mitchbp6 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Hey Everyone! I am assuming this is not a common job that is done to the 4th gen legacy since I could not find any content on this when searching google. I am currently in the works of replacing my fuel fuller neck on my 05 Legacy GT Wagon. I have all the hoses and any bolts/clamps removed. The neck is hanging free, however I do not appear to have enough room to wiggle the fuel filler neck out from the car. It is getting caught on the fill area since there is not enough room for the neck to move down before getting caught on the rear sub frame. I thought I would have enough room to wiggle it out once I had everything disconnected, but it appears I may not. Has anyone had any experience with removing a fuel filler neck from their 05 legacy? Some background: I have been smelling a strong fuel smell every time I fill the vehicle to full ONLY on the passenger side, around the filler neck area ONLY. I have replaced the fuel cap already with another genuine subaru cap. I am smelling NO fuel in the cabin, and it is not evident on the drivers side of the vehicle. Gas tank appears to be okay from what I could see, I will need to take a better look though still. I though why not just replace the filler neck first and see if this clears things up. I have been getting an engine code since I have owned it (2 years) for a very small EVAP leak. Long story short, I decided to try and tackle this issue finally, and I am starting with the filler neck. Has anyone ever had any experience with this? Can this be removed without removing some suspension/sub frame components? Thanks in advance!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relative4 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 The FSM says remove the subframe. http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchbp6 Posted October 7, 2018 Author Share Posted October 7, 2018 The FSM says remove the subframe. http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/ Thanks Relative4 for the install guide! I was hoping removing the sub frame was not going to be the answer, but I do not see anyway around it. I will see what I can do, but looks like I will either leave it (Lazy life at the moment, hence 2 years of ignoring the problem) or I will be removing the rear sub frame... Thanks again! Hopefully things go smooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
relative4 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Have you smoked tested to verify the hunch and justify the work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrig Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 yes surprised to see subframe removal for the filler neck ! if you going to drop the sub frame you better to check first is not the tank ,better to do it once for all . is the same story as mine , two yaers with engine light coming on a few and coming more . started smelling gas two time around the car so decided to really check , was tired of the code anyway . i was thinkink filler neck or evap hose crack . find no gaz on filler neck , is look good for the age in fact . finally discover the tank is rust . i can see the flange on top of the differentiel that expanded . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchbp6 Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 Have you smoked tested to verify the hunch and justify the work? Yes, I made my own smoke tester, did a smoke test a year ago, but I did not do the best job. I think the pressure I was using for my regulator was slightly too high (maybe 2 PSI) and it made me feel uncomfortable since its such a high mileage vehicle that has been exposed to lots of corrosion. When I did the smoke test, I could not find any obvious leaks, but then again I checked everything except for the fuel tank and filler neck So at the moment its all base on a hunch, but I am not even sure I will be going through with all this work as it will make me literally want to replace everything!!! Fuel tank, filler neck, sub frame bushings, diff bushings, control arms, control arm bushings, rear shocks, etc... Which will then make me want to do the front too! And the car really is not worth all that work with the mileage and the body conditon. I would like to maybe find another manual LGT wagon and swap parts over. They are just so hard to find with a manual transmission... yes surprised to see subframe removal for the filler neck ! if you going to drop the sub frame you better to check first is not the tank ,better to do it once for all . is the same story as mine , two yaers with engine light coming on a few and coming more . started smelling gas two time around the car so decided to really check , was tired of the code anyway . i was thinkink filler neck or evap hose crack . find no gaz on filler neck , is look good for the age in fact . finally discover the tank is rust . i can see the flange on top of the differentiel that expanded . Good call! and I totally agree with you. I need to think about this more and decide what I really want to do with the car at this point... But if I keep it, I might be changing the fuel tank as well. I would not be surprised if it is all rusty as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Last Aug 2017, I had my buddies body shop replace the tank and filler neck in my 05 wagon. Its a big job. I'm sure I posted here about it. [ATTACH]269592[/ATTACH] 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 I do have a very low mileage EVAP canister if you still have the smell once you replace the tank inlet. PM me if you need it and I'll make you a heck of a deal on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchbp6 Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 Last Aug 2017, I had my buddies body shop replace the tank and filler neck in my 05 wagon. Its a big