Rusted Rear Brake Lines - Subaru won't honor their recall?

[covertrussian]

I'm much more North then subysouth, and we don't have that many undercarriage washing carswashes here, you really have to out of your way to find one. When I go to the car wash, I just wash the underside with soapy spray for a minute or so.

[subysouth]

Car washes do the undercarriage as well. I wash my own car all summer long, but I'm at the car wash once a week in the winter. I know it seems crazy but that's really how it is up here. Not just for brake lines either, it will eat the floor, quarter panels, and strut towers, oil pan, and just about everything else you can imagine as well.

 

 

Lol my 30 year old truck with the spotless brake lines I mentioned is a Chevy. I owned one ford once, never again. It was the biggest nightmare pile of junk. Then again, everyone's opinion is different- I like women... (just messing with you man, to each their own). But that aside, rust in the north is not make specific, I see plenty of rusty fords AND chevys. And subarus and hondas and everything else. Cars just rust up here, salt, especially that liquid mag chloride, is terrible for metal.

 

Yea but figure if you are washing it once a week you are suppressing the the damage from the salted roads what 10% overall? Not much of a plan IMO again - Subaru knows there is salt on the roads - they galvalume the unibody, the brake lines are equally as immovable and hard to service. Just use a better material or if you chose a crap material to save a penny own up to it when it doesn't work out.

 

The Ford Chevy debate could go on forever. I don't think Ford owners think Chevy drivers are gay so much as suffering from ahem shortcomings. GM trucks are considered poser trucks around here - you know like dude is saying "it's a real truck I swear - the dealer told me so." If you ever want to crawl under a modern F250+ you might be shocked. These trucks are built like tanks. The 150 and 250+ series trucks are worlds apart as well. The good ole days are right now I think. If you are saying you have a 1987 Chevy with spotless original brake lines that is truly impressive. That vehicle would be a pile of rust here, and based on what you are saying worse there. And on that point I should say vehicles rust here quite a bit. As a crow flies I am about 1.3 miles to the Gulf of Mexico, a big ole bowl of salt water. I lived on Pensacola Beach for several years, aluminum wheels look like a bowl of flour in about a year there. Beyond that we regularly enjoy about 1000% humidity and numerous 90+ degree days. All super encouraging for rust. I am stunned when I go to the Knoxville area and see a 1980s Ford Granada just driving around totally unrestored - just a daily driver. Here that car would be a long forgotten pile of rust. Low humidity up there I am told.

 

ss

[RecklessWOT]

I'm much more North then subysouth, and we don't have that many undercarriage washing carswashes here, you really have to out of your way to find one. When I go to the car wash, I just wash the underside with soapy spray for a minute or so.

 

Just about every car wash around here has the underside washes, even the cheap ones at gas stations. Sure I've seen ones without but usually not. For my truck I use the spray gun but the legacy is too low, I just pay extra for the ones that shoot up from the bottom. Around here it's essential. They seriously even hang signs out front that say "Winter is here! Fight rust, save your car from salt!" and stuff along those lines. Maybe there's so much more salt and snow up here that it's more of a priority than in Virginia. I know you guys get snow down there, but not nearly as common

 

Yea but figure if you are washing it once a week you are suppressing the the damage from the salted roads what 10% overall? Not much of a plan IMO again - Subaru knows there is salt on the roads - they galvalume the unibody, the brake lines are equally as immovable and hard to service. Just use a better material or if you chose a crap material to save a penny own up to it when it doesn't work out.

 

I know it seems terrible, but seriously that's how it is. Yeah it's a chore but it's not "10% delayed", see my previous posts where I stated that my 05 legacy's lines are still fine. Because I wash my car often, and the previous owner was absolutely meticulous. It makes a huge difference.

 

Working in garages over the years I would see cars come in that were 4-5 years old and already starting to get some real rust issues because the owners were slobs who clearly never once washed them. Trust me I've experienced it my whole life. I'm not trying to act like a know it all or anything I really hope you understand, but since you're from the south and I grew up in the state your car spent the first part of your life in I'm telling you that's really how it is. The brake lines are not immovable nor can they remotely be compared to the unibody (which also rots out super easy as well, galvanized metal is not magic). Yeah some of them are a PITA to get to and replace, but it's actually quite common to have to change brake lines up here.

