuilt. 

I am no expert and learning as I go. Could anyone help to advise me? Thanks so much! 

Edited April 15, 2023 by algol

[algol]

Any ideas?

[m sprank]

No data. No assist. We can hypothesize endlessly, but why?  Car has an advanced tcm that provides many of the answers. 

[algol]

3 minutes ago, m sprank said:

No data. No assist. We can hypothesize endlessly, but why?  Car has an advanced tcm that provides many of the answers. 

Well, I don't even know if the behavior is normal or not. Like maybe that's as good as it gets. 

[silverton]

My 2001 delays shifts and it's annoying AF, even after a rebuild, guy said he hadn't seen one as bad as mine LOL.  I drive these second/third gens all the time and I haven't come across many that shift like mine, but they are out there.  No idea what it is... probably an ecm/tcm update at some point that's too late to do now

[m sprank]

For a 05 5eat it is not normal. Could be an issue with a solenoid. Tcu should have some stored data. But, like Silverton elluded to, support is limited and the tools are scarce. 

[silverton]

While I was at a dealer in 2019 I was able to figure out how to update my 2001 impreza, no one there could remember how to do it, I had three things all daisy chained together with their own power sources and sketchy cables, I was sweatin BULLETS hoping it didn't fail.  A year later when I acquired my 2001 legacy, which needed the same update, but we had gotten newer laptops in that time and it could no longer interface with the older SSM box needed to update the car.

The flashwrite I have at my independent only goes back to 2003 or 4... kinda sad as I'm pretty sure it's a handmedown from the dealer and I'd love to update my legacy.

[algol]

Thanks so much for the feedback so far. Sounds like maybe the best course of action is to find a good transmission shop and have them investigate...

[algol]

I should add that I've had this car since it was new. 1st gear has always taken 1500rpm to shift. It's always had issues hitting the limiter in first gear in auto, at least ever since I did stage 2. After the VF52 upgrade the tranny had no idea what it was doing. The shift kit has improved things dramatically. But 1st gear is still slow to shift. So, basically whatever the issue is it's probably been there for the life of the car. 

[m sprank]

Smh.  Owned car for 18 years, has had an issue with trans since new.  Decided to mod car with issues rather than resolve first. Continued mods as trans failure worsens. Modded trans that has had issues since day 1 rather than resolve initial issues. 

Now you ask a forum for remote assistance???

Ludicrous. 

[silverton]

13 hours ago, algol said:

I should add that I've had this car since it was new. 1st gear has always taken 1500rpm to shift. It's always had issues hitting the limiter in first gear in auto, at least ever since I did stage 2. After the VF52 upgrade the tranny had no idea what it was doing. The shift kit has improved things dramatically. But 1st gear is still slow to shift. So, basically whatever the issue is it's probably been there for the life of the car. 

Yeah you probably should have gotten that sorted while the car was still under warranty my guy. Maybe revert to pre-stage 2 status and see if your transmission still shifts funny.  If it doesn't then whatever tune you have isn't mapped correctly as the TCM is obviously seeing load values that aren't accurate.

[algol]

There is no need to be rude. The issues I had originally I assumed were just limitations of the auto. There was also no dealership in my town. So dealing with issues was a pain. 
 

I lived overseas for a while and during that time my dad had the car. He did end up taking the car to the dealer. They replaced a faulty solonoid and reverted the car to a stock tune (even though he told them not to flash it). The car was shifting fine in auto mode when I got it back from my dad. Did not hit limiter. In manual mode it still took 1500rpm. But it has always done that. 
 

I brought up the shifting to my shop but they said we should worry about that later. After the mods the trans behaved erratically. I took the car back to have a shift kit installed. That has basically solved the problem. It’s just first gear now that is slow. The trans is certainly not failing. And the shift kit was a good mod and necessary as far as I can tell.

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by algol

[silverton]

What has been said isn't rude, it's a fact. If you think that's rude well... tough. Since the original issue is still present, every thing you've done in between is a bandaid.  HolUp, your shop reverted your modified vehicle back to its original mapping AND told you to worry about errant shifting "later"??

