Spitballing ideas for upgrading my '05 Legacy GT

[Rhiadon]

The impetus for this spitballing is that I drove a 2018 STI and loved it. However, I have a '05 Legacy GT 5MT so it's hard to justify 40 grand for that car. This sent me down the road of ideas of things I could do to my Legacy instead of buying a new car. I figured I could spend quite a bit on parts and not even come close to 40 grand.

 

So I was wanting to get some thoughts from the best a brightest around here of things that might be reasonable to do. I'll start with some ideas I've already had. Please feel free to comment on those ideas if you want as well.

 

1. New/bigger turbo with front mount intercooler. Is twin scroll an option?

 

2. Spec B transmission swap. Is this really feasible or even beneficial?

 

3. Entirely new exhaust back of the downpipe (not sure what people are using these days, Borla?)

 

4. Big brake kit

 

5. ECU tune

 

6. New springs (I don't want really any lowering, just stiffer. Is there a maker of springs that has very little to no drop?)

 

7. New intake

 

8. Exhaust header. Does someone make one that doesn't route near the passenger side head? (no more melting valve cover gaskets)

 

9. Short shifter

 

10. atmospheric blow off valve (hey, they sound cool)

 

Here's the things that have already been done over the years

 

1. Perrin Down-pipe

2. Invidia Up-pipe

3. Perrin sway bars

4. New shocks/struts (Can't recall which off the top of my head. They are adjustable)

5. Mechanical boost controller

[Gabo]

The impetus for this spitballing is that I drove a 2018 STI and loved it. However, I have a '05 Legacy GT 5MT so it's hard to justify 40 grand for that car. This sent me down the road of ideas of things I could do to my Legacy instead of buying a new car. I figured I could spend quite a bit on parts and not even come close to 40 grand.

 

So I was wanting to get some thoughts from the best a brightest around here of things that might be reasonable to do. I'll start with some ideas I've already had. Please feel free to comment on those ideas if you want as well.

 

1. New/bigger turbo with front mount intercooler. Is twin scroll an option?

 

You make no mention of what power goals you have or the mileage on your car, but I would start with a compression check to verify the health of the engine. Also depending on how much power you wish to make you might need to set money aside for the YNANSB club.

 

2. Spec B transmission swap. Is this really feasible or even beneficial?

 

I can't comment on this since I'm not familiar with the cost or complexity.

 

3. Entirely new exhaust back of the downpipe (not sure what people are using these days, Borla?)

 

Lot's of options. Invidia, Magnaflow, Borla, custom.

 

4. Big brake kit

 

Big brake kits don't necessarily improve braking distance so I would consider this unnecessary unless you track the car. Then again if you have the money and want the bling factor, why not?

 

5. ECU tune

 

I currently run an Accessport, as far as tuners are concerned do your research. There's a few choices that are well regarded. (Tuning Alliance for example)

 

6. New springs (I don't want really any lowering, just stiffer. Is there a maker of springs that has very little to no drop?)

 

Can't comment on this, other than coilovers can be set to stock or almost stock height.

 

7. New intake

 

Depending on power goals the stock intake might be sufficient. Good up to 350whp.

 

8. Exhaust header. Does someone make one that doesn't route near the passenger side head? (no more melting valve cover gaskets)

 

Many options here as well, I would suggest equal length for the sake of efficiency and heat transfer from cylinder 4.

 

9. Short shifter

 

No comment

 

10. atmospheric blow off valve (hey, they sound cool)

 

Will need tuning to do this and I believe you'll have to run on a speed density map.

 

Here's the things that have already been done over the years

 

1. Perrin Down-pipe

2. Invidia Up-pipe

3. Perrin sway bars

4. New shocks/struts (Can't recall which off the top of my head. They are adjustable)

5. Mechanical boost controller Get a 3 port electronic boost controller and get the car tuned.

[Wasted Potential]

Remove stock resonator, 3 port controller, and an e tune. Just get the banjo filters gone asap.

 

Edit: or buy a Taurus SHO, go stage 4+ from livernois and run mid 12s all day long in a 4400lb awd sexy mobile.

[baconbits]

...do you have a downpipe on it and no tune already?

 

You *must* have some aftermarket tune if you have a downpipe. If not, get one as soon as possible and enjoy +50hp and +60tq. Best bang for buck and time spent.

[ttnio]

My opinion, its hard to beat the feeling of owning and driving everything "new".

[Rhitter]

I just can't get behind the looks of the current model WRX.

[Rhiadon]

Thank you all so far for the input. This is the kind of thing I was looking for. Things I might not have thought of, like what Gabo brought up: what are my power goals and the mileage.

 

I'd like to get to 300-350. Seems like a reasonable number without possibly needing to go to extreme measures.

 

The car has 170k miles on it, but it's the second turbo. First one blew up under warranty because of the banjo filter issue. Those are gone as part of the warranty repair.

 

So far what I think is the first step is a compression test. I'm not sure where to start on that. Just call some mechanics and see if they have the equipment. Is that something fairly specialized?