 

I know it's hard to imagine, but yes things are different up here with cars, winter is really bad for them. Many people own two sets of wheels so they can run a separate set of tires in the winter, 10 year old pickup trucks have their beds fall off the frame because of rust, and brake lines are in fact a part that get changed out up here due to rust, largely caused by road salt. Sure Subaru has a bad design that easily allows that one spot to rust out much quicker than usual, but it's not like the material is some inferior crap that nobody else is using and "shame on them because they know people drive Subarus in the snow and they should use better material". All cars up here have the potential to rust brake lines, Subaru, Ford, Mercedes, it doesn't matter what you drive they all can rust. People who are really worried about it have their car undercoated or fluid filmed. The rest of us wash our cars, or deal with the headache when they rot out.

 

Long story short- now that your car is safe down south away from the land of major rust, once you replace those lines it should be fine. A lot of my family lives in Florida so I know what you're talking about with the salty air it'll make a lot of surface rust, but that's really nothing in comparison to having a bunch of thick crusty salt that you can literally chip off with your fingernail caked onto the undercarriage. That plus the road sand getting jammed into every crevice and turning into a muddy salty sponge to hold that moisture there longer. Believe it or not Connecticut (and much of New England) actually gets extremely humid in the summer as well, 90% humidity on a 90 degree is by no means unheard of in the summer, it's downright oppressive trying to breathe in that.

 

The lines Subaru used are not made from some extra shitty material, just that one main spot is prone to failing due to a bad design. It's the same stuff most other car manufacturers use nowadays. Which isn't as good as the stuff they put on trucks 40 years ago, but no worse than anyone else's these days.

 

The Ford Chevy debate could go on forever. I don't think Ford owners think Chevy drivers are gay so much as suffering from ahem shortcomings. GM trucks are considered poser trucks around here - you know like dude is saying "it's a real truck I swear - the dealer told me so." If you ever want to crawl under a modern F250+ you might be shocked. These trucks are built like tanks. The 150 and 250+ series trucks are worlds apart as well. The good ole days are right now I think. If you are saying you have a 1987 Chevy with spotless original brake lines that is truly impressive. That vehicle would be a pile of rust here, and based on what you are saying worse there. And on that point I should say vehicles rust here quite a bit. As a crow flies I am about 1.3 miles to the Gulf of Mexico, a big ole bowl of salt water. I lived on Pensacola Beach for several years, aluminum wheels look like a bowl of flour in about a year there. Beyond that we regularly enjoy about 1000% humidity and numerous 90+ degree days. All super encouraging for rust. I am stunned when I go to the Knoxville area and see a 1980s Ford Granada just driving around totally unrestored - just a daily driver. Here that car would be a long forgotten pile of rust. Low humidity up there I am told.

 

ss

 

I know man that's why I just said I was messing with you. Ford is doing some impressive stuff with their new trucks and I can respect that, a lot better than Chevy has been doing in recent years. That's funny though, around here all the poser wannabe truck guys drive Dodges. Chevy/GMC and Ford are the only trucks you'll actually see on a job site maybe save a Toyota or two. I've just never personally had good luck with Fords, and a lot of the Ford owners I know are complete douches. Not all of them, and I'm sure they think us Chevy guys are dicks too, it's just a rivalry thing at this point. Hah, and yes, the rustless unrestored '87 is a rare site around here too, people are always asking me about it literally almost every time I stop at a gas station with it. Honestly it spent a good chunk of its life in a low humidity environment as well, but since I got my hands on it and brought it here I wash it every single time I take it out in the winter, because of the ground clearance it's not hard at all. Really, every time. And it works, with the exception of some surface rust on bolt heads and whatnot, the frame is still black. I also took the care to POR-15 the inside of the wheel wells and the gas tank for good measure. It's a battle up here, just gotta stay on top of it. But yeah, don't hate on your Subaru too much man, just hate that Connecticut asshole that treated her car like shit.

[subysouth]

I hear you again I just expected Subaru to be above that cut line of manufacturers using impervious brake lines. I am pretty sure the wife's Honda has them. I am going to start making a list. I stand by what I said though, if Subaru does not repair it I am done with them. There are too many good cars out there now. I am seriously considering replacing this with a Buick. Yea I just said that.

 

I figured you guys might benefit from a pic of my situation. If you line looks like this - assume if it working now it won't be in short order. And trust me you have to get your camera seriously buried up in the car to see this. That crenulation on the line is warning enough, I have basically no flagrant rust on the line or the underbody itself. I would consider the rust on even a 10 year old southern only car minor - for the NE I would view it as below minor - and yet my rear brake line burst.

