another one bites the dust...

[laz]

Is just like when you see an accident and stop just to look and see what has happened. I mark it down as human nature; just curiosity of wanting to know.

 

Just a coupl of days ago I stopped and got out of my car to check out an accident between a SRT-4 and a Honda Civic. It looked like both cars were totalled. Why did I stop? Half to see what had happened, and half to see how it happened so that I am more aware next time I go over that intersection.

 

First thing that came to mind was that the kid in the SRT-4 was at fault, but I will never know without reading the accindent report. Many people die everyday of accidents everywhere, and the city just seems to be more prone to it. Why are we so curious? Who knows? But if I was to send flowers to anyone and everyone that die of a car accident here in the city, I would go broke real quick.

 

Take it as you wish, but we will always be curious, it is just human nature, and it can happen to anyone of us any moment.

 

X

[The B4]

Update found this http://www.downtownexpress.com/de_136/policeblotter.html

 

Fatal Canal St. accident

One man died and another was injured at 8:06 p.m. Saturday, Dec. 10 when a car coming off the Manhattan Bridge skidded on an ice patch, plowed into a cab and then struck two pedestrians at the notoriously dangerous intersection of Bowery and Canal St.

 

Police said Wad Lin Ya, 42, was crossing the street when the car ran him over. He was declared dead at Bellevue Hospital and another Asian man, 52, not otherwise identified by police, was taken to Bellevue in stable condition.

 

The incident was deemed an accident and the driver, Brian Leaver, of Saugerties, N.Y., was not charged.

 

 

A Transportation Alternatives study of pedestrian-auto accidents during the three-year period 1999-2001 showed two deaths and 14 injury accidents during the study period at the Canal St./Bowery ramp at the Manhattan Bridge.

 

The Lower Manhattan Development Corporation and the city are planning to make pedestrian safety improvements.

 

Thank you for finding this...The banter about how this young 21 y/o racing with his ____ and his ____ on his car...and he had to be going ____ fast, REALLY pisses me off. All of the weekend phorensic investigators on this forum should get a life.

[rony]

It sad really, to be speculating on something that we don't have all the facts on. I for one, didn't forsee a conclusion until the investigation was done. Accidents happen, even to safe drivers.

[malfeas99]

Granted, I would not be able to see the Cobb AP (unless the driver's door was ripped open a little further) or the UP/DP, but painting the calipers red? on a silver car? I put those in the same category as "got NOs?" stickers on 95ish cavalier - not good for much except making adolescents feel their cars are faster.

 

If I'm not mistaken, all the calipers on all colors of '06 WRX's are painted red and have a 'Subaru' logo from the factory.

 

I'm not sure I'd put it in the same category as 'got NOS'.

 

Are gold brembos the same as 'got NOS' stickers? Or is it okay because they came from the factory that way?

 

A 'ricer', in my opinion, is someone who does things to their cars in an attempt to make them look faster, or think the mods make the car faster than they really do, but rarely get any real performance gains from it, and sometimes (say, in the case of huge spoilers) actually detract from the performance.

 

Some guy painting the rear drums of his '92 civic might be ricing... but you'd have to do an awful lot to an otherwise fast, fairly expensive car, to really 'rice' it out.

 

Anyways, that's sort of tangential to this thread anyways, I'll just leave it at that.

[CrakuhBlack]

...he must have been driving much faster than the posted speed limit...much faster than the common sense speed limit. This is what happenes when you give high horsepower cars to youngsters that are full of hormones and wanna show off. At 21, you should be driving a Ford Taurus category car - safe but not particularly fast - and certainly NOT some awd rocket which in almost any - even ideal - circumstances, has more horsepower than stopping and controlling ability.

Quite possibly the most asinine comment you could have made. I am sure there are plenty of 21 year olds on this board that could not only smoke your ass on a racetrack, but drive more safely and with more control than you on public roads....me included. As for "giving a 21 yr old a high horsepower car", I bet you most of the 21 yr olds on this board bought their car on their own (I did)....jerk. If all you're going to do is stereotype and talk badly about people, just go back to your books Mr. "Academia".

On another note, lets say this "youngster who is full of hormones and wants to show off" was doing 40mph. Unless I am mistaken, firehydrants are in the ground pretty solidly. I would imagine one could F up someone's left front fender, suspension, wheel and so on as seen in the pics. As for the car flipping, its pretty impressive he could pull that off without even scratching the hood or the roof. Maybe he was going 180mph and did a full rotation in the air....at least that would be consistent with the immature 21 yr old racing down the "dragstrip" theory.

Sorry for hostile post, I just hate constantly reading how 21 yr olds like myself are immature, unskilled, careless, yada yada yada....

[Bici OBXT]

^^...well said my friend.

