2005 Legacy GT: Time for a First Engine Rebuild?

[emosley210]

Wow, first post here too.

So here's what happened. About a week ago I was going down the highway at 70mph and all of a sudden my engine shuts off and I get p0011 and p0021 codes. I tried restarting it because I didn't have service to look up the codes and the car cranks but won't really turn over. I get it towed home and start trying to figure out what happened.

I drop the oil pan and find a bunch of fine metal and shavings in there (pics below). I'm already aware that this forbidden glitter shouldn't be there so I start looking into where it came from. I pull the turbo and there's no play in the shaft, all the fins are still there, and it spins freely. All the banjo bolt filters are removed, The OCV's didn't seem all gunked up, and there's an aftermarket oil line with an inline filter for the turbo so as far as I can tell, the turbo didn't blow up on me.

Without breaking anything open all I can assume is that it's my engine bearings that just got shredded, right? There was never any rod knock though, it was just very sudden. 

Long story short, I've read enough on here that it sounds like my options are to rebuild the engine or sell the car as is for parts. 

I've always been pretty mechanically inclined but I've never attempted an engine rebuild on any vehicle. I've put a lot of time into this one and feel like I'd rather keep it than just chalk it up as a loss. Plus the idea of rebuilding the engine sounds like a fun challenge and a way to learn a lot more about this car in general. I've done a lot of reading on other threads like Max Capacity's trying to learn as much as I can but now I'm trying to figure out where I should start and what resources besides this forum I should look into if this is the path I choose to take.

Photo Apr 03 2023, 15 27 06.dng Photo Apr 03 2023, 15 27 14.dng

[m sprank]

Oh  boy.  Its done.  If your local I offer $700 for the carcass.  If you remove the intake manifold you may very well find a window into the block.

[Max Capacity]

I guess you have figured that this will cost you about $3000 or more to do.

Do you have a trusted auto machine shop close to you ? If so, talk with them, as I'm sure they will have some thought's on cost for cleaning and machining.

You'll want to have JMP6889928 rebuild the turbo.

You'll need new oil pump and oil cooler.

I guess the car has very little rust in/on it ?

Will you need a new clutch set up or is it a 5eat ?

Last Summer, I had to replace the OEM oil pan because it rusted and began to leak about halfway up the pan.

Make a list of what it's going to cost you...then decide if it's worth it. I had my own engine hoist and stand, so that's another cost to rent if you don't own one. Don't forget to add the cost of fluids and oil filters.

 

[Enlight]

Subbed, haha.

Also worth considering is how much time do you have. Do you have another car you can daily?

In addition to what @Max Capacity said, you will also need new AVCS Camshaft sprockets and VVT solenoids, as there are certain to be metal debris stuck in there. If you look at my post here, you can see the line items Prime Motoring recommends for a rebuild (includes everything mentioned).

Welcome.

[emosley210]

Thanks for the advice!

I’ve pretty much planned on this being $3000-$4000 based off of everything I’ve read. I know I’ll need to replace the whole oil system but I just haven’t put all of the numbers down on paper. Probably put everything into a list this week.

I’ve been putting out feelers for a good machine shop to go to around me and was gonna make some calls or visits this week as well. 

I don’t have the 5eat so will I need a new clutch? The current one is less than a year old I’m pretty sure but I didn’t know if that’s just something that has to be replaced.

All in all the car is in pretty solid shape (minus the engine) with a decent amount of off-road mods and some engine mods, so I feel like it’s worth saving. I have a surprising amount of time on my hands as of lately and another truck to daily with.

Thanks for the advice, I’ll check out the links and reach out to JMP6889928 and keep you guys updated if I go through with it.

[m sprank]

Um....  expect $6k for the engine alone.  Add another $1k for turbo.  If there is a picture window in your block, add more.   I would budget $8k for a complete long block and turbo rebuild (parts and labor).  Best of luck to you.

