npatel107 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 (edited) My 2011 Legacy 3.6R is unfortunately acting up once again. The car currently has only 48k miles. Over the last 2 years or so, different issues have led to replacement of the 5EAT valve body, transmission wiring harness, torque converter, and faulty coil pack have been replaced. No issues since August 2016 when the coil pack was replace. All of a sudden, I went to start the car last night and it does not stay on longer than 10 seconds. As soon as I start, the engine makes a knocking sound and the RPM keeps fluctuating between 500 and 2500 and the car eventually stalls. The tow truck driver couldn't even get it to stay on long enough to drive it onto the flatbed. The car is currently at a dealership in Long Island that has handled all the other issues in the past. Anyone have any ideas what could be the problem? Thanks in advance. -NP Edited August 25, 2017 by npatel107 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perscitus Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 Sounds rather odd. Perhaps something to do with the fuel pump and/or fuel delivery (given the age and location, less so mileage). Those fluctuating RPMs could point to a faulty TPS (Throttle position sensor) and/or some issue other electrical gremlins. Hopefully its not something ECU<->TCU related where the 5EAT TCU is getting into an odd feedback loop with the ECU based on whatever the valve body or TC are doing as the TCU attempts to control them at idle and cold startup. When did you last drive it without issue? MAF, MAP sensors, Intake, Exhaust all stock? When the dealership services the coil packs did they check the injectors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npatel107 Posted August 25, 2017 Author Share Posted August 25, 2017 Car was driving fine Wednesday. I filled the tank up on Tuesday. Faulty fuel pump was the only thing that crossed my mind so far. Honestly, I don't know if they checked the injectors. The spark plug and coil pack in cylinder 5 were replaced in August 2016 due to a misfire code that made the CEL pop up. Car is 100% stock. While it's in the shop, I asked them to take a look at a separate issue I've had for a few months. After a cold start, and only after a cold start, when I turn on the car there is a grinding noise. I haven't been able to have it looked at because it would require me to leave the car overnight. For the amount of miles I have on the car, I feel like it's had more than its fare share of issues. I got a good deal on it because it sat at a dealership for almost a year (its a 2011 model, I bought it brand new memorial day weekend 2012). I wonder if that contributes in any way to these issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxrider28 Posted August 25, 2017 Share Posted August 25, 2017 The cold start grinding is most likely the starter sticking and is very common on 5th gens. I've noticed in all the pictures I've seen that all the starters come out very very dirty on all 5th gen models MT or AT. The sound is caused by the starter gear not coming off the flywheel fast enough due to the dust and grime drying out the lubricated areas. Cleaning and greasing the bendix seems to he the fix for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Only running for 10 seconds can also be immobilizer acting up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npatel107 Posted August 28, 2017 Author Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) Dealership just called and said mass air flow sensor was absolutely disgusting. Said after cleaning it, the car seems to be running fine. However he did say that before they cleaned it, there were pending codes showing misfires on all cylinders. Would you recommend just replacing the sensor at this point? (The cleaning alone will run about $150 per the dealership, but I do have 3rd party extended that will kick in after a $250 deductible so replacement would only cost me an extra $100 at this point) Also, does it make sense that this would have been the cause for the problem and the misfire codes? No word yet on the cold start grinding, he said they will look at that tomorrow morning. Edited August 28, 2017 by npatel107 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perscitus Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 (edited) Might have been, impossible to tell without before/during/after data logs with appropriate fields and decent sampling rate. See how she goes and if you continue to get misfires and startup issues once you have her back. You can also just clean it yourself using CRC MAF Cleaner: https://www.amazon.com/CRC-05110-Mass-Sensor-Cleaner/dp/B000J19XSA/ref=sr_1_2?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1503948675&sr=1-2&keywords=CRC+MAF+cleaner Or buy a new Denso sensor. Far cheaper and actually a tad better than the OEM (re-branded Denso) unit: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004J378G8/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Start-up grind = 100% starter motor as foxrider said. All too common Subaru issue. Edited August 28, 2017 by Perscitus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nads Posted August 28, 2017 Share Posted August 28, 2017 Damn I'll clean it for $40 and still feel like I'm ripping you off...I wouldn't replace it. Unless its damaged there isn't any gain. I'd be surprised if there wasn't misfire codes with a dirty MAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npatel107 Posted August 29, 2017 Author Share Posted August 29, 2017 Unfortunately I had the car towed straight to the dealership. They already diagnosed and cleaned it so the bill is already at $150. I'll be sure to clean it when I change the air filter every 6 months going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nads Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 What air filter are you running? With paper, it shouldn't get dirty to the point of these kinds of issues. Be sure you get the filter in and sealed, that damn air box is one of the worst I've seen for servicing so I could see how things could get misaligned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npatel107 Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 That's a great point. I use the Wix 49012. I last changed it about a year ago. I remember it being a