 

I'd find a new shop.

Edited April 20, 2023 by silverton

[algol]

LOL! It's not my job to educate you on how to be a polite member of society. That was for your parents, but I guess it's probably too late now. 

I had always assumed that the slow shifting was just a limitation of the automatic. I had read how the TCU is slow. I just accepted that it was slow to shift 1st to 2nd and that this was made worse by the HP increase. As I could just time it and hit the button early, I never worried about it.

My dad took it to subaru when I was overseas. They flashed it and replaced a solenoid. When I got it back years later it was shifting fine in auto, but in manual 1st was still slow to shift. I again assumed this was just a limitation of the transmission.

I decided to replace the turbo, as it was underperforming anyway. I told the shop about the transmission shifting slow, but they said we should see how it behaved after the mods before messing with it. That seemed reasonable I guess.

When I got the car back the transmission was not shifting correctly (very slow to shift in 1st and 2nd). No one knew what to do but to try the shift kit, which was a total improvement. However, 1st gear remains slower than I'd like and hits the limiter in auto mode under full throttle (just doesn't shift in time).

I can take it to a transmission shop and have them look at it, but I guess I'm hesitant to think there is gonna be an easy solution. I just wanted to get some feedback and ideas so I knew what to talk about with the trans shop. 

Anyway, there is no need to be rude to me just because I may not have made the best decisions. I admitted upfront that I am no expert and learning as I go. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 20, 2023 by algol

[silverton]

I still don't see where anyone was inherently rude; facts from knowledgeable randoms on a public forum that is accessed for free is not rude.  If I told you you were a fucking idiot for even having a subaru and attempting to modify it at all, that's rude. You need a good baseline car to modify it safely.  You did not have a good baseline car to modify, and we're just telling you that.

 

rereading your original post I'm kind of weirded out why at 120k your shop would recommend a rebuild.  between 90-120k it should be getting one of its first fluid flushes if following the "it came with some from the factory why should I change it" maintenance schedule.  My first gen impreza's 4eat, afaik, was still original when I sold it at 260k and it shifted perfectly. My third gen legacy's 4eat didn't fail until 220k with unknown service history, all gears still worked, just sometimes reverse loaded up but the car didn't move like the parking brake was on.  The rebuild did not fix the legacy's delayed shifts, so I don't see a rebuild fixing yours either.  It all comes down to what the TCM is seeing for data/load values and if the incoming data/load is incorrect, it will shift incorrect.

On 4/18/2023 at 4:05 PM, m sprank said:

No data. No assist. We can hypothesize endlessly, but why?  Car has an advanced tcm that provides many of the answers. 

 

[algol]

Okay thanks for the info. Would any trans shop be able to access the TCM?

Edited April 21, 2023 by algol

[m sprank]

18 minutes ago, algol said:

Okay thanks for the info. Would any trans shop be able to access the TCM?

Probably not.  But you never know, Silverton has access to an SSMII.  They may get basic data and that might be enough.  Most likely they wont understand what Silverton is talking about.  If they do, they most likely wont have the tool.  A very knowledgeable Subaru shop with an in house tuner should be able to assist. 

Its a shot on the dark, but a dealership might still have the tools... if they are willing to help with a modded car. 

[algol]

48 minutes ago, m sprank said:

Probably not.  But you never know, Silverton has access to an SSMII.  They may get basic data and that might be enough.  Most likely they wont understand what Silverton is talking about.  If they do, they most likely wont have the tool.  A very knowledgeable Subaru shop with an in house tuner should be able to assist. 

Its a shot on the dark, but a dealership might still have the tools... if they are willing to help with a modded car. 

Thanks. This is good information. 