 

ss

 

Yea those Dodge guys are well - Dodge guys. I think the uber truck would be F250 chassis with a Cummins I6 with an Allison behind. I personally gave up on the diesels - too much maintenance for my use purposes. I have the 6.2L gas motor in my current truck and I love it.

Edited December 19, 2017 by subysouth

[covertrussian]

Just about every car wash around here has the underside washes, even the cheap ones at gas stations. Sure I've seen ones without but usually not. For my truck I use the spray gun but the legacy is too low, I just pay extra for the ones that shoot up from the bottom. Around here it's essential. They seriously even hang signs out front that say "Winter is here! Fight rust, save your car from salt!" and stuff along those lines. Maybe there's so much more salt and snow up here that it's more of a priority than in Virginia. I know you guys get snow down there, but not nearly as common

 

Most of VA is pretty warm & humid, basically an extension of North Carolina. Everything west of the first mountain peak (which is west of Charlottesville around my area) is much cooler (we are actually closer to climate zone 4 in HVAC speak).

 

We don't get a lot of snow sadly, mostly cold, but as soon as there is a forecast for 1/8" snow, salt is on the road. It's just 60F the next day after the snow so corrosion gets real bad.

 

 

The lines Subaru used are not made from some extra shitty material, just that one main spot is prone to failing due to a bad design. It's the same stuff most other car manufacturers use nowadays. Which isn't as good as the stuff they put on trucks 40 years ago, but no worse than anyone else's these days.

 

Yup agreed, the material they used seems mostly fine. I think the design it self is the problem. It's in a splash zone of the wheels, but not an easy to wash zone.

[subysouth]

pic

[covertrussian]

pic

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=259730&d=1513706997

 

That's rusty?

 

Here's rusty...

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257121&stc=1&d=1508820325

 

I replaced mine in October. While I agree with you and I was pissed at Subaru about it, it really wasn't that hard to replace them with Nicorp lines. Now I'm back to loving my car

[subysouth]

That's rusty?

 

Here's rusty...

 

http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=257121&stc=1&d=1508820325

 

I replaced mine in October. While I agree with you and I was pissed at Subaru about it, it really wasn't that hard to replace them with Nicorp lines. Now I'm back to loving my car

 

Yea that's what I am saying, after the dealer "checked" my car they were complimenting me on how great the underside looked given the origin state. My car was presented as a single female owner garage kept blah blah. I drank the koolaid and had it shipped in and it looked exactly as stated. It was indeed a single female owner always dealer serviced - they pulled the full maintenance logs at the local dealership. She paid her dues believe me. There is absolutely minimal rust under the car. That's why I am calling garbage on the brake line material. If you talk the talk with the tech guys in the garage they know it's garbage. They know Subaru knows it is garbage. The straight talk is Subaru is in damage control mode - not honest owning up mode.

 

And that is fine - we will wait and see how it pans out and I will vote with my wallet next go round. I have pitched these cars to friends and family on engineering and quality. I am fully responsible for at least four purchases beyond my own 5 purchases. I can reverse that position tomorrow and explain why.

 

ss

[covertrussian]

Can you take a picture of the origin of the leak? I'm really curious now.

 

Also I have a love hate relationship with Subaru. I love the AWD, love the fuel economy (for AWD), room/design and easy mod-ability, but stupid things like Banjo filters, failing turbos, tune, NA cars knocking on 87, head gasket leaks, etc., are really annoying. Makes it really hard to suggest one to a non-tinker.

[subysouth]

Can you take a picture of the origin of the leak? I'm really curious now.

 

Also I have a love hate relationship with Subaru. I love the AWD, love the fuel economy (for AWD), room/design and easy mod-ability, but stupid things like Banjo filters, failing turbos, tune, NA cars knocking on 87, head gasket leaks, etc., are really annoying. Makes it really hard to suggest one to a non-tinker.

 

I wish I could but I am 99.9% sure it is at the top of the line pictured right there and thusly impossible to get a pic of with the line on the car. The first line of disinformation I got at the dealership was the problem was at the distribution block and that was all that was covered in the recall. Not only is that fundamentally illogical, that is not what the recall says. I think these lines are failing in those gaps in the black coating at these plastic looms, there are 2 locations in the rear lines.

