Rusted Rear Brake Lines - Subaru won't honor their recall?

[Max Capacity]

 

For some reason I can't get my pics to upload ("Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing"), so I threw up an imgur album for anyone interested: https://imgur.com/gallery/SqZFj

 

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Same issue I had until I was told I needed to "log out" and log back in.

 

To log out, click on the "HOME" link on that blue bar up top of the page, then click the User CP link on the upper left, you'll see your avatar, under that is the "log out" link.

 

I can even post photos from here at work now..

[RecklessWOT]

Glad it worked out for you. Now you can go forward with confidence knowing it's good to go, and nowhere near dropping 3 grand...

 

This thread actually inspired me to check mine and luckily it's barely more than surface rust.

[subysouth]

Mild revival here - has anyone had a brake line failure in an area other than the rear of the cars? Are these lines only failing at the rear? If so any speculation as to why?

 

ss

[WahooNo2]

The why is pretty easy, its where the lines break. They didnt rust proof the joint and then the fix for it is them spraying rust proofing wax... which is garbage unless it was surface rust. It doesnt fail in the front because if you trace the lines in the front they are all protected from the abs block until they pop out near the wheel... from there it is flexible lines which wont likely break unless they are cut, abraded or rotted out in some manner.

[covertrussian]

Correct, my lines were only bad where the plastic protection was removed for mounting to the car or at the attachment block. Subaru only sprayed on the attachment block, but not the car mounting points, which means those will fail overtime too.

[subysouth]

I appreciate the reply wahoo and I think that explains the why there FIRST but I'm concerned as I was intending to pass this car on to my child. I guess what I am looking for is reasonable level of confidence if I repair/upgrade the lines at the rear is that the reasonable end of the problem?

 

It seem like the lines are simply made of garbage material. My logical mind says while I can understand the circumstances of the first failures at the rear, forward failure is likely to be just delayed unless as you say there is effectively no exposure at the front.

 

I'm old - driven plenty of cars - used a 69 F100 as a daily driver/work truck for more than ten years(on its original hard lines - sold on its original hard lines - still in use on its original hard lines with a drywall contractor) and I have never had a hard line failure on a car - ever.

 

I have looked at the rear lines and for lack of better word they are simply disintegrating from the outside in. I am in the camp this is too young a car for that level of failure on a basic system like the brake lines. The durability there should be on par with unibody rust-through. These lines are too important and too buried to be effectively serviceable. The lines should be dying with the expected interval of use of the car. I'm gonna call that 20 years. I don't have a problem with worn anything moving including engine, suspension, calipers etc but these hard static lines should be built of materials to punch in and do work for the lifespan of the vehicle effectively untouched.

 

My thoughts.

 

ss

[WahooNo2]

Ya I agree with you there. I wish that they made the lines from stainless steel from the factory or there was a company that made a kit for our cars of pre bent stainless steel aftermarket ones eg:

 

http://ssbrakes.com/c-1097793-categories-brake-lines-hard-brake-lines.html

 

You can buy or make your own from strait lines too, if you wanted to. I think that somewhere in the basement of the car companies there is someone doing statistical anaylsis that says in 99.9% regular brake lines are fIne.... aka 1 in 1000 cars will have an issue with lines the rest will be fine and the extra 100 dollars in materials and labor is not needed because we want the car to cost x dollars in margin on a car that will be z dollars for the consumer. They also do cost benefit analysis that uses the average length of time someone keeps a new car that hasn't been removed from the road due to accidents, wear and tear, etc is around 6 to 15 years.

 

So the car doesnt get ss lines from the factory that will last 30-40 years or more, you dont get 4 pot brakes beacuse 2 pots still stop you almost the same, you dont get stainess exhaust systems except for the cat piping because of regulations on lifetime *some newer cars do have stainless now* because of a bean counter that just cares about margins and tenths of a perecentage points of failures and they know you will probably be back next time.