[Windex]

Quite possibly the most asinine comment you could have made. I am sure there are plenty of 21 year olds on this board that could not only smoke your ass on a racetrack, but drive more safely and with more control than you on public roads....me included. As for "giving a 21 yr old a high horsepower car", I bet you most of the 21 yr olds on this board bought their car on their own (I did)....jerk. If all you're going to do is stereotype and talk badly about people, just go back to your books Mr. "Academia".

 

On another note, lets say this "youngster who is full of hormones and wants to show off" was doing 40mph. Unless I am mistaken, firehydrants are in the ground pretty solidly. I would imagine one could F up someone's left front fender, suspension, wheel and so on as seen in the pics. As for the car flipping, its pretty impressive he could pull that off without even scratching the hood or the roof. Maybe he was going 180mph and did a full rotation in the air....at least that would be consistent with the immature 21 yr old racing down the "dragstrip" theory.

 

Sorry for hostile post, I just hate constantly reading how 21 yr olds like myself are immature, unskilled, careless, yada yada yada....

 

Obviously not all 21 year olds are careless, unskilled etc... To group them all in the same category is inaccurate. However, there are a statistically significant number of younger males who make "errors in judgement" when operating an automobile. Ask any insurance company.

 

As well, like it or not, young males are affected by Horomones. Last time I checked, your two boys produce testosterone whether you like it or not. You can flame me all you want, but you and I both know that "rush" you feel when matting the accelererator in your GT is caused in part by t-tone, part by endorphins.

 

As far as whether this particular male was speeding, nothing anyone here can say will convince me otherwise, given the damage to the car. I have worked in a dealership environment for over a decade, and been witness to many a crumpled car. Damage like that does not happen at 40mph. Period.

 

Whether the young-guy-showing-off assumption was a factor, we cannot show causation.

 

From experience, I sure as heck see correlation.

 

Are gold brembos the same as 'got NOS' stickers? Or is it okay because they came from the factory that way?

 

Some guy painting the rear drums of his '92 civic might be ricing... but you'd have to do an awful lot to an otherwise fast, fairly expensive car, to really 'rice' it out.

 

No, absolutely not. I would love a set of Brembo's, stainless lines, etc. Brembo's are a sensible, well though-out mod which requires thought, effort, and expense. Spray-painting calipers is a cheap, no-effort mod in the same vein as the aforementioned stickers, cheap aluminum wings etc... Just because the guy started with a Leg GT instead of a civic, doesn't automatically elevate him to a higher class. Heck, I saw an NSX a while back with a cheap-a$$ alumnum wing bolted on top of the factory wing. Higher-end cars are no more immune from ricing than civics or cavaliers.

 

Repeating from above, my sincerest condolences to the families involved. If the driver did commit an error in judgement, his concience will remind him of it for some time to come.

[waterdish]

Windex, let me have your leggy, I promise I could do that damage at 40 MPH

[emorphien]

Windex, let me have your leggy, I promise I could do that damage at 40 MPH

Windex just doesn't like the youngins

[nned4spd]

I bet stability control (VDC on the B9) would have helped

 

If I were the attorney for him, that is what I would be saying to SOA and others.

 

Should have never happend.

 

My dad, many years ago was a pedestrian hit by a 21 year old on a Manhattan street, threw him about 10 feet, good thing a undercover cop was there as the kid tried to ditch the scene.

 

Very sorry for all involved.

[The B4]

It's very funny how on my lunch yesterday... A C230 Driven by a Dude atleast in his 40's and another dude of similar age in the passenger seat, tried to race me on my lunch yesterday. He "launched" his car and almost rearended a moving van in front of him as traffic abruptly came to a complete stop.

 

I thought about this thread and had a nice smirk on my face.

[Windex]

Aw heck, I don't dislike the Young'uns, I'd have to hate myself if that were the case (mmmm... self loathing...)

 

Anyhoo, CrakUhBlack and Bici are (from their posts) likely intelligent, responsible, young(compared to me) men who are saddled with unfairly high insurance rates thanks to some of their peers who have made bad automotive driving decisions in the past.

 

Rightly so. I Had crappy insurance rates when I was that age, even though my driving record was spotless, and hated every minute of it.

 

The only thing I have issues with are cheap ricey mods which do nothing for the car except try to impress other "younger males". Like many insurance companies, I have seen a disproportionately high number of wrecked cars, driven by younger males, with the aforementioned paint/stickers/wings etc.. -as compared to all the wrecked cars I have had the pleasure of dealing with.

 

If you have a sweet ride, let others know by kicking their a$$ across an intersection or at an autocross event. Not via spraypaint or stickers.

 

Cheers

[emorphien]

The only thing I have issues with are cheap ricey mods

Never much cared for those myself either

[CrakuhBlack]

Anyhoo, CrakUhBlack and Bici are (from their posts) likely intelligent, responsible, young(compared to me) men

 

Rightly so. I Had crappy insurance rates when I was that age, even though my driving record was spotless, and hated every minute of it.