 

Also what is the "NNSB club"?

 

So to answer another question, I do have a downpipe and no tune, just the mechanical boost controller. I've never looked at an electronic 3 port controller. What are the benefits? It sounds like that and an ECU tune would be a good step 2 after any repairs need to be made if there is a compression issue.

 

Step 3 I think might likely be a catback exhaust.

 

Step 4 might be new header.

 

It sounds like with just those 4 things, the LGT can be a beast.

[Wasted Potential]

If you're looking for 300-350, is that at wheels or crank.. For at the wheels the Vf40 won't be enough. Then after a turbo you'll need a fuel pump and injectors, and then a wideband and boost controller, and the tune as well.

 

If you're on a Vf40 replacement i would just do the 3 port and e tune (have to buy an accessport).

Search/google a compression check, and change the spark plugs while you're at it. Might as well do a leak down instead while you are at it.

[Rhitter]

YNANSB club, is what I think that's referring to. Aka you need a new short block aka goodbye $6k.

 

Its typically what happens at some point with these cars.

[Rhiadon]

So my turbo is the stock turbo, just a replacement under warranty.

 

If the stock turbo isn't enough for much in the way of real horse power gains then I'm all for replacing it with something bigger. I just don't want lag.

 

Also I'm not sure if I would mean 300-350 whp or crank. It all depends on what is really practical. I think my goal is to get whatever the 2018 STI makes, or maybe a little more. If that can't practically be done with the stock turbo, then new turbo it is.

 

You guys are giving me good questions to ask. So I appreciate that. This discovery is part of figuring out what I want to do.

 

Found out today that I need to do something about my knock sensor. I just replaced it and it still says it's bad so that's my first thing to get fixed. I think it's because I angled it the wrong way. That thing is a pain to get to.

 

I'm wondering if maybe even looking for a rebuilt engine might be the way to go. I imagine that may address any gremlins I might have lurking. Any thoughts on that as a starting point? Is there a builder that builds pretuned "drop in" EJ25's?

[baconbits]

I stand firm with you need a tune, ASAP, if you're running an aftermarket downpipe, or you are literally chancing YNANSB every time you drive the car.

 

300-350 is risky on a stock block, if you want reliable daily driver 350, you're looking at at minimum, forged pistons, turbo, fuel injectors, tune, and intercooler.

[Gabo]

YNANSB club, is what I think that's referring to. Aka you need a new short block aka goodbye $6k.

 

Its typically what happens at some point with these cars.

 

Thanks for reminding me how it actually went lol. Initial post edited.

 

OP This is my current setup, this should give you an idea of what it will take to safely reach the 350 whp club.

 

Here is my setup;

 

SB with Forged OF rods and CP 9.0:1 pistons, stock nitride crank

Stock heads and cams

SoCal Porting Stage 3 VF52 Ported

ETS FMIC

KSTech 73mm Intake with heat shield

TGV deletes with phenolic spacers

AVO Inlet

Killer B Holy Header w/ uppipe

Grimspeed Catted Divorced Downpipe

Invidia Q300

Grimspeed 3 port EBCS

DW 1300cc Injectors

DW300c

Southbend Stage 2 Endurance Clutch

STI OEM SM Flywheel

Delicious Tuning Flex Fuel Kit with custom dyno tune from Bill himself

Accessport V3

 

91 Oct results

269 WHP (5300 rpm)

288 WTQ (4300 rpm)

Full Boost at (4300 rpm , 21 psi)

 

E60 Results

355 WHP (5300 rpm)

370 WTQ (4000 rpm)

Full Boost (3900 rpm, 24 psi)

 

On Infamous Performance Heart breaker Mustang Dyno

[Holla]

Exactly what aspect did you like about the Sti?

 

With 170k I’d recommend a compression and leak down test before you invest any money into modding your lgt. I’d also consider a new timing belt if everything checks out ok.

 

A good, reliable, cost effective setup would be:

 

VF-52

Downpipe

Tune

Replace or reinforce tmic

 

A 6 speed swap will run you somewhere around 4-5k installed.

[Rhiadon]

Holla: What I liked about the STI was how it felt like it effortlessly was accelerating in any gear. The silkiness of the 6 speed was also nice, but I think my 5 speed is pretty silky, so any attempt to get a 6 speed in my LGT would just be to get 6 gears. Also the fact that it doesn't squat like a puppy under acceleration is very nice. So basically the feel of power in the butt dyno and how well it felt when turning in and how responsive it was were all very nice things.

 

baconbits: Your insistence has definitely caught my attention. Now I just need to learn and understand why you say what you do. I've been running a Perrin down pipe and Invidia up-pipe with no ECU tune for over 100k miles and I don't know of any issue that it caused. What should I be worried about specifically?

