Motorbreath's "The Hard Way" 2010 2.5GT Restore and Build

[Scubaboo]

Good it's back on the road and running well!

If you are looking to reduce shudder, I would suggest putting in OE mounts.  I have never had luck with aftermarket except with euro vehicles where many OEMs also make the aftermarket parts.

I would also look into doing motor mounts at the same time.  Take a look, if the engine arms are sitting on the mount body, it's time.  The arms should be floating a bit above the motor mount body.

I did my mounts when I felt a bit of shudder shifting into reverse.  First thing I saw looking underneath was the trans mount and was going to change just that at first, but double checked motor mounts and saw the engine arms on the mount body so replaced those too.  New mounts lifted the arms up as I suspected.

 

[motorbreath]

9 hours ago, Scubaboo said:

I would also look into doing motor mounts at the same time.  Take a look, if the engine arms are sitting on the mount body, it's time.  The arms should be floating a bit above the motor mount body.

 

I really didn't know how to check the condition of my motor mounts, so thanks for this info. I'll get under the car next weekend and take a look. On Friday I was in 4th gear WOT and lost power with the dash flashing. Thought it was a misfire, but the only code that came up was,

P0108 - MAP Pressure Circuit High Input

My understanding is that I should check for leaks in the intake before replacing the MAP sensor, or that I overboosted.

[Scubaboo]

I reviewed my service records and pics, now I remember that back then I replaced all the mounts including the pitch stop.  The pitch stop has a little rubber tab that will stick out from the side when it has collapsed. 

Sorry to hear the motor is acting up!  Maybe run the code by your tuner, he might be able to give you an idea on what to check for that?

[Scubaboo]

Here are the the left and right motor mounts. 

 

Notice the engine arms are resting on top of the mount body.  

Here is the new and old mount side by side. Old one has collapsed internally:

The mounts have a rubber pad on top for the arms to rest on if the mount collapses internally.

Here is the old and new pitch stop.  See that little rubber tab sticking out of the old pitch stop?  It gets squeezed out when the mount collapses to serve as a visual indicator that is easy to see from up top.

[DrD123]

32 minutes ago, Scubaboo said:

Here is the old and new pitch stop.  See that little rubber tab sticking out of the old pitch stop?  It gets squeezed out when the mount collapses to serve as a visual indicator that is easy to see from up top.

That is pretty cool - I guess you learn something new every day!  (I know what I am going to go look at this morning!)

[motorbreath]

So I am thankfully moving back to the area that I work in the next few months, ending over 5 years of an almost daily 2 commute (excluding when we had lockdowns). I am selling my hybrid tomorrow and my 5th gen will go back to being my daily driver.

I should get around to the transmission and engine mounts in the next month, along with the clutch damper delete and checking for boost leaks. My MAP readings seem to be a bit wonky when I am near WOT, so I am also going to replace the filter on its inlet. Hopefully I do not need to replace the MAP, but it might be worth it for piece of mind.

[motorbreath]

So I have tried a few WOT runs and the MAP sensor issue seems to have gone away after replacing the MAP sensor filter and associated vacuum lines.

The clutch shudder I have dealt with since getting the ACT HD clutch and single-mass flywheel installed is also gone after removing the clutch damper, I should have done this earlier!

I am going to keep an eye on my PCV valve more frequently, replaced 2 years ago when I bought the car, checked it again and it seems to have failed. I replaced with a new OEM one today as well.

I'll get to the transmission mount this weekend, thinking about what to do with the engine mounts...they are 12 years old so they need to get replaced, but OEM is literally a fortune!

[motorbreath]

On 10/15/2022 at 11:07 PM, Scubaboo said:

If you are looking to reduce shudder, I would suggest putting in OE mounts.  I have never had luck with aftermarket except with euro vehicles where many OEMs also make the aftermarket parts.

I would also look into doing motor mounts at the same time.  Take a look, if the engine arms are sitting on the mount body, it's time.  The arms should be floating a bit above the motor mount body.

I did my mounts when I felt a bit of shudder shifting into reverse.  First thing I saw looking underneath was the trans mount and was going to change just that at first, but double checked motor mounts and saw the engine arms on the mount body so replaced those too.  New mounts lifted the arms up as I suspected.

 

When you replaced the two side mounts, did you remove the engine arms with mounts attached, then replace and reinstall, or was there enough clearance to lift the engine a bit to replace them? The pitch stop looks easy enough (famous last words), along with the passenger side engine mount, but the drivers side looks like it will not be so fun.