job. I'm sure I posted here about it. [ATTACH]269592[/ATTACH] [ATTACH]269593[/ATTACH] I will keep this in mind if I end up doing the fuel tank in the future, thanks for giving me a heads up! Also I got my fuel filler neck out without dropping the sub frame completely, I will be posting some more in a bit. My fuel filler neck looked exactly like yours, rust in the same spot! I do have a very low mileage EVAP canister if you still have the smell once you replace the tank inlet. PM me if you need it and I'll make you a heck of a deal on it. I did check my EVAP canister closer to when I first bought the car and everything seems to be okay, not crazy fuel smell in that area and smoke test did not show any signs of leaks. But I will also keep this in mind in case something happens in the near future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchbp6 Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 So, as I had previously posted on a reply, I managed to remove and replace my fuel filler neck without completely dropping my sub frame. Here is what I did: 1. Raised the back of the vehicle up as high as I could get it 2. Support both sides via jack stands (min. 1 jack stand per wheel off the ground is my rule) 3. Remove passenger and drivers side rear wheels 4. Remove plastic inner fender covering fuel filler neck on passenger side 5. Remove (3) bolts holding fuel filler neck in (I believe T25 Torx) 6. Take metal bracket out from fill cavity 7. Remove (2) 10mm support bolts holding on fuel filler neck assembly to the body of the vehicle 8. Disconnect the top EVAP hose nearby the top of the fuel filler neck 9. Disconnect the (2) EVAP hoses nearby the end of the fuel filler neck 10. Disconnect the hose clamp holding the rubber hose from the gas tank to the end of the fuel filler neck 11. Fuel filler neck should be free at this point but there is not enough room to slide it out from the top of the filler neck area 12. Support the sub frame (I placed a jack on the rear diff with everything attached, and also a 6TON jack stand on the right side of the sub frame where I am primarily working in case I loosen some bolts too much) 13. Drop your Cat Back portion of your exhaust for easy accessibility 14. Start to loosen the (6) 19mm sub frame bolts to drop the sub frame just enough (maybe 1" to 1.5") 15. I also removed the 17mm sub frame bracket support bolts 16. Sub frame should be dropped just enough to side the top (fill area) of the fuel fuller neck out of the vehicle 17. Re-install new fuel filler neck, transfer parts over from old neck to new as needed 18. Once new filler neck is installed completely, start to tighten up the sub frame to its original position and specs 19. Torque sub frame to specs (130ft-lbs to sub frame mounts (4) 19mm bolts, 92 ft-lbs for arm brackets to body (2) 19mm bolts and 48 ft-lbs for 17mm support bracket bolts) 20. Make sure everything is properly secured and attached 21. put wheels back on and gas cap on new fuel filler neck http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac31/mitch667/IMG_3085_zpslx0pgdpx.jpg http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac31/mitch667/IMG_3082_zpsnwz5etqe.jpg http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac31/mitch667/IMG_3086_zpsth9uxvf8.jpg http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac31/mitch667/IMG_3087_zps9wa6votj.jpg http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac31/mitch667/IMG_3088_zpsxgtwsx9n.jpg http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac31/mitch667/IMG_3097_zpstz4gb3k0.jpg http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac31/mitch667/IMG_3098_zps2qeesmbn.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 Nice pictures and write up. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrig Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 nice , thanks a lot ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madrig Posted October 9, 2018 Share Posted October 9, 2018 do you think the filler neck is toast ? it is porous on the rust area ? also did you take a look at the gas tank ? i hope this will fix your problem . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchbp6 Posted October 9, 2018 Author Share Posted October 9, 2018 do you think the filler neck is toast ? it is porous on the rust area ? also did you take a look at the gas tank ? i hope this will fix your problem . I have not dropped the gas tank or the gas tank plastic shield/cover. The cover has some oil residue on it (I am assuming its not fuel since it does not smell like fuel and gasoline does not really gum up like oil does. It is likely over spray from when my rear diff was lightly leaking over the course of many months) I put the fuller neck to some light so see if I can see any light pass through the inside through the rusted area, but I did not see any light penetration or obvious holes. Although, the rust on the filler neck is pretty bad! The only good way I can think of to properly test if this filler neck has a leak as a result of corrosion is to pressurize it with smoke. Unfortunately I do not have my own air compressor, so if I do try to smoke test it, I will not be able to do that anytime soon. My EVAP code / Leak only threw a CEL code about once or twice a month for a very small leak. I will pay attention when I fill the car up next to see if the fuel smell persists when filled to full. I have not filled the car up since this install (finished this yesterday). I will check back in once I fill the car, and if the engine light comes back on within the next month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berge56 Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 subscribed. I potentially have 2 outbacks in the family that I may need to do this too as they both have bad gas smells after fills. I suspect it's the filler neck but