Headlight bulbs

[soares]

Can you prove it? (Hint: See the photometry requirements stated in https://one.nhtsa.gov/DOT/TP-108-13.pdf, page 222, Appendix G, and Appendix I, for a guide to the proper test standards and procedures.) Check back in with us when you've done this.

 

 

 

No I cannot prove it, nor do I care to. What about all the morons driving with their high beams on as if they were low beams? Not trying to argue with you, but for what it’s worth, who really cares? If you feel compelled, Adjust your light positioning via a simple google search and be done with it.

 

 

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[ammcinnis]

Originally posted by soares:

What about all the morons driving with their high beams on as if they were low beams?

I hold them in the same low regard as the "morons" driving around with aftermarket-modified headlights and/or fog lights throwing glare all over the place.

 

... who really cares?

I care ... every time I'm blinded by somebody with more vanity than sense. This goes double for those driving around with headlight color temperatures ranging from ~6000K to near ultraviolet in a vain attempt to look "cool." Other blinded drivers care, too, as do automotive safety experts and lighting engineers who do this for a living, as well as law enforcement ... but I don't expect any of that to change your mind.

[tornichoe]

Have you ever actually heard a story of someone saying “Yea I crashed because his bright ass leds.” It’s more like, that dude is an asshole with those bright lights.

 

The fact that NHTSA even has a report on this from almost 12 years ago, long before HIDs and LEDs were a thing, proves that it is a factor.

 

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.dot.gov/files/glare_congressional_report.pdf

 

If it really wasn't an issue, we'd all be driving with roof mounted light bars throwing light a mile down the road.

[tornichoe]

For risk of being smacked in the face via words, is anyone running 7000k bulbs?... asking for a friend

 

5k-6k is the range you want to be. Its the color temperature of bright day light and provides the best visibility. The lower end of it has a bit of yellow hue and the upper end looks more white. Higher than that actually reduces visibility.

 

https://bestheadlightbulbs.com/best-hid-color-headlight-color-guide/

[nevets27]

Like most things its not black and white if leds/HIDs are going to be causing issues.

 

The problem is most people throw HID/LEDs into any headlight. They see brighter/more light and think, great I can see better done deal. When in reality they are more likely actually blinding themselves more (too much/too bright foreground light) or fooled into thinking there is more light/it's brighter due to the fact that whiter light seems brighter. On top of that the chances you have increased incoming glare or the intensity of the light above the cut off is very high.

 

Now with that being said. There are some cases/headlights where adding in cerian HIDs/LEDs the output of light is actually going to be in the correct locations. That being, little to no increase in foreground lighting and little to no increase in light above the cutoff. If all the light is focused in the correct location its a win win. The driver does actually get to see better without causing harm to other drivers.

 

The problem is the second scenario where it works well is a lot less likely then the first. And requires a lot of research and a decent amount of understanding. Additionally it usually takes trial and error (which burns money), unless you can find proven results for your specific headlights.

 

Additionally it's almost impossible to "review" HIDs/LEDs due to the fact they react very differently in different headlights. There are ones that are better then other, and have a higher likelihood or working well but no guarantee. Conversely, there is poor designs to just steer clear of due to being extremely unlikely to work well in any headlights. So you can increase your chances of success but. Just because you saw or a YouTuber say this brand/model is good won't mean anything unless they tested it in the same headlights as you.

 

The information is out there, there are few good sites (hidplanet being one) and a few good YouTubers.

 

Long and short of it is more often then not throwing a HID/LED into a halogen headlight will blind oncoming drivers much more then anything from factory*. And also often not actually providing any more light and just give you the perception of seeing further which is a detriment to the driver.

 

 

*with the exception of trucks with HIDs from factory, they are constantly blinding people in cars.

 

 

Another thing to keep in mind. Even if you end up with the perfect situation where installing HIDs/LEDs provides better/proper light distribution. It still won't be as good/bright as a proper projector designed for whicher light source it was ment for. Of course the cost and effort of a true retrofit is higher but the end result is better too. No shortcuts in life.

 

To answer a few more things.