 

If you dont have a leak yet but still have a bit of rust and really like the car and are concerned replace the lines eventually. The part that broke on mine required the gas tank to drop. Before I drive I usually push hard on the brakes to make sure I still have brakes and that was when my line broke which was good that it didnt cause an accident but bad becuase I was at work leaving, and still had to get home.

[WahooNo2]

Ya I agree with you there. I wish that they made the lines from stainless steel from the factory or there was a company that made a kit for our cars of pre bent stainless steel aftermarket ones eg:

 

http://ssbrakes.com/c-1097793-categories-brake-lines-hard-brake-lines.html

 

You can buy or make your own from strait lines too, if you wanted to. I think that somewhere in the basement of the car companies there is someone doing statistical anaylsis that says in 99.9% regular brake lines are fIne.... aka 1 in 1000 cars will have an issue with lines the rest will be fine and the extra 100 dollars in materials and labor is not needed because we want the car to cost x dollars in margin on a car that will be z dollars for the consumer. They also do cost benefit analysis that uses the average length of time someone keeps a new car that hasn't been removed from the road due to accidents, wear and tear, etc is around 6 to 15 years.

 

So the car doesnt get ss lines from the factory that will last 30-40 years or more, you dont get 4 pot brakes beacuse 2 pots still stop you almost the same, you dont get stainess exhaust systems except for the cat piping because of regulations on lifetime *some newer cars do have stainless now* because of a bean counter that just cares about margins and tenths of a perecentage points of failures and they know you will probably be back next time.

 

If you dont have a leak yet but still have a bit of rust and really like the car and are concerned replace the lines eventually. The part that broke on mine required the gas tank to drop. Before I drive I usually push hard on the brakes to make sure I still have brakes and that was when my line broke which was good that it didnt cause an accident but bad becuase I was at work leaving, and still had to get home.

[RecklessWOT]

I appreciate the reply wahoo and I think that explains the why there FIRST but I'm concerned as I was intending to pass this car on to my child. I guess what I am looking for is reasonable level of confidence if I repair/upgrade the lines at the rear is that the reasonable end of the problem?

 

It seem like the lines are simply made of garbage material. My logical mind says while I can understand the circumstances of the first failures at the rear, forward failure is likely to be just delayed unless as you say there is effectively no exposure at the front.

 

I'm old - driven plenty of cars - used a 69 F100 as a daily driver/work truck for more than ten years(on its original hard lines - sold on its original hard lines - still in use on its original hard lines with a drywall contractor) and I have never had a hard line failure on a car - ever.

 

I have looked at the rear lines and for lack of better word they are simply disintegrating from the outside in. I am in the camp this is too young a car for that level of failure on a basic system like the brake lines. The durability there should be on par with unibody rust-through. These lines are too important and too buried to be effectively serviceable. The lines should be dying with the expected interval of use of the car. I'm gonna call that 20 years. I don't have a problem with worn anything moving including engine, suspension, calipers etc but these hard static lines should be built of materials to punch in and do work for the lifespan of the vehicle effectively untouched.

 

My thoughts.

 

ss

 

You live in the south where you don't deal with the road salt from the winters up north. While you guys aren't used to dealing with brake lines rusting out like we are, they're still a thin metal line and it's possible it could rust out anywhere for example if the protective coating was nicked and you routinely parked the car in a muddy driveway or something.

 

I wouldn't worry about the brake lines like it's the end of the world, if you want to pass the car on to your child just keep an eye on the lines and make sure they're in good shape before you hand it over. If they're not looking so good, replace them. It's not all that hard to do and if done at home, or at least not at the dealership, it really doesn't cost that much.

 

As to if they're guaranteed to rust out or not, every car is different. Even up here in the land of salt and rust, I have had cars/trucks that were 30-40 years old and were on the original lines, and I've had cars that were 10-12 which blew out a brake line while driving (obviously used cars that were not cared for by their previous owner). It's all a case by case type of thing. The legacy has points that are more likely to rust out than other spots on the car, but that does not mean it is definitely going to break there, or anywhere else especially. Just inspect what you have. For the record, my '05 Legacy barely has surface rust even in the notorious spot, so anything is possible.