curious to see if this solves your gas smell after a fill up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchbp6 Posted October 12, 2018 Author Share Posted October 12, 2018 So far I have filled my tank to full, an have parked it in my garage for the past (3) nights. My work is about 4 min drive away from my home, so my tank has been "full" as of today since my last fill up on Tuesday night. Driven about 30-40 km total so far. My garage does not completely smell like fuel since I have replaced the fuel filler neck, so there is definitely an improvement in terms of smell when my tank is full. I can only smell fuel outside the fill neck area if I am about 1-2 inches away from the gas lid. Probably residual fuel from when I filled the tank. I had started to smell (very faint, while my HVAC system is on) small amounts of fuel in my cabin since the install. I am not sure if this is all in my head or if it is an actual leak? If it is a leak, I wonder if my system is more "Pressurized" now that the neck is not leaking (assuming it was leaking) and maybe this put more pressure on another component to cause a leak? Either way, more time is needed to see if the problem has cleared (the CEL) and to see if the system is actually pressurized when I removed the gas cap when I am closer to an empty tank. I will be on vacation out of my local city for 10 days next week, so the car will be sitting for some time. I likely will not see a more empty tank for some time, but I will keep everyone posted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JmP6889928 Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Sounds to me like the fuel pump top has deteriorated and you're getting fuel passing through the plastic. I had that happen at about 85K miles and had to replace the entire assembly. Remove the rear seat and the FP cover and see if the top of your pump is wet. I would make that the first priority now that you've replaced the filler tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchbp6 Posted October 12, 2018 Author Share Posted October 12, 2018 Sounds to me like the fuel pump top has deteriorated and you're getting fuel passing through the plastic. I had that happen at about 85K miles and had to replace the entire assembly. Remove the rear seat and the FP cover and see if the top of your pump is wet. I would make that the first priority now that you've replaced the filler tube. Yes, this is definitely the next item I will be looking at. Just need to find the time... I will check back in once I get around to this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted October 13, 2018 Share Posted October 13, 2018 Smelling gas inside the car makes me wonder if you have a cracked fuel pump housing, happened to me and some others. Maybe see if the smell is stronger if you sniff near/under the rear seat https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/cracked-fuel-pump-housings-need-recall-259756.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchbp6 Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 Update, I have not looked too much further into my LGT since replacing the fuel filler neck as I have been working on my OBXT flywheel and clutch replacement for the last month (sat in the garage waiting for parts...) The fuel filler neck did not solve the problem, the old neck was rusty so maybe it contributed? But I am still getting the CEL. Next is to check the fuel pump housing, and then the charcoal canister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holla Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 I’m in the same situation here. Are you getting the P0442 code? I’ll be interested to see what you find. It’s a tough one to trouble shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchbp6 Posted January 16, 2019 Author Share Posted January 16, 2019 I’m in the same situation here. Are you getting the P0442 code? I’ll be interested to see what you find. It’s a tough one to trouble shoot. Yes Sir! P0442 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchbp6 Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 Did a smoke test recently with a smoke machine I had made based on this: https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/diy-smoke-leak-tester-277243.html?p=5866684#post5866684 I was looking for smoke in the following places: -EVAP canister -Fuel filler neck -Fuel pump and sender -Anywhere in engine bay area -Under frame of car I did find a leak, but the leak was on the intercooler. It appears the metal and plastic slightly separated on one of the tabs. I would imagine an intercooler leak would not cause an EVAP leak with code P0442 right? Still uncertain as to what could be causing this small leak... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Capacity Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Well fix the one leak at the tmic and reset the ECU and start over after the CEL comes back in in 60 miles. 305,600miles 5/2012 ej257 short block, 8/2011 installed VF52 turbo, @20.8psi, 280whp, 300ftlbs. (SOLD). CHECK your oil, these cars use it. Engine Build - Click Here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchbp6 Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 Well fix the one leak at the tmic and reset the ECU and start over after the CEL comes back in in 60 miles. Yea, I will have to do some further testing, assuming my OBXT intercooler is not cracked as well, I will swap that over onto my LGT and see if any other areas leak. Maybe the system is not retaining enough pressure to have the smoke leak anywhere else other than the easiest spot, which is the intercooler. Been lazy since I am selling my LGT because I have my OBXT all running, and its in much better shape with lower mileage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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