[Rhiadon]

Have been doing some more research and found a post on this forum about common failures. Two of them had to do with the stock tune of the ECU causing problems. Lean mix under boost and too much timing for cylinder 2 and 4. Is this the kind of problem you;re talking about when you say I need a tune? I'm guessing that the freer flowing exhaust just exacerbates these issues. Is that correct?

 

I'm certainly not opposed to getting an ECU tune. I just want to understand the problem so I can make well informed decisions.

 

What tune should I be looking for? Cobb? Somethign else that costs a bit (or much) less? I guess there is some open source tune for these cars. Is that a good/safe way to go?

[Wasted Potential]

I'm certainly not opposed to getting an ECU tune.

 

There is no logic to NOT tune it. You seem to understand the logic why TO tune it.

Can slap on all these mods, doesn't mean you will make more power. It NEEDS to be tuned if you care about performance or reliability.

 

Cobb is nice and easy, makes e-tunes and data logging simple.

Open Source can be $600-$850 cheaper than the Cobb A/P (A/P=$600, e-tune=$250), but you need to learn how to tune it yourself.

 

EDIT: I bought an accessport when I started, but would rather go open source. I just didn't have the time to learn, I needed to tune it within a week.

[Holla]

You definitely need a tune.

 

Did you buy this car with the Perrin downpipe on it or you installed it yourself? I find it hard to believe that you’ve been driving it for 100k with a 3” downpipe with the factory tune.

[JustCallMeNick]

You definitely need a tune.

 

Did you buy this car with the Perrin downpipe on it or you installed it yourself? I find it hard to believe that you’ve been driving it for 100k with a 3” downpipe with the factory tune.

Yeah I'm also perplexed by this.

 

EDIT: we don't think you're lying - but experience suggests that the engine should have failed many tens of thousands of miles ago. If you bought the car and it had that stuff on there and you've been good for 100k then perhaps it already has a Stage 2 tune on it (you need a Stage 2 tune for downpipe).

[gkinslow]

Yeah I'm also perplexed by this.

 

EDIT: we don't think you're lying - but experience suggests that the engine should have failed many tens of thousands of miles ago. If you bought the car and it had that stuff on there and you've been good for 100k then perhaps it already has a Stage 2 tune on it (you need a Stage 2 tune for downpipe).

 

Not to mention the check engine light resulting from the aftermarket Catless UP.

[Tschagfreebird151]

A larger turbo, and completely new pipes 3" from down pipe all the way back to your two invidia q300 would be an amazing up grade. It would not be cheep but you will be happy you did it.

[Tschagfreebird151]

I have my cel light bypassed, so it does not come on from this mod.

[gkinslow]

I have my cel light bypassed, so it does not come on from this mod.

 

That is usually done when you get TUNED for you new mods.

[Max Capacity]

OP, You can have a fun reliable DD for a few thousand dollars.

 

My wagon has kind of been a model

 

It dose have ported heads which are not really needed but the price was right when I put a ej257 short block in the car.

 

VF52 turbo, catless up pipe and down pipe, would go catted dp next time. GS tmic, stock fueling, Moore Performance Blast Plates on the 5mt. I like the Spec Clutches 2+ clutch and OEM SMFW. Stock intake with a K&N panel filter lightly oiled.

 

Tuned by www.tuningalliance.com That one fact I think is the most important. He is that good.

 

That set up dynoed at 21psi is about to roll 100,000 trouble free miles. There's a little more info in the click here link in my sig.

 

I have recently upgrade to a AEM 320 fuel pump when I had the gas tank replaced.

 

With injectors I could get a few more WHP but I don't feel the need, the car is plenty fast now.

[Rhiadon]

Things have cooled down a bit around so I have time to start working on this.

 

I'm having two problems if some of you could point me in the right direction. I've tried doing searches for both of these subjects and having trouble finding where to start.

 

1. Is there a list of tuners by state. I'm in West Michigan and would like to find someone close by if possible.

 

2. A good starting point for the open source tune option. I can do the stuff, I just can't find out where to start reading to do the learning.

 

Thanks

[hadvw]

I went with open source, and just learned the basic (logging, flashing) and let http://www.tuningalliance.com handle all the actual "tuning" parts. I told him what I had, and sent logs, etc.

 

A couple of points:

1) unless you want the looks, actual new mufflers don't do much until you're past 400 hp.

 

2) top-mount intercooler (TMIC), up pipe (UP), down pipe (DP), injectors, fuel pump and a turbo like a VF52 (what the WRX, not STI, came with for '09-14) and a tune, and you should have a noticeable bump. BNR 16g is also an option. It's what I have. AFAIK, VF52 is similar. Sounds like you already have UP/DP.

 

3) six speed swap = 6 gears AND a lot stronger. The 6 speed transmission is good to around 450-500 hp. The 5 speed, well.. some people have had 5th gear die with a STOCK setup. Anyone who goes for more than 300-350, 6 speed is a must. However, it's one of those where, AFAIK, you can't really damage much other than the transmission, and I don't think there's much of a market for used 5MTs with that many miles. So, you might just want to wait, and when it dies, put in a 6 speed.