 

For clarity, other than the head machine work, I rebuilt the engine in my 1997 Legacy GT in my shed. I have been on the forums as far back as i-club - pre-NASIOC. I am not as active now - life and all but I am a Subaru old timer. I wrote a Subaru brake tech article that was published as far away as Japan(that netted a valuable friend there and allowed me to start buying parts direct from Japan) and got me props from DBA Brakes directly. Point being, I have more than a passing understanding of cars generally and how they work as pretty much all of us do here. But the Subaru dealer started the same exact place most dealers start when trying to avoid responsibility - BS. Again I guess I expected more. It may be that the car dealer part overcomes the quality car manufacturer part. IDK

 

ss

[JF1GG29]

 

This was the state of my rear passenger side line.

[Wasted Potential]

Well... Ya, I don't have any clever joke for that one. Those were screwed!

[covertrussian]

I wish I could but I am 99.9% sure it is at the top of the line pictured right there and thusly impossible to get a pic of with the line on the car. The first line of disinformation I got at the dealership was the problem was at the distribution block and that was all that was covered in the recall. Not only is that fundamentally illogical, that is not what the recall says. I think these lines are failing in those gaps in the black coating at these plastic looms, there are 2 locations in the rear lines.

 

For clarity, other than the head machine work, I rebuilt the engine in my 1997 Legacy GT in my shed. I have been on the forums as far back as i-club - pre-NASIOC. I am not as active now - life and all but I am a Subaru old timer. I wrote a Subaru brake tech article that was published as far away as Japan(that netted a valuable friend there and allowed me to start buying parts direct from Japan) and got me props from DBA Brakes directly. Point being, I have more than a passing understanding of cars generally and how they work as pretty much all of us do here. But the Subaru dealer started the same exact place most dealers start when trying to avoid responsibility - BS. Again I guess I expected more. It may be that the car dealer part overcomes the quality car manufacturer part. IDK

 

ss

 

Sorry didn't mean to question your credentials, it's just that's a weird failure, way different then the recall related failures. Those are around the 4 port block that I posted pictures of.

 

I would say you have a special case, and not the norm.

[08SpecB_DE]

Am I the only one who is laughing about replacing the Subaru with a Buick? If you're mad about the brake lines, please stick around so we can hear about the Buick. If you are going to trade it in, you should look at Toyota or Honda. If you plan on leasing or only having a few years, then Buick would be a fine choice.

 

I know it's off topic, but GM has been putting out some of the worst vehicles in the last 10-15 years. I'm amazed people still buy them thinking it was a good purchase.

[08SpecB_DE]

Am I the only one who is laughing about replacing the Subaru with a Buick? If you're mad about the brake lines, please stick around so we can hear about the Buick. If you are going to trade it in, you should look at Toyota or Honda. If you plan on leasing or only having a few years, then Buick would be a fine choice.

 

I know it's off topic, but GM has been putting out some of the worst vehicles in the last 10-15 years. I'm amazed people still buy them thinking it was a good purchase.

[Merc6]

Am I the only one who is laughing about replacing the Subaru with a Buick? If you're mad about the brake lines, please stick around so we can hear about the Buick. If you are going to trade it in, you should look at Toyota or Honda. If you plan on leasing or only having a few years, then Buick would be a fine choice.

 

I know it's off topic, but GM has been putting out some of the worst vehicles in the last 10-15 years. I'm amazed people still buy them thinking it was a good purchase.

 

Depends on what Buick you get. My 98 Buick was traded for a 13 Chevy which got traded for a 17 Honda.

 

I wonder how my lines will be when I crawl under there. This is what I have for my VA/Ohio car.

 

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k280/merc6/LGT/th_D9052FB3-DC07-4B0C-A224-7B82ECF3129E_zpsompt49nx.jpg

[08SpecB_DE]

Older Buicks usually blow out at the abs module under the air box assembly.

 

If that's a 2017 Honda.....ouch! They use way too much salt on the roads.

[subysouth]

Sorry didn't mean to question your credentials, it's just that's a weird failure, way different then the recall related failures. Those are around the 4 port block that I posted pictures of.

 

I would say you have a special case, and not the norm.

 

I didn't think you were questioning my credentials(I question my credentials btw - I have important looking papers with my name on it but I do really stupid stuff daily) and wasn't tooting my horn just seguing into the fact that I had a straight talk with a tech in the garage outside the service manager presence. Coupla minutes is all it takes to see where each other are and I think I got as straight an answer as was possible given the circumstances. He knows I take car of my car personally. It has been subtly modified from the outside but he obvious caught the changes from the underside. He likes my coilovers for instance.