Edited December 17, 2017 by RecklessWOT

[Wasted Potential]

Salt for days here, just like you can never buy a late 80s to mid 2000s GMC or Chevy truck without the brake and fuel lines rusting out, the LGTs around here do the same because of the immense amount of salt used... I'm sure local plant life loves it... Edited December 16, 2017 by Wasted Potential

[MTBwrench]

Salt for days here, just like you can never buy a late 80s to mid 2000s GMC or Chevy truck without the brake and unfurlones rusting out, the LGTs around here do the same because of the immense amount of salt used... I'm sure local plant life loves it...

 

Concurred. It snowed once here, less than 3/8" inch, and the next day there was so much salt on the streets that it kicked up like gravel on my mudflaps.

 

I can't imagine how expensive and wasteful that has to be.

[08SpecB_DE]

Pre-bent lines are NOT the bees knees. It sounds great but you have to remember the lines are one of the first things they install at the factory. I would much rather cut out a bad line and replace it then go through the hassle of removing everything in the way to install a pre-bent. It's also quite difficult to line up everything perfectly. Keep in mind, I've only done pre-bents on GM vehicles because dealers sell whole kits, but it very time consuming and tedious.

 

The best kind of metal to use when repairing the lines is to use copper. You can buy it by the roll, it's very easy to shape and it will last much longer than you will own the car.

[subysouth]

To clarify I had a rear line burst in traffic at speed. I'll let you do the math there and I can without a doubt say I was lucky there was an open lane to put the wagon into otherwise repairing the lines would not be a concern.

 

My car spent its first six years in CT before coming here. It was inspected here 2 years back and the dealer said it was fine.

 

I do not believe the longevity of the lines is consistent with a reasonable expectation of lifespan. 60% of Subaru's sales are made right here in the US. My car was built in the US. The US has been salting the roads for decades. Do the math.

 

I have heard copper mentioned here twice. Funny story - way back in my youth I had collected enough funds to secure a 1984 200SX Turbo. I burned the first turbo down in about 9 months. It cost about $1000 USD circa 1990 to repair. That got my attention and it turns out there was a design flaw in the oil feed line to the turbo - it ran up and over the engine at the firewall and would drain itself every time you shut down the car, so the torbo would start "dry." I cut the oem line out - flanged about $2 worth of copper tubing from Home Depot and routed it low and under the engine and problem solved.

 

I loved that car - so light. No electronic nannies. It talked to you if you were feeling lonely.

 

ss

[subysouth]

And when I say the line burst I mean the pedal dropped to the floor and I got zero brake. Pumped - dropped - zero brake out of the pedal. You could feel the piston hitting the end of travel in the MC in the pedal. I brought the car down from speed after swerving into the empty lane and later nursed it home on the hand brake. The MC was empty when I got it home to inspect it. I can not see the burst line directly but it appears the top of the line is what broke open probably pretty impressively based on how quickly it got rid of the fluid. It showered the underside of the car with fluid in that area.

 

ss

[sunny5280]

You can buy or make your own from strait lines too, if you wanted to. I think that somewhere in the basement of the car companies there is someone doing statistical anaylsis that says in 99.9% regular brake lines are fIne.... aka 1 in 1000 cars will have an issue with lines the rest will be fine and the extra 100 dollars in materials and labor is not needed because we want the car to cost x dollars in margin on a car that will be z dollars for the consumer. They also do cost benefit analysis that uses the average length of time someone keeps a new car that hasn't been removed from the road due to accidents, wear and tear, etc is around 6 to 15 years.

 

Doesn't Subaru have a commercial which states x% of their cars are still on the road after y number of years?

[RecklessWOT]

My car spent its first six years in CT before coming here.