Regarding OEM mounts, unless I pick them up in the US, I'll be looking at almost 1000CAD for both mounts and the pitch stop from the dealer. Rock Auto has DEA/Marmon aftermarket version for 300CAD to my door, but I sold my hybrid and this is now my daily driver, so I'll spend the money if I really really need to. Thoughts?

[Scubaboo]

8 hours ago, motorbreath said:

When you replaced the two side mounts, did you remove the engine arms with mounts attached, then replace and reinstall, or was there enough clearance to lift the engine a bit to replace them? The pitch stop looks easy enough (famous last words), along with the passenger side engine mount, but the drivers side looks like it will not be so fun.

Regarding OEM mounts, unless I pick them up in the US, I'll be looking at almost 1000CAD for both mounts and the pitch stop from the dealer. Rock Auto has DEA/Marmon aftermarket version for 300CAD to my door, but I sold my hybrid and this is now my daily driver, so I'll spend the money if I really really need to. Thoughts?

I have no experience with those brands, so I cant say.  In cases like this I check for reviews on that or other stuff they make to see if it's worth a gamble.

I had it done for me for this job, and they did not remove the arms, they jacked up the engine to clear.  They did have a hard time from what I saw, so I cant say its the easiest way to do this.  

 

 

[motorbreath]

I checked online and found mixed reviews, but there were several people who found that aftermarket engine mounts listed as hydraulic were actually just regular solid mounts. I'll go with the OEM mounts, I don't want to do this job twice.

I also found that you can carefully remove the upper stud of the OEM engine mount, making it much easier to remove/install. I'll have to buy a stud remover, but that isn't a big deal.

[motorbreath]

I am procrastinating from doing more important things, I updated the initial posting to reflect that I failed with the twin-scroll kit and finished stage 2 with the stock turbo. I also finally got around to plotting the boost curves from the 3rd gear WOT pulls from my e-tune. I logged these pulls for versions 2 through 5, with version 6 being the final version and ShinjiTuned providing an alternate "low" boost version 7 that keeps boost ~18psi from 3500-4500 RPM.

Version 7 is the tune I am currently running, I'll switch back to version 6 once I am ready to get the engine rebuilt some day far far far in the future

[Scubaboo]

If the car is a keeper, I would also not gamble with an unknown brand motor/tranny mount.

I forgot to mention that in many cases I've tried them in other cars, generic mounts had much different characteristics from OEM mounts, usually for the worse.  They were usually much stiffer and transmitted much more vibration, while also not lasting as long.  Worst of both worlds lol!

Saw the plots, nice curve you ended up with, must be a lot more fun to drive!

[motorbreath]

3 hours ago, Scubaboo said:

If the car is a keeper, I would also not gamble with an unknown brand motor/tranny mount.

I already bought a solid transmission mount and Whiteline crossmember pad bushings, so I'll install those this weekend. They are easy to replace later with OEM, if NVM is much worse.

Regarding engine mounts and pitch stop, you're right, it's a keeper so I'll invest in the OEM parts.

After the e-tune it really is a blast to drive, especially on the highway. I do have to be careful with EGTs in 6th while cruising, but other than that it's absolutely a dream to drive.

[Scubaboo]

All coming together nicely.

Nothing wrong with that plan.  Good luck with it!

 

[motorbreath]

I am too busy with work so I had my mechanic friend install the transmission mount and the cross member pads. He also changed the transmission and rear diff fluids with the super special Subaru stuff.

The stock transmission mount was gone, the solid mount feels absolutely great and really firms up the drivetrain. I should have had this done when I had the ACT clutch installed...penny wise pound foolish, I guess!

[ToolTime]

Have you looked into the Hardrace engine mounts?
https://hardraceusa.com/collections/legacy-5th-gen-bm-br

They're a good Australian company, same as OEM but they recast them with nicer stiffer rubber.

Edited April 12, 2023 by ToolTime

[ToolTime]

Anything you see on their Aus site can be ordered from the Hardrace USA rep as well

https://www.hardracesuspension.com.au/parts-finder/subaru/legacy/bm-br-2009-2014/

I myself am very interested in these because mine are rocking a bit too much for my liking and I already did the transmission mount with the Subaru Group N part. I feel like the excess movement is going to strain my newish tranny mount. (it's been about a year)

[motorbreath]

I have not heard of them until now, but if they are decent quality I am definitely interested. My only concern is that if they are solid and not hydraulic, how much additional NVM will make it into the cabin. Does anyone have experience with these? I mainly use my car for around town and long trips with family, so its already a bit rough for them with the 12-13 OEM springs and KYB dampers...