 

All cars that have HID's from factory do not necessarily have auto leveling lights. Furthermore a lot (I actually think all) of the auto leveling lights don't level based on road conditions/bumps etc. They only level based on load in the vehicle, which could cause the front of the car to point up. If you look at 4th geb jdm legacy they have a sensor on the back shock to measure how much its compressed, it then adjusts the lights accordingly. But it can't react quick enough to lower the lights over a bump.

 

Now I think some countries mandate that if the vehicle comes with HIDs it must have auto leveling. But I do know a lot of cars in usdm do not have this as its not a law here.

 

As far as people flashing. A lot of people flash cars that come from factory with HIDs. It's due to lack of understanding. Like mentioned above if you hit a bump the incoming driver will get all the light from under the cutoff then it will go dark as they will be above the cut off. To them it looks like they are being flashed. So they decide to flash back. Nothing can be done about this people just have to learn.

 

Secondly, when cresting a hill. The oncoming driver will be under the cut off and exposed to the full brightness of the HID/LEDs. Nothing can be done about this but the incoming driver is going to get a lot of light in their face. And again most drivers will think you left your high beams on and flash you.

 

Now you'll likely notice the people that high beam others will more often then not be in a car with halogen lights. This is because since the light from their headlights is a lot less bright their eyes have to dialate to allow you to see better. When glare from oncoming drivers hits or eyes or worse the full brightness under the cut off, it does blind the driver almost entirely for at least a second. So yes their eyes are more sensitive to light because of that. But what's worse is now the drivers eyes have constricted due to the bright light from the glare/being under the cut off and now with their dim lights can't see a lot, even after you are long gone until there eyes can dialate again. The take away here is if the light intensity is higher above the cut off the more you are making the oncoming drivers not see. Which as long as they are a decent driver will not cause them to drive into you but while you are approaching them and long after you are gone they can't see the road well and could cause them to drive off of it or into something. This of course is compounded by bad weather.

 

For the question of 7000k lights. If you want absolutely useless headlights and to look like a kid that doesn't know what he's doing the I guess have fun. But you will be pissing others off and its extremely obvious that you are running aftermarket HIDs which should get you a ticket but I don't hear about tickets being handed out often. Though you could probably get bluer lights by just using a blue led. BTW, the whole blue/purple light craze comes from people wanting others to think they have a cool high end vehicle, due to the fact that HIDs only came on high end cars when they first came out and have a blue band of light at the cut off, which can be seen by other drivers. Which is true for most/all HIDs but some more than others due to the design have a thicker/more obvious band of blue then others. This is just due to optics and wasn't a style feature manufacturers were doing. Due partly to lack of understanding and being cheap. People put in blue lights so other drivers can think they are driving a fancy car. When realistically it's obvious they have aftermarket blue lights and anyone running those clearly are cheap and uneducated so it has the reverse effect.

 

EDIT, to respond to the above. 4300k is the "brighest" light. There is a reason OEM's/Phillips made their bulbs only 4300k. Yes Philips/osram do actually make 4500k/5000k bulbs for the aftermarket but depending on the model they either put out the same amount of light or very slightly more. But that not due to color it's due to them designing the for more light. A lux meter doesn't care what color the light is.

 

Technically there should never really be a discussion of light color. There are basically only 2 manufacturers of real HID bulbs Philips and osram. The the Phillips 85122 being the bulb used in basically every OEM (that uses D2S bulbs, different part number for the other style of bulbs). Which is a 4300k bulb. If you want the most light and to be "correct" 4300k. If you don't care about how bright the light is and want to look cool pick any color you like.

 

I don't have a 6th gen but if you all want to figure out a good bulb, research, try some out, take proper pictures and if a good bulb can be found that's great. But there is a chance that at least currently there might not be an acceptable bulb replacement. I can comment on the fact that if you just throw a bulb of any kind in a 4th gen, you will be blinding drivers due to the design. No bulb can fix that and it requires work be done to the oem projector.

 

A good website that covers a lot with proper information: http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/tech.html

Two good forums http://www.candlepowerforums.com and https://www.hidplanet.com/forums

 

 

For the record I don't like or suggest anything other then a proper HID retrofit (changing of the projector). But I know not everyone is going to do that, even if they should.

[TwoTone]

That's not an answer to my question, but I'll bite. An adult senselessly trying to hold on to youth and look cool. Did that adequately answer yours?