 

There's your problem. CT just LOVES to cover their roads with mag chloride in the winter. I'll bet some lazy owner probably never washed the underside of their car, and presto rusty brake lines. That is not uncommon, that stuff eats metal. CT also has no safety inspections, so nobody would have caught it early.

 

I bet if you replace the bad line now, being in the south you'll never have to worry about it again.

[Guest]

CT also has no safety inspections, so nobody would have caught it early.

 

I am highly skeptical that any state mandated inspection would have ever caught something like that. Maybe in Germany.

[Wasted Potential]

NY safety requires a LEAK to fail. Doesn't matter if it is all damp and moist, needs to drop.

[subysouth]

Yea I guess opinions are varied here but I guess I would expect Subaru(one of the best cars made for the snow and ice - full stop) would have prepared the car for the salt that often comes with snow and ice. There are all sorts of metals that completely ignore salt. If they are building cars with buried systems that only hope to last past the warranty period - I guess I need to pick another manufacturer. This is my 5th Subaru but if they do not make this right - it will be the last. I have had two F250s(I daily drive an F250) that came used 7-10 years old from salt states without a speck of rust on the brake lines. This idea that an owner should be out in the driveway jacking their car up in the winter and washing salt out from under their car is unrealistic to me. Maybe next spring but it aint happening in the months of dead cold winter.

 

This recurring GM truck analogy isn't hitting home with me. If you like GM trucks you are unlikely to want to hear my opinion of them. I expect better out of Subaru. Maybe that is turning out to be an unrealistic expectation.

 

ss

[Wasted Potential]

After running into ABS sensor issues. I realized how finicky they really are... these Subarus are 'relatively' off roadable and hardcore... a.k.a. I would never take one off road if I planned to daily it haha.

[subysouth]

Yea when I say one of the best snow and ice vehicles I mean snowy and icy roads. IIRC the recipe for success there is moderate ground clearance, light weight, low CoG and awd/4wd.

 

It's a joke of a mud truck if that's what you mean tho - truly.

 

ss

[Wasted Potential]

I thought they would be more rally cross friendly (gravel and dirt) a lot of brittle things unexpected sadly

[subysouth]

So you might ask why does a person on the MS Gulf coast have a Subie. It corners really well in the torrential rain we see here real regularly and we have significant extended family near Knoxville mountain country. Win-win. Its the Swiss army knife of cars, especially the wagons. You can fit a 50 gallon water heater in the box in the back. Yea I have done it.

 

Oh yea and that driving skill in torrential rain netter me a careless driving ticket a year or so ago. Had to look that one up. Had the reckless one before. I'm saving money for that surgery tho.

 

ss

[subysouth]

I thought they would be more rally cross friendly (gravel and dirt) a lot of brittle things unexpected sadly

 

Yea true that too, off course those are really roads too, just not paved roads.

 

ss

[RecklessWOT]

This idea that an owner should be out in the driveway jacking their car up in the winter and washing salt out from under their car is unrealistic to me. Maybe next spring but it aint happening in the months of dead cold winter.

Car washes do the undercarriage as well. I wash my own car all summer long, but I'm at the car wash once a week in the winter. I know it seems crazy but that's really how it is up here. Not just for brake lines either, it will eat the floor, quarter panels, and strut towers, oil pan, and just about everything else you can imagine as well.

 

This recurring GM truck analogy isn't hitting home with me. If you like GM trucks you are unlikely to want to hear my opinion of them. I expect better out of Subaru. Maybe that is turning out to be an unrealistic expectation.

Lol my 30 year old truck with the spotless brake lines I mentioned is a Chevy. I owned one ford once, never again. It was the biggest nightmare pile of junk. Then again, everyone's opinion is different- I like women... (just messing with you man, to each their own). But that aside, rust in the north is not make specific, I see plenty of rusty fords AND chevys. And subarus and hondas and everything else. Cars just rust up here, salt, especially that liquid mag chloride, is terrible for metal.