300 WHP Goal

[freaksavior]

Might want to consider a valve body upgrade too if you're wanting to push 300whp off the 5eat.

[Killuminati206]

Thanks for alle the feedback. My main concert is with 120,000 miles and all ready have been dynoed is it safe to dyno again on engine with more power.

[Max Capacity]

I went with the vf52 at 142,000 miles. The car was using a little oil at that time. At 154,000 miles I decided I wanted to keep the car so I put a ej257 short block in it. See my click here link.

 

The car has 241,000 miles now, it still puts a smile on my face every time I drive it.

[Phate]

Agree with Max, the VF-52 is much smoother than the VF40/46. Significantly less of a torque wall.

 

But, I made the mistake of driving a Porsche turbo and a new M4. My car feels so slow now. Sure it's "fast", but it's not "holy, shit I can't accelerate because this car is too fast fast."

 

On saturday night my friend had me do some rippers in his 2014 Focus ST. Stock other than an intake and a tune, but it felt so completely different from my stage 2 legacy. While the VF40 just hits you with a huge torque wall that rocks the entire car back and puts you back in the seat before tapering off at higher revs, the ST came onto boost gradually and just pulled more and more as you spun it out.

 

I definitely see a VF52 in my car's future, and have been wondering if the car would actually be more enjoyable to drive if you intentionally leave power on the table in the midrange to make the powerband feel more linear up top. I think I'd be pretty happy with the exact same torque I have now, but held another 1000rpm higher.

 

Worst case it sucks and you just have a second file with more midrange torque.

[fahr_side]

a couple tuners on Nasioc say they (Dom1.5) are too small for the 2.5 block

 

 

 

There is no magic bullet. Any turbo that's matched to create no restriction or rising EGT at high revs is just going to feel too slow to spool on a street-driven car for most owners. It's always a compromise. I think the perfect match from a pure performance perspective is a GT3071R or EFR7163. Start going bigger and spool rpm rises faster than peak power does.

 

IMO, a VF-52 or a TD05H-16G is what these cars should have come with from the factory. They feel just right; very smooth, responsive and controllable. I only went bigger because I already had a built motor and the devil made me do it. You don't need a lot of supporting mods to run at 300whp on these.

[Phate]

IMO, a VF-52 or a TD05H-16G is what these cars should have come with from the factory. They feel just right; very smooth, responsive and controllable. I only went bigger because I already had a built motor and the devil made me do it. You don't need a lot of supporting mods to run at 300whp on these.

 

Am I really cheating myself by much if I run a VF52 or 16G (basically whichever one has the best chance of pulling closer to redline) on stock fueling with a stock top mount?

 

Would it be worth it at all to put a fuel pump and injectors in to play with E85 with a turbo in that range?

[fahr_side]

No, either one is okay on the stock TMIC really. If you want to hold boost a bit higher toward redline get the 16G. OTOH the P18 exhaust housing on the VF-52 is really well suited to that power range. Back in the day, BNR made 16G hybrids with those. Now he's using a more generic 7 or 8cm2 housing. The P18 is right in the middle at about 7.4cm2

 

If I put these three in order, they'd come out like this.

 

Best spool and response, instaboost: TD05H-16G in 7cm2

Middle ground: VF-52

Best high rpm power potential, slowest spool and response: TD05H-16G in 8cm2

 

Yes, running E85 will get you a good bump in torque and a decent increase in peak power. If I could get it, I'd be running E85 and supporting that with appropriate pump and injector. Hell, if I could get E85 I may never have gone beyond the 18G. The other nice thing with E85 is that you can get away with a slightly smaller hotside for a given compressor without pushing EGTs through the roof. On E85 I might lean toward the 16G in 7cm2 for that rod-bending low-rev torque without sacrificing the top-end. But don't blame me if you bend a rod.

 

Oh, be sure an add a decent equal-length header to the mix. That's 20whp right there with no down-side. FWIW I was running at about 320whp on my BNR 16G with a stock intake, Tomei ELH, stock injectors, STi fuel pump and Perrin TMIC. Totally reliable. I just didn't have the patience to test long-term reliability to the extent Astronaut Max did

[xtea]

I think the perfect match from a pure performance perspective is a GT3071R or EFR7163.

 

On June 1st my tuner is going to break my engine or hit 450hp on the efr 6758, but thats on e85 not pump. 7163 spools the same as dom 1.5 on single avcs engines with 5spd based on 3268 hours of researching dyno plots.

 

In daily driving I find myself going wot far less then I did with the vf52 because I want to come home to hug my kids.