 

Yes- so you want anything above 8k

[jnrhoads1]

The self leveling feature is to account for increased loads in the trunk/cargo area, not for driving up and down hills. Why would your lights point down when going up a hill? Would that not make it difficult to see?

[ncted]

Who peed in everyone's Cheerios?

[jnrhoads1]

The self leveling feature is to account for increased loads in the trunk/cargo area, not for driving up and down hills. Why would your lights point down when going up a hill? Would that not make it difficult to see?

 

And i guess then it would mean they would point up when going down a hill! :lol:

[gathermewool]

the HID's from the factory (same that I have) have three features that nobody here cares a shit about.

 

1. They self-level, which means as you go over a rise they tilt light output down, which reduces the chance of blinding other drivers exponentially.

2. They don't have a piece of metal in place to bend the HID light output up to

 

Huh?

 

What’re you driving!?

[TwoTone]

1. They self-level, which means as you go over a rise they tilt light output down, which reduces the chance of blinding other drivers exponentially.

 

You apparently don't understand how they work as they would do the exact opposite of what you describe.

 

They are designed to compensate for more load in the rear. There are various ways to do it, but basically as the rear sags, the lights are aimed downward.

 

So if they reacted fast enough, as you crested a hill the headlights would aim upwards as the rear suspension was unloaded.

At the bottom of hills as the suspension was loaded, the headlights would aim downwards.

 

If you're gonna preach at least get it right.

 

Here are my HIDs in our projectors.

 

The cut offs are well defined. Yes there is that small amount of light above the cut off from the squirefinders.

 

We have a ton of hilly roads around here and we did a bunch of testing with her behind me and coming at me. I saw no issues. I can honestly say it's better than anything that comes toward me with LED headlights.

 

The mess below is what is blinding people- HIDs in a reflector.

[15legacy1657616192]

For those suggesting that aftermarket LED’s do not work properly in factory assemblies, take some time to read through information provided from Diode Dynamics for example. This by no means indicated that every manufacturer makes their bulbs in a manner that conform to OEM specifications, but there are plenty of LED conversion options that don’t require a complete retrofit. Specifically, refer to this information:

 

 

Features

 

- Subaru Legacy LED headlight (low beam)

- Correct optical focus for increased output with no added glare

- Perfect H11 fitment, no modification needed

- Designed and validated to OEM lighting standards****

- Engineered and Manufactured in USA

 

 

ALSO:

 

“...confirming that the SL1 bulb shines more light in the hotspot, without adding extra glare on the road.”

 

 

https://www.diodedynamics.com/low-beam-led-headlight-for-2015-2017-subaru-legacy-pair.html

 

 

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[nevets27]

Personally I don't trust or believe anything from a manufacturer. Of course they are going to say they are perfect. What would you expect? I could likely find the same praise on a random China bulb. But with that being said. I also won't pass judgement until the product is tested by people I trust to know what they are doing.

 

With that out of the way. The DD SL1, actually looks to be one of, if not the best option. But if anyone cares to know why or how that conclusion was made. You can read up on that here.

 

https://www.hidplanet.com/forums/forum/general-discussion/leds/1457542-review-dd-sl1-vs-vleds-micro-evolution/page2

 

And here

 

https://www.hidplanet.com/forums/forum/general-discussion/leds/1455298-diode-dynamics-sl1-vs-beamtech-h11-lowbeam-comparison

 

 

As far as no adjustments needed "they're perfect"

 

From evo77

"Here is the problem though, the SL1 is just about the best LED headlight bulb on the market*but yet it isn't. There is a flaw in the design that effects the beam focus. Even with this flaw the performance still beats out most competitors. If you are willing to do a simple modification it will greatly improve the beam performance."

 

 

From the manufacturer

"Hang tight for DD SL1 v2... it's not a complete redesign, but many issues like this addressed"

 

 

I hope it's obvious that my intentions aren't to bash these bulbs as apparently (no first hand experience) they are quite good. As tested in some headlights. Furthermore the company looks to listen to suggestions of its users and are planning to make adjustments/improvements to their product. Which says a lot and I would rather a company admit they didn't get it right "the first time" rather then deny and act as if everything they make is perfect.