For the record, I am intelligent, responsible, young and yes, my driving record is spotless. Just because you "hated every minute" of your early adulthood doesn't mean you need to come on here and have a midlife crisis. You know nothing about any of the 21 year olds you're speaking to and to lump us all together in one group makes you sould like a sour old man. I was simply making the point that people should not make comments like the one I referred to in my original post. For every 21 year old that has done something stipud, I'm sure there are many more who havn't.

 

If you have a sweet ride, let others know by kicking their a$$ across an intersection...

Now, speaking of intelligence, are you suggesting racing on the street is a good idea? An intersection in particular is probably the worst place to race. See, you're giving 21 yr olds a hard time when you, probably a 40 something, are out racing through intersections. mmmmhhhhmmm, im the irresponsible one...right

 

Oh, and im sure that if the driver of the silver legacy had this mindset the poor pedestrian would have lived. Thanks for the good advice. Quick, everyone to the nearest intersection; aim for the pedestrians!!!

[CrakuhBlack]

Don't worry, that was the last from me. Btw, I never disagreed with the fact that there are many irresponsible 21 yr olds. I agree with this.

[Windex]

For the record, I am intelligent, responsible, young and yes, my driving record is spotless. Just because you "hated every minute" of your early adulthood doesn't mean you need to come on here and have a midlife crisis. You know nothing about any of the 21 year olds you're speaking to and to lump us all together in one group makes you sould like a sour old man. I was simply making the point that people should not make comments like the one I referred to in my original post. For every 21 year old that has done something stipud, I'm sure there are many more who havn't.

 

 

Now, speaking of intelligence, are you suggesting racing on the street is a good idea? An intersection in particular is probably the worst place to race. See, you're giving 21 yr olds a hard time when you, probably a 40 something, are out racing through intersections. mmmmhhhhmmm, im the irresponsible one...right

 

Oh, and im sure that if the driver of the silver legacy had this mindset the poor pedestrian would have lived. Thanks for the good advice. Quick, everyone to the nearest intersection; aim for the pedestrians!!!

 

- whoa Nelly- I was agreeing with you...

 

I didn't hate my early adulthood, I rather enjoyed it. As for the midlife crisis, that's debatable.

 

For the record, I'm 36 (you could have checked that - it's in my CP) and far from sour.

 

Please don't take my comments out of context by quoting selective parts. I don't advocate "street racing" as you put it, nor aiming for innocent pedestrians. There have been numerous posts about being the first across an intersection in this forum, and I don't recall seeing the same flames for them... Theres a big difference between surprising a mustang at a light and the fast and furious driving you seem to think I'm advocating - far from it.

 

It's the holidays. Let's all have a beer and relax... (in case anyone was wondering, no driving after said beer - that would be irresponsible )

 

Peace-out

[BDII]

Don't worry, that was the last from me. Btw, I never disagreed with the fact that there are many irresponsible 21 yr olds. I agree with this.

 

All the Insurance companies in America agree with you. People drive stupidly at all ages, its driver experience that keeps the older folk out of trouble, somtimes...

[BLACKNYGT]

First off my condolences go out to everyone involved. I would like to point out the fact that you can flip a Legacy at 40 or 45 mph. I would know because I did it about 2 1/2 years ago. I drove through that very same intersection 2 days ago. One thing that nobody has talked about are the witnesses. That is an extremely busy intersection at any time of the day let alone 8:00 at night. If the driver was speeding or doing something stupid than the police would have found out from the witnesses of the accident. Obviously after talking to the witnesses and having accident investigators go through the scene the police made the decision not to charge him with a crime or even write him a ticket. For all that anybody on this site knows he did a fine job at avoiding an even bigger accident with multiple fatalities. That intersection has hundreds of people in it at all times and the driver may have made a decision to avoid a much more serious scenario. None of us will ever know what truely happened unless we see the police report.

 

As for the driver being 21, I know what it is like to have one of these cars and be a young driver that tends to drive a little agressive. These cars are a lot of fun and can certainly get you into trouble if you are not careful. I also have seen young drivers do some of the most impresive things I have ever seen behind the wheel of a car. I might not make the best decisions sometimes but neither do some of the guys on this forum in their 30s and 40s. If the police didn't find any reason to charge him or write him any tickets then I think that we too should give the driver the benefit of the doubt. He is obviously not as stupid as people are making him out to be he did buy a Legacy GT Limited didn't he?