[motorbreath]

They also sell a "brake master cylinder stopper", that seems interesting, my mechanic friend says most Subarus have alot of flex in the brake pedal because of this.

[ToolTime]

On 4/13/2023 at 11:26 AM, motorbreath said:

I have not heard of them until now, but if they are decent quality I am definitely interested. My only concern is that if they are solid and not hydraulic, how much additional NVM will make it into the cabin. Does anyone have experience with these? I mainly use my car for around town and long trips with family, so its already a bit rough for them with the 12-13 OEM springs and KYB dampers...

I haven't seen anyone using their stuff on this forum but other Subie forums say they're decent. Sounds like either you or I will be the firsts. People say the engine mounts are good for street/light track use. I've read their mounts don't add any noticeable NVH. But if you're tracking the car you're probably buying those Kein solid mounts.

On 4/13/2023 at 11:28 AM, motorbreath said:

They also sell a "brake master cylinder stopper", that seems interesting, my mechanic friend says most Subarus have alot of flex in the brake pedal because of this.

I want this too, and it's all such a nice shade of blue. But I'll get to that when I start working on getting into a Brembo swap, either the 4 pot or 6.

Edited April 14, 2023 by ToolTime

[motorbreath]

I went to visit family over the past few days, put a solid additional 1000 miles on the odometer, mainly highway driving with much of it through highways which meander around and over the Appalachians in NY and PA. I got around 26 MPG, which was really surprising! A few observations,

1) Having the Maestro iDatalink (see image) connected to my head unit is really useful, EGTs hovered between 550-650C (1000-1200F) while cruising at highway speeds, but would easily increase to 650-730C (1200-1350F) if I did not downshift when on an incline up a mountain. My understanding is that I want to keep EGT under 800C (1470F) for a variety of reasons, this is my first turbo car and first tuned car, so I am trying to learn all the ins and outs!

2) I still have an occasional but pretty significant shudder when starting in 1st and also when engine breaking. Since the transmission mount was just replaced along with the pads, I am going to replace the pitch stop using an OEM once ASAP. I can get it from the dealer today and this is my DD, so I do not want to wait for aftermarket (although the Hard Race one looks really nice!).

3) The car was performing extremely well until about an hour from home. We stopped for a bathroom break and when crawling through the parking lot the car threw up two codes, misfires in cylinders 3 and 4. I didn't notice any issues so I just kept driving for a bit until there was a nice place to pull over in case I needed a tow. I reset the codes and then tried to start the car again, but it took a few tries. When you reset the misfire codes P0303/P0304 does it reset the idle learn? For the next few hours I had issues with the car stalling while idling and poor throttle response at low RPM, otherwise fine.

I am hoping I just need a throttle body cleaning and its nothing serious...just got the car in order!

[Infosecdad]

If the code reset is a full ECU reset, then yes it would impact the idle.

If you do it again, just do the ECU reset, turn off all the accessories/climate/lights/etc and just idle for 7-8 min and you should be good to go.

[FLlegacy]

When I clear codes/ecu reset I turn the key on wait a minute or so let the throttle rehome and adjust, then start it up and let it idle for a few minutes to set all the throttle parameters before driving. 

[motorbreath]

So I was doing some logging to make sure my engine is still running well after about 5k on the new tune. I noticed that I get some random misfire events here and there, sometimes during idle, deceleration, and rarely under load. After reading about how misfires are detected, I suspect it's a combination of older cam position sensors and the lightweight ACT flywheel. I haven't had a knock event in years, so I'm not too concerned... Should I be?

The other thing I noticed is that my reduced boost tune maxes out at 21psi around 4000rpm. The higher boost tune maxes out at 23psi... should I stick with the former for engine longevity? It's way over 18psi so either way I think I'm playing with fire...

[motorbreath]

I just replaced the fuel filter and fuel pump, the original was working but had 120k and 13 years on the clock. After driving to fill up the gas tank, I immediately noticed an improvement at low throttle and deceleration. The engine seems a bit smoother, less choppy transitioning between the two.

No difference at WOT...still fun as hell!