[silverton]

I have an SSM 2 even!  Any dealership will still be able to communicate with your car and update it if available, though this is quite the grey area with a modified car, I have been meaning to look if OPs MY has ecm/tcm updates on the laptop but I keep forgetting, I did look for reprogram file availability in the TSB's but nothing is mentioned.  The latest SSM4 also includes a software version of SSM3 and will communicate with vehicles 2005 and newer.  I tried a 2004 forester yesterday and the laptop SSM3 couldn't communicate, had to pull out the green brick (hardware ssm3).

I worked at THE dealer you want to take your car to if you live in and around the Seattle area.  When attempting the ECM update on my NA-T impreza, asked the shop foreman if I should "take it to walkers and see if any one there knew how" and his reply was essentially "they will get in your car, see your gauges, look under the hood, and give the key back to the service advisor without even starting it"

Edited April 21, 2023 by silverton

[algol]

It sounds like you think the issue might just be an old version of the transmission software never updated. Is that right?

A friend of mine thinks it could be a faulty solenoid. 

 

 

[silverton]

As I said, there are no TSB's for reprogram file availability so there may not be one for you.  it could be the solenoid.  Here are the tech notes from the transgo website.

Before installation, perform a thorough road test and scan the system for codes before starting. It is important to address any engine or transmission performance problems BEFORE attempting the installation of this product. If the car has been driven hard for very long with added horse power the friction materials may already be damaged, overhauling will be required. This product requires a good working transmission before installation. Use  extreme care in handling this valve-body assembly as the solenoids are fragile and at this time can not be ordered separately. Avoid applying pressure to the valve body with the solenoids contacting the bench. If you accidentally damage a solenoid the only current solution is to purchase a new valve-body

  if you do a search for 'subaru 5eat hard shift' there's a ridiculous number of people with this 'issue'. I skimmed through a few, two people had H6's though, one 2008 and one 2012 and they both said a tcm update was available and that corrected their issue.

This person said their car did have a TCM update available and as it's the same year, you likely do as well if it hasn't already been done.

https://www.subaruoutback.org/threads/2005-xt-5eat-transmission-woes.515744/

[algol]

Well the issue isn't that the shifts are hard. They didn't use to be hard. The shift kit though has made them hard when on throttle. When driving normally it's just like it was basically. But that's what it's supposed to do. The whole idea is to have firm sporty shifts. So, now when under full throttle it shifts hard into 2nd and the car kind of lurches forward. It's a very sporty shift. The issue is just that first gear shifts slow, not that it shifts hard. It also will hit the limiter in auto mode. Both problems are not the end of the world and totally manageable, as I can just use manual. I use manual mode anyway if I'm having fun with the car. But if possible I'd like it to be better. Not going to spend a million hours on it though. 

[silverton]

My 2001 Legacy's 4EAT is exactly the same way.  if it's full throttle it holds at the limiter for a moment before shifting abruptly and lurches, but if I'm just a touch off full throttle it shifts fast and sporty. I did spend $3000 on a rebuild but that was several years ago and I can't remember what all was replaced, other than the guy said it's the worst condition one he's ever seen.

Kinda makes a fella wonder if it's the throttle sensor, the tcm and ecm both receive a signal from it.  PITA that there can't just be a trouble code to point us to exactly what it is.

[algol]

I drove around and did some testing today. Under full throttle in manual mode it shifts pretty well. I got one shift from 1st to 2nd in about 1000rpm under full throttle after hitting the button. The shift felt good. Sometimes it takes a little longer but it's totally manageable. 

But auto mode gets confused. It revs too much in 1st gear. It will hit the limiter under full throttle and then shift. As I know it can shift (when I am in manual mode), it seems the problem has to do with the programming not the hardware. 

I looked at my records. The valve body was replaced by the dealership in 2021. 

 

Edited April 25, 2023 by algol

[silverton]

I did look yesterday and our laptop shows TCM updates for the 2005 legacy, but the update specifies shift shock from 4->3 and 3->2, not what you're describing. I wish my third gen had a manual mode so I could see if mine would shift normally like you experience, it would also help with diagnosis cause I'd start throwing parts at it, the girlfriend never complains about the way it drives so I'm sure it's being run in to the ground