PITA so I'm sure there's a good change it wasn't 100% secured. I bet the dealer didn't even take a look at that because they didn't have an answer when I asked how the MAF could've gotten so dirty like that. I'll toss a new filter in there this weekend and be sure the box is secured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npatel107 Posted August 31, 2017 Author Share Posted August 31, 2017 Also, should finally be getting the car back tomorrow. They're replacing the starter and apparently the control arm bushings were shot too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DugsSin Posted August 31, 2017 Share Posted August 31, 2017 I found taking the entire air box out made the air filter change soooooo much easier once you know how to get to all the bolts and such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 It is not a user friendly design at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npatel107 Posted September 11, 2017 Author Share Posted September 11, 2017 Assuming when I last changed the air filter (June 2016), I must not have properly secured the box. I have a new Wix filter sitting here, but just told the dealer to replace it while they had the car and would be opening the box anyway. $25 for the filter itself and luckily I was able to convince them not to charge labor. Anyway, end result is new MAF, new (remanufactured) starter, and new control arm bushings. The car runs great now, took it on a couple hundred mile trip this weekend. The car did get rear-ended on Friday, but that's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nads Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 (edited) The car did get rear-ended on Friday, but that's a different story. Just when you think you're out of the woods.... Edited September 12, 2017 by nads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene Onegin Posted September 11, 2017 Share Posted September 11, 2017 With you in it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npatel107 Posted September 12, 2017 Author Share Posted September 12, 2017 Yup. Luckily low speed/low impact. I was stopped in traffic on the Queensboro Bridge and a 17 year old in a brand new X1 bumped into me. No crack, just a scratch across the bumper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npatel107 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 (edited) And I'm back. Car started idling rough and the Christmas lights popped up on the dash (CEL, Cruise, Brake, VDC) last Sunday. I was in NJ at the time and didn't want to risk stalling out on a bridge or tunnel so just left it at my brother's place and had it towed to a dealership in NJ. Diagnosis: misfire in cyl 6 resulting from a corroded coil pack. From what I've read, these coil packs aren't usually faulty. The car has about 52k miles on it and this is the second failed coil. I asked the dealer to take a look at the others and turns out they are all corroded. 3rd party extended warranty company said they will need to send someone to look at it before authorizing payment since this isn't a normal issue. Any ideas as why/how all the coil packs could have corroded? I'm just glad the dealer actually looked at the others when I asked otherwise I'd probably be having the same issue again in a few months. Edit: I also asked him to make sure the plugs are OK and he said they are. Edited March 1, 2018 by npatel107 additional info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raider600 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Ouch. good luck. I have a 2010 3.6 I guess I should keep an eye on things there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npatel107 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 Ouch. good luck. I have a 2010 3.6 I guess I should keep an eye on things there too. I wouldn't worry. Abnormal issues have a way of finding me. Bought the car in June of 2012 so it was a 2011 leftover that sat for a long time. I wonder if this contributes to the weird issues I've had. Every time it goes in to the shop I debate if I should just sell and move into a new one, but when's it's running normal, it's still a great car. Only 52k miles and no payment. Hard to give that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cww516 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 It's not common, but it's certainly not unheard of for them to corrode to the point of failing. Just being rusty isn't an issue, it's when the thin steel plates start to peel apart that you start to have issues. Your other could may be fine, so if they aren't going to be covered under warranty, leave 'em alone. If the warranty company agrees to spring for a full set, well, I wouldn't turn them down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 I would say its common enough expecially on the newer models, the old ones seemed to hold up better to the environment. Maybe it would be good PM to get some type of coating for the new coil packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npatel107 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 It's not common, but it's certainly not unheard of for them to corrode to the point of failing. Just being rusty isn't an issue, it's when the thin steel plates start to peel apart that you start to have issues. Your other could may be fine, so if they aren't going to be covered under warranty, leave 'em alone. If the warranty company agrees to spring for a full set, well, I wouldn't turn them down. That's the plan. I have a $250 deductible so if they don't cover the others, they won't even end up paying anything since the dealer told me about $200 for the one. If they don't cover the rest though, I will probably just take care of the rest myself when the weather warms up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npatel107 Posted March 2, 2018 Author Share Posted March 2, 2018 Adjuster went to look at it today and said the failure is due to rust, which is an exclusion to the policy. So for now I am just going to have the dealer replace the one that failed and move on. I did ask him to check the coil for cylinder 6 since that was replaced about 18 months ago. If that one is rusted as well, should I be concerned that there is a bigger issue that needs to be addressed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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