 

I still might try out a 7163 someday if anyone wants apples to apples comparison.

[fahr_side]

On June 1st my tuner is going to break my engine or hit 450hp on the efr 6758, but thats on e85 not pump.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it.

7163 spools the same as dom 1.5 on single avcs engines with 5spd based on 3268 hours of researching dyno plots.

It's a very impressive turbo. The turbine is considerably larger than the usual 60mm GT30 turbine, let alone the cut-down 56.5mm version in the Dom.

[xtea]

I wouldn't be surprised if he broke it either.

[birdmayne]

I wouldn't be surprised if he broke it either.

 

I love how cavalier you are about the whole idea. I'm stressing about that and my all built block isn't even done yet. haha

[1-3-2-4]

No, either one is okay on the stock TMIC really. If you want to hold boost a bit higher toward redline get the 16G. OTOH the P18 exhaust housing on the VF-52 is really well suited to that power range. Back in the day, BNR made 16G hybrids with those. Now he's using a more generic 7 or 8cm2 housing. The P18 is right in the middle at about 7.4cm2

 

If I put these three in order, they'd come out like this.

 

Best spool and response, instaboost: TD05H-16G in 7cm2

Middle ground: VF-52

Best high rpm power potential, slowest spool and response: TD05H-16G in 8cm2

 

Yes, running E85 will get you a good bump in torque and a decent increase in peak power. If I could get it, I'd be running E85 and supporting that with appropriate pump and injector. Hell, if I could get E85 I may never have gone beyond the 18G. The other nice thing with E85 is that you can get away with a slightly smaller hotside for a given compressor without pushing EGTs through the roof. On E85 I might lean toward the 16G in 7cm2 for that rod-bending low-rev torque without sacrificing the top-end. But don't blame me if you bend a rod.

 

Oh, be sure an add a decent equal-length header to the mix. That's 20whp right there with no down-side. FWIW I was running at about 320whp on my BNR 16G with a stock intake, Tomei ELH, stock injectors, STi fuel pump and Perrin TMIC. Totally reliable. I just didn't have the patience to test long-term reliability to the extent Astronaut Max did

The station near me sells E85 I'm too scared to try it I'm not sure of the ratio mix or any of that.

[xtea]

You can get a tester for cheap on amazon. My shop runs their cars year round on the same e85 tune. Af learning should be able to compensate for different blends no?

[fahr_side]

You can get a tester for cheap on amazon. My shop runs their cars year round on the same e85 tune. Af learning should be able to compensate for different blends no?

 

 

 

I think in most places the blend drops to no lower than 70% in winter. Yes, the fuel trims can handle that without throwing a CEL. If you are going to run one tune year-round you want to tune on the lowest octane fuel that you'll have to deal with.

[Rhitter]

@Fahr, curious what your thoughts are on this, it essentially makes the DOM1.5 seem worthless too me (at least with the 10 cm)

 

[Gex]

The Dom3.5 is bigger in size. So of course it'll make the same if not more power at lower boost pressure. That 10CM hotside is doing the 1.5 no favors in the spool department. That's why i went 3" with the 8cm hotside. Much quicker spool.

 

I am guessing that stock motor didn't last to long on that 3.5XTR.

 

CMPIND CMPEXD TRBIND TRBEXD FLOW

 

Blouch Dom 1.5 XT-R 53.00 71.00 56.50 51.70 49.0

 

VS

 

Blouch Dom 3.5 XT-R 57.00 76.00 64.00 58.60 58.0

[xtea]

Different headers on those turbos. No one beleives me but I think killer bee header is only worth it at 450+hp. Every other header thats el has smaller volume and spools a little earlier with a little more torque under 400hp. Above 450 the killer be seems to have an edge or atleast flow more up top.

[shralp]

apologies on the thread jack but can you expound on that Xtea? The main reason was only going to opt for a Killer B when I'm ready to chuck the stock manifolds wasn't necessarily because they would make more power over everyone else but rather it was because my notion that Killer B had the build quality to last over everyone else's. Just hear too many stories about headers cracking over time. Not sure if the Kool-aid I'm drinking is correct though

[fahr_side]

The Dom3.5 is bigger in size. So of course it'll make the same if not more power at lower boost pressure. That 10CM hotside is doing the 1.5 no favors in the spool department. That's why i went 3" with the 8cm hotside. Much quicker spool.