[malfeas99]

No, absolutely not. I would love a set of Brembo's, stainless lines, etc. Brembo's are a sensible, well though-out mod which requires thought, effort, and expense. Spray-painting calipers is a cheap, no-effort mod in the same vein as the aforementioned stickers, cheap aluminum wings etc... Just because the guy started with a Leg GT instead of a civic, doesn't automatically elevate him to a higher class. Heck, I saw an NSX a while back with a cheap-a$$ alumnum wing bolted on top of the factory wing. Higher-end cars are no more immune from ricing than civics or cavaliers.

 

So a low-effort, fairly inexpensive expense that improves an owner's aesthetic appreciation for his vehicle and even duplicates similar aesthetics provided on later-model cars from the same manufacturer is 'ricing'?

 

Creating a mesh grille for the front of your car is 'ricing' it too? Hell, maybe putting more than one coat of wax on your car is 'ricing' in your opinion, because it makes the car look nicer, is fairly inexpensive, and relatively low-effort, but doesn't make the car faster or handle better.

 

Look, I'm with you that any car can be riced out. I am not with you when you say that some painted calipers and a mesh grille constitute 'rice' in the case of the LGT. That's all.

[Windex]

Heh, into the rice debate we go. Perhaps this is fodder for a different thread no?

 

Rice (and what constitutes it) is obviously a matter of personal opinion, and will vary from person to person, make to make, etc...

 

Examples of Rice IMHO:

 

- painted calipers (you already knew that) on stock, cast iron calipers

- cheap aluminum wings, expecially those not painted body colour

- "Tiburon" rear wings on anything but a tiburon (even then they are questionable)

- any "shopping cart" wing, except on an STI, cause the STI came with it, and I want one.

- ill fitting body kits -or-

- body kits that fit on cars with no performance mods to go with them -or-

- any body kit held on by visible rivets - bonus if it's made of lawn edging.

- dual exhaust on an echo, or other base econo-box. Extra ricey points if only one side actually works

- non-functional hood scoops, heck non-functional anything.

- cars lowered by cutting springs, with no regard for actual camber settings or cornering ability

- Huge rims on an otherwise economy car, with no other performance mods, bonus rice points if the rims make the brakes look tiny in comparison, super extra bonus points if the wheel offset is visibly way off

- emblems from a performance version of a car, placed on the base version of the same car (IE, STI emblem on a Legacy 2.5i, or a Type-R emblem on a civic DX)

- Stickers for performance mods which are not on the car. bonus rice-points if you mis-match - IE, TRD on a Honda, VTEC on a toyota etc.

- Stickers in excess (stripes, lightning bolts, Anime characters, whatever)

- Big Phat 4" tail pipe on an otherwise bland car - bonus for non-functioning duals (see above)

- removing the driver's side wiper and using only the passenger side for that coveted "rally" look

- purple window tint in conjunction with any of the above mods. By itself just makes you look like a hillbilly

 

 

You'll notice that mesh grilles on LGT's aren't on the list. I think making an already sweet ride "your own" by making it distinct is great. Debadging is also high on my cool-o-meter, on an LGT. However, the same would be rice (in my book) if done to a civic DX.

 

See? it's a subjective thing...

 

Cheers.

[CrakuhBlack]

- dual exhaust on an echo, or other base econo-box. Extra ricey points if only one side actually works

- non-functional hood scoops, heck non-functional anything.

 

Ok, so what about this...ive seen it twice in my life:

 

1 month ago I'm at walmart getting a plunger (roomate's gf clogged our toilet...stupid, irritating, annoying !*&%$). I see a riced out accord (DARK tint, stickers, some BS rims) and notice an odd looking cut in the rear bumper. Look more closely and notice that this dual exhaust 4cyl has 2 different pipes. I look under the carbon fiber tipped one and sure enough, its not connected to a damn thing. In fact, it was held in place with some metal wire. I bet this mod added like 50hp!!!!

 

2 years ago (this is stuff you never forget) it was the same thing but with a mustang. Looked stock, had the "Mustang" back bumper, but had cobra emblems all around. Funny looking cut in the bumper so I checked it out. Sure enough, fake exhaust.

 

What the heck are people thinking when they do this???

[Windex]

Same thing here, about a month ago.

 

I stopped to get a coffee, and when I came out, there was a gold colored echo there with a wing (unpainted aluminum, must have blocked the whole rear window), tint, fatty duals, 15" mags, TRD stickers everywhere, and the base unpainted bumpers.

 

I couldn't help my self, and just burst out laughing right there.

 

At the exact same time, the parking lights on the echo flashed, and the alarm chirped, and here comes the owner, also with a coffee.

 

I tried to turn, but I'm sure he saw me laughing at his car.

 

The look on his face was priceless...

[CrakuhBlack]

^^ass...hahaha (I've been caught doing the same thing)

[red beast]

take it from a older person

 

 

SHIT HAPPENS

[TDC Tuning]

yeah

accidents happen

all the time

i lost a mother in law in one on teh 5th

and damn near lost my daughter and GF today