 

Yea I have a pic of the block if I can find it - barely rusted at all. How does a distribution block rupture anyway?

 

ss

[subysouth]

Am I the only one who is laughing about replacing the Subaru with a Buick? If you're mad about the brake lines, please stick around so we can hear about the Buick. If you are going to trade it in, you should look at Toyota or Honda. If you plan on leasing or only having a few years, then Buick would be a fine choice.

 

I know it's off topic, but GM has been putting out some of the worst vehicles in the last 10-15 years. I'm amazed people still buy them thinking it was a good purchase.

 

Uh yea - check the stats: 2.0L(the "perfect" displacement for a four) Ecotec, AWD as close to a real sport wagon we will likely get from Buick. There is of course a better version they won't bring here. Technically I should call it an Opel probably. Lowish and long, more capacity than an Outback thank to the length. Length does not hurt mileage. The CoG is prolly 4 inches higher than the OB but an inline four is a f**k all of a lot easier to work on every day of the week. I will make it turn rest assured even at 4K+ lbs. It's in my opinion a well-engineered piece. And that's no joke.

 

ss

[Merc6]

Older Buicks usually blow out at the abs module under the air box assembly.

 

If that's a 2017 Honda.....ouch! They use way too much salt on the roads.

 

Mine went through an issue with head gaskets. All the shops wanted value of the car to fix it. At 17 years it was not worth it.

 

Nope it's the 05 LGT awaiting every recall known to man. Brake fuel and air bag. Dash isn't sticky but who knows how long it will stay in 1 piece when they go for the airbag. Funny thing is the Buick was less rusted than my LGT.

 

 

Uh yea - check the stats: 2.0L(the "perfect" displacement for a four) Ecotec, AWD as close to a real sport wagon we will likely get from Buick. There is of course a better version they won't bring here. Technically I should call it an Opel probably. Lowish and long, more capacity than an Outback thank to the length. Length does not hurt mileage. The CoG is prolly 4 inches higher than the OB but an inline four is a f**k all of a lot easier to work on every day of the week. I will make it turn rest assured even at 4K+ lbs. It's in my opinion a well-engineered piece. And that's no joke.

 

ss

 

Yeah that Opel with the dual brake lights. The brake lights are on the hatch and when the hatch opens they expose a 2nd set of brake lights. They have plenty of cars that could have been here but they wait till nobody wants them.

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Merc6

[Guest]

I'd take Mondeo Wagon (AWD) over the Opel/Buick any day:

 

 

[JF1GG29]

Wow, that actually looks pretty good!

[subysouth]

I'd take Mondeo Wagon (AWD) over the Opel/Buick any day:

 

If we were wishing yea I could build you a list of wagons we can't get here that I would take over the Buick/Opel. Those are all just fantasy unless you want to wait out the grey market import clause.

 

If you are a wagon junkie(I am,) you will go to the sketchiest neighborhood to get your fix. We have a handful of legit wagon choices here in the US of one of the most popular platforms elsewhere in the world. Anybody know why? Yea some studies have be done I hear.

 

ss

[Guest]

Well, we were talking about the Opel, just as unobtainable as the Mondeo.

 

Wagon junkie? You bet. I have two 05 LGTs and a 13 CTS-V. All manuals.

 

EDIT: I understand the context was the Buick. Anyhow, not interesting to me due to lack of the manual.

Edited December 22, 2017 by unclemat

[subysouth]

Well, we were talking about the Opel, just as unobtainable as the Mondeo.

 

Wagon junkie? You bet. I have two 05 LGTs and a 13 CTS-V. All manuals.

 

EDIT: I understand the context was the Buick. Anyhow, not interesting to me due to lack of the manual.

 

Yea no biggie, I was on the Buick but I understand your point. The list of cool rides we don't get here is so infuriating sometimes I avoid the topic.

 

Yea in the 05-09 Legacys the auto was not a really good option IMO but autos are getting better(more gears quicker shifting,) don't know about the one in the Buick but again just happy it exists as a wagon option. The wife avoids driving the manual anyway - so an auto would help the family overall in certain ways. I like the size, the engine and the fact it is pretty much a wagon. Buick dealer is 7 minutes away. The Subaru and Audi dealers - over and hour away.

 

ss

Edited December 22, 2017 by subysouth