 

 

***I'm not sure I agree with the comparison picture on diodes dynamics website, between stock and the led bulbs. Those "squirrel finders" are designed to let a controlled amount of light above the cut off. The intensity of that light was designed to be a specific amount and due to the lower brightness of the halogen bulbs it won't be that bright and of course within the legal limits for on coming drivers. I'm surprised subaru still has these in newer headlights. If that hole in the shield is covered these would be much better for the other drivers around you. I would strongly encourage anyone running this to make that modification but I highly doubt most will, as I doubt it could be done reliability without opening up the headlights.

 

The reason the picture is misleading is, the lower brightness of the halogen bulbs allows the camera to capture the even lower brightness of the "squirrel finders". With the leds installed the intensity of the beam is much brighter, if the camera was set to capture the lower amount of light coming from the "squirrel finders" the rest of the picture would be washed out. It's obvious this is happening due to the fact that the light from the "squirrel finders" seems to disappear in the led bulbs picture which obviously isn't happening. So like it or not the light being shined into oncoming traffic will be brighter then with halogen bulbs.

 

Which is why it heavily depends what headlights aftermarket bulbs go into. Some will have little to no increase in glare and other it's a large or big enough increase to cause issues for other drivers and therefore the bulbs should not be used or the headlights, when possible should be fixed so the glare is reduced to a reasonable level or removed entirely.

[upstater]

You apparently don't understand how they work as they would do the exact opposite of what you describe.

 

They are designed to compensate for more load in the rear. There are various ways to do it, but basically as the rear sags, the lights are aimed downward.

 

 

 

If you're gonna preach at least get it right.

 

 

Ok, so on that one issue, you still get a fail. If you put passengers in the rear seat, and items in the trunk, your headlights won't compensate as OEM wlll. Want to try again?

 

As for the piece of metal in your halogen projectors, let me guess, you either didn't know it was there, or were too lazy to bend it down, as I see you still have it there. BTW, your picture shows perfectly how you are gifting a little bit of extra glare into the eyes of oncoming drivers. Not your best argument.

 

As for the hotspot of the various bulb types, you have no magical wizardry to change the focal point of a halogen projector into a LED or HID projector, or do you have a shade tree solution you wish to share?

 

PS: what did we say about seat of the pants observations? I got you, yours are accurate...

[TwoTone]

Ok, so on that one issue, you still get a fail. If you put passengers in the rear seat, and items in the trunk, your headlights won't compensate as OEM wlll. Want to try again?

 

Sure not all OEM HID or LED headlights have self leveling- so your point?

 

As for the piece of metal in your halogen projectors, let me guess, you either didn't know it was there, or were too lazy to bend it down, as I see you still have it there. BTW, your picture shows perfectly how you are gifting a little bit of extra glare into the eyes of oncoming drivers. Not your best argument.

 

Let me guess your a condensing ass? Yes I knew it was there. Lazy?, like I said spent a few hours with the wife subjecting myself the the horrors of the spotlight like glare from that tiny bit of light above the cut off. I swear it was like staring into the sun- but F other drivers. Make you feel better- does that make me fit the profile you've assumed for me?

 

As for the hotspot of the various bulb types, you have no magical wizardry to change the focal point of a halogen projector into a LED or HID projector, or do you have a shade tree solution you wish to share?

 

Whos arguing that? I know a projector for HID is going to be better than a Halogen Projector with a HID- no shit. But the HID in a project is not the the second coming of the sun in peoples eyes like you want to preach.

 

No comment on the second picture? That is the real issue.

[upstater]

Ok, so on that one issue, you still get a fail. If you put passengers in the rear seat, and items in the trunk, your headlights won't compensate as OEM wlll. Want to try again?

/QUOTE]

 

Sure not all OEM HID or LED headlights have self leveling- so your point?

 

Your legacy with OEM HID's has legal light output designed not to harm other drivers.

 

Your other car has you just full of excuses and justifications.

 

You are still wrong. You will still be wrong after your next reply, and the reply after that.

 

Have a fine day.

[ncted]

Personally I don't trust or believe anything from a manufacturer. Of course they are going to say they are perfect. What would you expect?

 

By that logic, you shouldn't trust any manufactured product.