 

 

 

 

 

@Fahr, curious what your thoughts are on this, it essentially makes the DOM1.5 seem worthless too me (at least with the 10 cm)

 

 

That's not a typical result. Usually the 1.5xtr models spool earlier. Response is also very different between these turbos, even between the 8 and 10cm2 housings on the 1.5xtr. You can't see transient response on a dyno plot.

 

Different headers on those turbos. No one beleives me but I think killer bee header is only worth it at 450+hp. Every other header thats el has smaller volume and spools a little earlier with a little more torque under 400hp. Above 450 the killer be seems to have an edge or atleast flow more up top.

 

 

KillerB quality is right there with the best. I agree the primary tubes are sized for higher power levels and spool may suffer slightly as a result. If I were shooting for 500whp I'd own this header, or a Full Race.

 

FWIW I've have used a Tomei ELH for five years or so now, and probably close to 90,000km. It supports my 423whp fine, no difference in spool vs. stock when hot, and is still solid. Nowhere near as sexy but great value for money IMO.

[xt2005bonbon]

^423whp huh. I wish I was there .

[fahr_side]

^423whp huh. I wish I was there .

 

 

 

That's with meth, and pushing 22-23psi, and I broke lots of things getting here

[Phate]

No, either one is okay on the stock TMIC really. If you want to hold boost a bit higher toward redline get the 16G. OTOH the P18 exhaust housing on the VF-52 is really well suited to that power range. Back in the day, BNR made 16G hybrids with those. Now he's using a more generic 7 or 8cm2 housing. The P18 is right in the middle at about 7.4cm2

 

If I put these three in order, they'd come out like this.

 

Best spool and response, instaboost: TD05H-16G in 7cm2

Middle ground: VF-52

Best high rpm power potential, slowest spool and response: TD05H-16G in 8cm2

 

Ah okay, so it's less the compressor running out of steam on the high end, and more the turbine housing choking things off in this size/power range. I do rather like my VF40's instaboost, so I'm thinking a 7cm 16g would be the best fit for me, unless a VF52 would pull better up top (although I know I'm starting to be fueling-limited there on stock injectors).

 

 

There are only a couple of decent sources of E85 in my area, but fortunately one of them is a mile from my house. That one is a bit more abstract as far as actually wanting to do it or not currently (since pump + injectors + tune is a decently expensive jump).

 

I know that an ELH is objectively better and makes the engine happier while making more power, but I'm not sure I can give up the sound my car currently has.

 

Thanks for indulging my questions by the way. Trying to put a bit more thought into all of this than "I'm gonna throw a VF52 on it"

[fahr_side]

Ah okay, so it's less the compressor running out of steam on the high end, and more the turbine housing choking things off in this size/power range.

On the 7cm2 housing the exhaust side is choked before the compressor falls down. In 8cm2 it's the opposite.

 

I do rather like my VF40's instaboost, so I'm thinking a 7cm 16g would be the best fit for me, unless a VF52 would pull better up top (although I know I'm starting to be fueling-limited there on stock injectors).

I think it will come out about the same, with the 16G in 7cm2 spooling slightly faster.

There are only a couple of decent sources of E85 in my area, but fortunately one of them is a mile from my house. That one is a bit more abstract as far as actually wanting to do it or not currently (since pump + injectors + tune is a decently expensive jump).

It's worth the investment

I know that an ELH is objectively better and makes the engine happier while making more power, but I'm not sure I can give up the sound my car currently has.

 

Are you modding for power or ricer points? This is illogical. At 300whp you can run the stock mufflers, so exhaust sound should not be a consideration. There is also the element of doubt in hitting your power target without the header. Plenty of people come up a little short on a VF-52 on gas with the stock manifold, like 280whp or so.

[xt2005bonbon]

So Fahrside, one can really get a 20whp bump just by swapping the exhaust headers? That's quite a nice bump in power.

[Phate]

Are you modding for power or ricer points? This is illogical. At 300whp you can run the stock mufflers, so exhaust sound should not be a consideration. There is also the element of doubt in hitting your power target without the header. Plenty of people come up a little short on a VF-52 on gas with the stock manifold, like 280whp or so.

 

I did put an SPT catback on the car for primarily ricer reasons, but I love the way this car sounds.

 

Fully aware it's illogical, but I have less of a specific power goal in mind other than "more than I have now" and am more interested in the powerband I end up with (keep most of my current low-midrange, but actually keep pulling out through to redline). Mostly I don't want to feel like I'm short-shifting it all the time.

 

It's sounding like either the 52 or the 16g with the small exhaust housing will put me about where I want to be, so it's leaning towards the 16g but probably coming down to which one I come across for the right price first.