[Max Capacity]

You can still get a ej257 shortblock and gasket set for $2300. https://parts.subaruonlineparts.com/v-2019-subaru-wrx-sti--limited--2-5l-h4-gas/engine--engine

If you come to that need.

[kzr750r1]

JMP convinced me to not run a filter line on my last build. All of the other suggestions are solid. Recovering from killing a motor is never a good position to be in.

Everyone has different motivation. 8K is not a low ball. Especially now as prices have gone up on labor and parts.

But if you really love the car it will be worth every penny. 

[emosley210]

Alright, time for an update.

Tore everything down to the short block. Pulled the valves on the heads. So far nothing looks horrible. No bent valves, no cracks anywhere, there is some scoring on the cam journals and cams though. I’ve basically seen 2 trains of thought on the matter. Either the heads and cams are fine and some light scoring wont affect it much (basically just an extra oil passage… right), or they’re both toast. I have a machine shop lined up that I’m going to take them to and get their opinion but I’d take any input. 

The timing looked like it did skip a tooth. Didn’t get any pictures of it before I pulled the belt but it was off by a bit and one of the timing guides on the rear cover had cracked. 

I’m planning on splitting the short block too just to look in there and see what all happened. I figure the bearings in there are probably shot but I wanted to ask you guys if its possible or even a reasonable idea to get the block halves cleaned up, replace the bearings and maybe the crank (depending on how things look) and use the same block. Cutting out over 2k for a new short block would be pretty rad but if it’s gonna give me more problems down the road I’ll just bite the bullet.

Other than that I’m still just diagnosing I guess. Haven’t made a move to order any parts yet but I’ve got a running list of what all I want going back into it. Been a fun project so far just to get this far into everything. It definitely helps not being on any sort of time crunch and still having something to daily. Oh, totally didn’t label any hoses or anything either. Bolt organization is great but the hose game is gonna be more of a figure it out when I get there situation.

[emosley210]

Also, I talked to JMP about the turbo and basically he’s no longer able to fully rebuild BNR turbos. He said that if I can guarantee there’s no side play in the shaft he can rebuild it and make sure there’s no shrapnel inside but other than that he no longer has access to the custom center bearing support housing for these.

There is a little bit of play in the shaft. Not so much that it’s binding or hitting anything but enough to where I don’t want to send it off just to find out it’s still shot. I haven’t looked around for anyone that rebuilds BNR’s yet. Anybody have any recs? Otherwise I’m thinking of just going with a VF52.

[KZJonny]

Silly suggestion, but have you asked if BNR will rebuild it?

JMP is awesome, and my Custom VF40 is great, so by all means buy one of his VF52s if you can! You would not regret it.

[kzr750r1]

Try giving Brian a shout?

Always good to have options.

As for the internals. Yeah there is cam journal wear. But not awful.

Looks like it's time to crack open the block and see what else may have failed to give you the glitter.

Keep in mind you will need to replace several items and you may have debris in the cam gears. OCV should just be replaced.

Last round I chose not to reuse my old cam gears. Just in case opening them up and cleaning them would be the downfall of a new motor build.

[emosley210]

3 hours ago, kzr750r1 said:

Keep in mind you will need to replace several items and you may have debris in the cam gears. OCV should just be replaced.

Yeah, planning on replacing all the parts for the oil system. 

[emosley210]

Got the block cracked open, bearings definitely aren’t great but it seems like one tried extra hard to delete itself.

Seems like something knocked around on the edge of the cylinder too.

 

[kzr750r1]

Ooof. Ugly tater chips.

Definitely new Crank, Pistons, Rods would need a full inspection to be sure they hadn't digested any debris and went out of round on the piston side.

Edited May 31, 2023 by kzr750r1
Expanding comment.