[ammcinnis]

OK, everybody. Time to dial the rhetoric back a bit. This is still just a car forum.

[nevets27]

By that logic, you shouldn't trust any manufactured product.

Very constructive of you. Well by your logic then every product is perfect since manufactures never admit there is anything wrong with their product. So you are kind of on the wrong forum as this is forum is dedicated to improving a manufactured product. And in the case specifically improving the quality of the headlights but its ok because subaru obviously got it right when then car left the showroom floor.

 

To each their own, if you want to blindly believing everything you're told then you are the perfect consumer. Go a head and spend lots of money on junk.

 

Also if you had bothered to actually read the entire post (I knew it wouldn't be long before someone responded without actually reading) you would see the manufacturer themselves actually did admit that there are some flaws in their design. Which is rare for a company to do. But they obviously didn't put that information on the product page. So believe what you want. But clearly you don't read or do your research so like I said, you'll make them more money so they won't complain.

[ncted]

Very constructive of you. Well by your logic then every product is perfect since manufactures never admit there is anything wrong with their product. So you are kind of on the wrong forum as this is forum is dedicated to improving a manufactured product. And in the case specifically improving the quality of the headlights but its ok because subaru obviously got it right when then car left the showroom floor.

 

To each their own, if you want to blindly believing everything you're told then you are the perfect consumer. Go a head and spend lots of money on junk.

 

Also if you had bothered to actually read the entire post (I knew it wouldn't be long before someone responded without actually reading) you would see the manufacturer themselves actually did admit that there are some flaws in their design. Which is rare for a company to do. But they obviously didn't put that information on the product page. So believe what you want. But clearly you don't read or do your research so like I said, you'll make them more money so they won't complain.

 

!n ≠ !!n

 

I did read your post. I simply focused on replying to the part I thought was pertinent. You certainly gleaned a lot about me from a single sentence. You clearly know me so well. Whatever.

[soares]

I’m back with the popcorn..

 

 

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[Wooosh]

Just do a retrofit. It’s so easy. Split the headlights, take the amber out, blackout the housing n make em look awesome, fit HID projectors, aim and everyone will be happy....especially you

[Wooosh]

If I may throw my .02 in here I’m sure I’d be speaking for most if not all that before you post something like that realize what you’re posting it in. Most of us here are not 18-20yr olds with “hooked up” cars. 30,40 even 50s car guys with kids and families that we care dearly for that you and other people that put these improper fitments into their cars could possibly affect those loved ones lives or our own by doing what your doing. It’s downright unsafe. These guys here are pretty nice actually. Try NASIOC...they’ll tear u a new one up n down for questions like this.

 

What most, if not all of the snarky comments are saying are true. If you don’t like it try posting this type of question on like your public Facebook r somthn n Johnny Douchebag will tell you the best place to get sweet 10000K headlight bulbs

 

Lastly if you are looking for a whiter (not brighter) halogen bulb (and please just use a halogen replacement in your halogen headlights) try the Nokya 7000K. They do not look like a 7000K HID bulb which would be more blue not white...they’re more like a 5000-5500K HID. They are a clean white. Not blue, not purple. While it will slightly affect brightness for the worse, you’re lights will look clean and white without them blinding people or heavily affecting the ACTUAL brightness. You guys are spending $150!!! for an improper headlight setup when you can do a proper retrofit with clean, correct light output for under $300 and a few hours of your time

 

Just do the retrofit please

[TwoTone]

Just do a retrofit. It’s so easy. Split the headlights, take the amber out, blackout the housing n make em look awesome, fit HID projectors, aim and everyone will be happy....especially you

 

So do a proper retro fit while making the headlights illegal by not have an side marker.

[Wooosh]

So do a proper retro fit while making the headlights illegal by not have an side marker.

 

 

 

Yes sir. And I’d be referring to amber colored halogen bulbs or switchbacks. Both are 100% legal and the switchbacks are on a lot of new cars nowadays. White running light/DRL and white off-amber-off-amber-off and then back to white. Or an amber colored bulb that would be an amber running light and amber signal obviously

 

Look like this

Amber Halogens

 

And switchbacks

Running light

Blinker

 

You’re rebuttal is ridiculous because you have no defense for your silly blinding toy lights that are extremely dangerous and illegal