Max Capacity Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 From what I learned from members they have had EFI and Bren Tuning dyno there cars and do the MAP. Once they have Mike do a street tune, they were impressed by how smooth the car was after. I will say my wagon feels like a NA car, its so smooth as I push on the loud pedal. Now that was years ago, may be EFI and Bren have figured out how to do progressive throttle and boost. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 Mike? Which etuner is this? Tuning alliance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 Yes. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 Ki***an? Don't want to drop names! He's the guy that gave me this base tune which isn't working right now...... I just sent him an email. Its confusing, I was going to go tuning alliance route, but then he tole me the dyno is MA, but they are in CT.... either way, I'm not driving to MA to do a dyno when I can get it done within 50 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 There was a time in the past few years where he would use EFI's dyno and a few others around the area. But yes ESP dyno is Sterling MA is where he has been for many years. My wagon was done there for the vf52 in 2010. If the tune didn't work there must be some miss-communication somewhere. Mike is that good with these cars. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 Good thing you reminded me, just tossed him an email, maybe he can get me a better base tune to get me by or etune. I sure as hell am not driving to MA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilredwagon Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 I thought E-tuners didn't like open source because they couldn't lock their tunes. So they were worried about customers sharing their 'trade secrets'. But AP tunes are locked. If you were to get the diy version of AP, you would have to build a tune from scratch, or from the stock rom, and manipulate it from there. You couldn't just hack into a tuner-made map. That was my understanding from a long time ago, things may have changed since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infosecdad Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 I thought E-tuners didn't like open source because they couldn't lock their tunes. So they were worried about customers sharing their 'trade secrets'. But AP tunes are locked. If you were to get the diy version of AP' date=' you would have to build a tune from scratch, or from the stock rom, and manipulate it from there. You couldn't just hack into a tuner-made map. That was my understanding from a long time ago, things may have changed since.[/quote'] That is probably part of it for some tuners. I suspect it’s also the level of support and time needed for many clients is much higher in many cases. They end up troubleshooting computer problems, software issues, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlock Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 I always laughed at the idea of "locking" tunes, especially on heavily modified cars (I use to see thsi ALL THE TIME on evo 8 and 9s, before flashing the car they would load the rom into a HEX editor like HxD and change the ROM ID by 1 character. Anyone could load the rom from the ecu with ECUflash but once it had pulled it from the ecu, it came up as an unknown rom and would appear to be encrypted. You could either simply load the rom back into HxD edit and change the bit back to correct OR just simply take the calID from the rom you pulled and edit the name of the XML in your definitions folder to match and reload ecuflash). Yeah I get maybe trying to hide a common tune like "stock + K&N intake" because that is a VERY common first mod for cars, but even then its locked to that exact car (example, will only work on a 2012 WRX, not an sti or legacy or ANY other car/year combo). Sure, the person could go into the tune and steal the MAF scaling tables and injector latency/scaling data and transfer it to another cars tune, but that that point, so what? There are DOZENS of free tunes posted on forums such as romraider that you can do the same thing to, so essentially you ARE getting your own tune at that point. Fact of the matter is, there is no secret sauce or special technique that one tuner uses to make a car better than another. The tuner either does a good job or doesn't fully understand what they should be doing. I love high performance academy's motto: Tuning isnt magic, its science. There is a correct calibration that makes the car run at peak reliability and performance. Any deviation from that is just not a 100% correct tune. And lets be honest, no one ever gets it 100% on the dot. Even from the factory there is a decent margin for variation and error. Thats why closed loop systems exist, to make changes on the fly to correct for the things your cant nail 100% because of interpolation. Also I am not saying that a tuner cant do SOME things to make his calibration "feel" better like better smoothing of throttle on drive by wire cars and SI drive. But that comes down to preference of the driver, what I may enjoy for throttle response may drive you crazy. TLDR: Fact of the matter is locking the ECU is silly as each tune SHOULD be calibrated for the car its being installed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpecDubC Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 I'll say I got a cobb AP just for convenience and because tuners like the convenience too. As Max stated above regarding training people. I think it may automate some of the process for them also. As far as tactrix is concerned I will second that statement as far as if you have multiple cars. There whole marrying an accessport to a car thing is an obvious money grab by Cobb as they want you to buy more hardware. It's not something I want mounted to my dash all the time and I'll say for non flashing related things for diagnostics and logging if you want I will say I started out with a VAGCOM KKL cable and freeSSM on an old laptop. Tactrix does one better and works out the box with ECU Flash and ROMRaider if you're looking to do some more advanced stuff like modify the ECU hex file or whatever and stuff I don't really want to experiment with even though I'm good with "tech". Turns out when I swapped an 08 Spec B into an 08 GT it didn't really matter that I have a different ROM on the ECU because the transmission swap is mostly just mechanical swap and everything isn't tuned by gear. The only thing I didn't swap is VDC because it would take the whole wiring harness and I don't know if there pinouts would be the same and if I swap ECU then I would have to pay sometime with Subaru Select Montor likely a dealer to fix my VIN readout for sake of emissions etc. That all being said I also bought a USB A to C adapter to go with that VAGCOM KKL cable and Btssm to be able to look up quick diagnostics on my phone without the Bluetooth adapter or an accessport theft magnet in the car. Would eventually be considering the tactrix or a hardware solution of this to a car pc or tablet installed to the cubby location. There's also an idatalink maestro version RR2 kit which makes your factory steering wheel radio control and nav stuff work with an aftermarket head unit plus some added things like visual gauges and radar detector display. All things considered each have their place but I could see the tactrix being more useful if you're doing some advanced stuff or have multiple Subarus you want to flash with standard off the shelf maps or open source it becomes even more cost effective. I just ate the cost of the Cobb as a necessary tool for an in person dyno'd protune I will eventually be getting. The others definitely help if you're working on other cars. Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Is this new? Access tuner race used to be free and didn’t require any course. access tuner pro no longer exists. taking the online university for $140-170$ lets you look at some data and load a tune. if you want to "make" a tune, you need a dyno and a storefront. That may have changed, however, that's what I was told last year. nsfw and others have been updating tactrix, so flex fuel and flatfoot shifting exists now. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 Anyone know how to read logs? This is a log of the car starting, idling and then dying. romraiderlog_august18.2_20200818_105317.csv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino6303 Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 Anyone know how to read logs? This is a log of the car starting, idling and then dying. [ATTACH]286444[/ATTACH]See my post in your other thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 Looks like efi is pushing for the accessport.....sigh, fml. 730 for some useless device.... might as well drive to MA to tuning alliance and spend that money on hotels, booze and hookers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 For better clarification they said at my level of modification I would need an ap and open source is only for stage 2 with maybe a few extra parts. I really don't see myself using the ap other than to tune the car, and anything else btssm and torque can handle on my smartphone. 730 is a 1/3 of the cost for the atp turbo I want, it costs 2300. It's the cost of a dyno tune and then some or the price of a new laptop or computer. Just seems like a waste of money to me at this point after thinking about it for a while, and trust me I'm no amateur when it comes to wasting money! Will have to look for more dyno tuners in the nyc metro and tri state area(NY, NJ and CT)... Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted August 19, 2020 Share Posted August 19, 2020 For better clarification they said at my level of modification I would need an ap and open source is only for stage 2 with maybe a few extra parts. I really don't see myself using the ap other than to tune the car, and anything else btssm and torque can handle on my smartphone. 730 is a 1/3 of the cost for the atp turbo I want, it costs 2300. It's the cost of a dyno tune and then some or the price of a new laptop or computer. Just seems like a waste of money to me at this point after thinking about it for a while, and trust me I'm no amateur when it comes to wasting money! Will have to look for more dyno tuners in the nyc metro and tri state area(NY, NJ and CT)... Anyone? you know there are other options? likely at your level, an actual ecu is going to be better. Once you get past boltons, ap is lost in the wilderness too Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 I really don't want to go that route. I pulled the trigger on the ap, paid the deposit. This story needs to end lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted August 19, 2020 Author Share Posted August 19, 2020 Ap has a high resale value, that's what tipped the scale. If it proves to be not worth it or can't get it done then I can sell it off for around the same price I bought it. That and I just want to get it on the road and moving, if that's what the only pro in the area needs to get it done... then I'm pretty much bent over a barrel! I ordered the ap days ago, not long after making this post, as soon as the tuner gave off the "buy the cobb or don't waste my time vibe!" Going to smoke test to make sure everything is correct first before I fiddle with the car anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlock Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Anyone know how to read logs? This is a log of the car starting, idling and then dying. [ATTACH]286444[/ATTACH] So a quick look over of you log..... I noticed you AFR correction is rather large in multiple areas. This either indicates an improperly scaled MAF or wrong injector data. Although I dont think that is the ultimate problem here. What was very weird is is as your car began to lose RPM and lead into the stall, it rapidly shut its throttle angle from 8% where it was happy to 4% and below (as low as 1% open, the car certainly cant idle at this point). This would cause the decrease in RPM leading to a stall condition. Check your drive by wire tables and make sure they are configured properly would be my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m sprank Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Just my worthless $0.02... Most professional tuners I know and have worked with will not use OS. Without getting into the business (it is about making money) side of things I can honestly testify that I have seen OS "glitch" on the dyno and when things would not work properly there is no support. It is beyond frustrating and possibly detrimental to the car. The quality of the Tactrix cables was always an issue as well. I had a stockpile and all of them had re-soldered USB connections on the boards. We stopped offering OS support back in 2013/14 due to the ongoing issues. I am no fan of the business practices used by the conglomerate that owns Cobb. But the AP is a decently solid and supported tuning device. EcuTeK is also a viable and possibly more "powerful" tuning solution as well. As for locking tunes, I wholeheartedly agree with the decisions of professional tuners to lock their tunes. Too many opportunities for something bad to happen and be left to hold the blame when anyone can access the tune. Its less about protecting their work and more about covering their arse. For the right build, customer, package, etc. my tuners would routinely work with/modify/adjust the tune for months if not years for the customer to get the tune as humanely close to 100% correct for that exact car. It was all about the customer and their desires. I was lucky to have two of the best tuners in the nation in house (Bill and Steve) and admit to being a bit spoiled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 Ecutek?? Anyone familiar with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Nice post from "msprank" that explains what I have been trying to convey. As you know,Cobb AP is good product. I only had issue with connection port once and Cobb took care of that quickly. I also don't leave them plugged in, both AP's stay in the box they came in. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tehnation Posted August 20, 2020 Author Share Posted August 20, 2020 I won't lie, this ap is pretty damn simple to use.....everything is straight forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 Yeah, I think they made it for us dummy's... I'm still nervous when ever I have to use it. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chato Posted August 20, 2020 Share Posted August 20, 2020 I just finally pulled the trigger on an AP to go flexfuel after years of tactrix/open source. haven't plugged it in yet, but encouraged by some of the positive reviews here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now