[Max Capacity]

Just guessing, the cost of all those parts will be close to the cost of a new ej257 shortblock, plus the labor to rebuild. That's why it's cheaper for most to just buy the ej257 and engine gasket set for your year car like I did. That engine was still running great some 154,000 miles later, tuned at 21psi with vf52 when I sold it.

[emosley210]

7 minutes ago, Max Capacity said:

Just guessing, the cost of all those parts will be close to the cost of a new ej257 shortblock, plus the labor to rebuild. That's why it's cheaper for most to just buy the ej257 and engine gasket set for your year car like I did. That engine was still running great some 154,000 miles later, tuned at 21psi with vf52 when I sold it.

Yeah I started doing the numbers and figured it’d be about the same cost plus a lot less headache to just get e new short block. 
Luckily a friend of mine gets 15% parts from the dealer here so I’m gonna have him start putting in some orders for me pretty soon.

[m sprank]

My original estimate seems fair at this point.  Maybe even low with performing most of the labor yourself. 

Crank, rods, bearings, pistons, oil cooler, water pump, complete timing kit, complete engine gasket set.  Inspect block halves, if can re-use - clean up, bore and hone with torque plates. 

Inspect heads and cams. If can re-use - clean up/polish, valve job, replace seals, set lash, replace intake cam avcs gears.  Possibly time for new valve springs.  Check your crank pulley, might be time to replace. 

Turbo.

I am probably forgetting a few things. Late night.

Sorry for your loss.

[emosley210]

Dropped the heads off at the machine shop yesterday too. I figured I might as well freshen up the valves while they’re getting done so I’ve got some GSC valves coming next week that I’ll drop off with them. 
Is there any reason to replace valve springs while I’m at it? I’m not going with a different cam and the stock springs in there seemed fine so I couldn’t really find any reason for it. 

[m sprank]

If the engine has 100k on it, yes new springs are a good invesrment for the cost.  They fatigue over time.  

 

A new block might be cheaper than re-building your current.  Replace everything in the oil flow path (ocv can be easily cleaned and re-used if good).  CLEAN the pan and pick up.  You would be amazed at what get caught in the nooks and crannies. Engine/turbo gonna run about the cars value.  Make sure you build her to keep and get your monies worth.

[emosley210]

4 minutes ago, m sprank said:

 

My original estimate seems fair at this point.  Maybe even low with performing most of the labor yourself. 

 

Yeah I’ve got 2 different columns for parts in my spreadsheet right now. Wants and needs. Both are at least upwards of 6k. 
Not even bothering with reusing the block. Just shopping around right now for the best deals I can find on things. 
 

It is a bummer but I’m not too broken up about it. It gives me a chance to build it how I want in one go rather than changing things out here and there while everything is still in the car. Plus it’s been a good learning experience. Just need to figure out what I want to do for the turbo still…

[Max Capacity]

FWIW, My heads didn't need anything new when they were rebuilt at 154,000 miles in late April 2012, Again, those heads on the ej257 still ran great when the car had 306,000 miles. 

 

See my click here link in my sig.

[emosley210]

Alright I’m back. Was out of town for a good while at the end of last year and also didn’t have my heads done until almost the end of November.

Heads are back, got a shiny new short block on the stand, and a table full of parts. I got the heads on with some ARP head studs and did valve lash the other week. I’ve got some new buckets that show up on Monday and then I’m finally gonna start diving into everything next week. 

For now I’ve got a new turbo wheel from BNR that I’m gonna put in this weekend. 
 

 

[kzr750r1]

Well done. I know the feeling all too well. Forking over this kind of money is no fun.

Just a tip from recent experience.

Get a Fluidampner. Stat. PN: 531101

Worth every penny.

[KZJonny]

7 minutes ago, kzr750r1 said:

Well done. I know the feeling all too well. Forking over this kind of money is no fun.

Just a tip from recent experience.

Get a Fluidampner. Stat. PN: 531101

Worth every penny.

+1

Your already spending bulk money. Why not? It IS awesome.