Code Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 looks like a nicely swain-coated KillerB holy header? That guy is serious... gets more bang for the buck out of that than any TMIC or FMIC difference! Good point to make here. I AM SERIOUS. This is something that everyone should think about when choosing FMIC vs TMIC (or any parts really). How serious are you? I bought this car brand new with the intention of modding and owning it for the rest of my life. This mentality holds true today. Each part that I chose was done so with longevity and the ability to support "the next phase" and beyond. Currently I'm running a 93octane AVO380 but my setup is built to run e85 (e85 tune planned for April) and will support a larger turbo when the time comes(except my stock trans will likely grenade itself at that power) I daily drove the FMIC for YEARS with the vf46. It was absolutely unnecessary and definitely changed the way the car drove but it wasn't unpleasant at all. Subconsciously I just learned to "drive around" the boost response and after a few hundred miles it just becomes the personality of the car. If I were expecting to stay on the stock turbo or something in that general range (40lbs ish) I would have gone TMIC and been happy. Back when I had to make this choice there were only a few (Perrin and AVO) topmounts that were made for this car, and even those had questionable fitment and created headaches. There are much nicer options today. To each his own, but consider your long term goals. "Striving to better, oft we mar what's well." - Bill Shakespeare - car modder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Donated Too sigmafour Posted January 25, 2017 I Donated Too Share Posted January 25, 2017 beautifully put. Love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oODanKNesSOo Posted January 25, 2017 Author Share Posted January 25, 2017 Great post! Ultimately, this thread has hardened my resolve to get the RacerX. To anyone who Google's what I did and happens upon this thread, granted probably won't make it THIS far.... at the end of the day do you. What ever you want for the car, for the future, don't let anyone talk you out of it. Tmic vs fmic is a tired debate.. should read, tmic or fmic choose your favorite! For me, it boils down to RacerX or GrimmSpeed. Both come with extra piping should you choose to go wrx style turbo in the future- and THAT is a big plus for me. Also, both are great intercoolers for what they are. For me, I like the look of a Fmic, and RacerX is on version SEVEN!! That shows an unwavering belief in his product, and the smarts to make improvements as problems arise. Fantastic! I also enjoy the work... when the kit gets here it will be like Christmas, and the install, though not nearly as quick as a tmics 4 bolts, I also look forward to. Luckily, I'm going to be adding quite the grocery's list at one time for my tuner... so no matter what the car will have a different personality after install. Thanks for all the input guys, cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 Just one correction, it's "should you go STI style." WRX/Legacy GT is the same fitment . My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oODanKNesSOo Posted January 26, 2017 Author Share Posted January 26, 2017 Just one correction, it's "should you go STI style." WRX/Legacy GT is the same fitment . Thanks for that.. I seriously pondered typing STi... as I know we share fitment with some wrxs, I currently run a TD04 off a wrx, and well the vf52 is too! Only... isn't it just a small year span that we share this style of fitment? I haven't researched stock offerings on wrxs vs STi.. I guess an upgraded turbo makes sense. I had assumed some non sti came with that fancy red intake manifold though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted January 26, 2017 Share Posted January 26, 2017 2008-2014 we share the the same style turbo. The VF52 was OEM for the 2009-2014 WRX. But by "style" I am referring to the way the turbo connects to the intercooler So - WRX / LGT (FXT too I think) style is - of course this is only for a given year range (2008-2014 WRX) STI style is Basically any turbo that fits a 2008-2014 WRX will fit our cars. And any turbo that fits an STI, will fit our cars, as long as we have the appropriate piping (FMICs usually have them, for TMIC we are a little more limited with off the shelf options - which is why the Grimmspeed TMIC is so appealing.) My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon22 Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 Before the fire engines get started for all the flaming and heat I'll likely get- YES I'VE USED THE SEARCH FEATURE! On here and google alike!!! Most threads, on here and Nasioc, are the same ol "you don't need a fmic" "overkill" "turbo lag" "you're an idiot" "fmic is for 1320 racers only!" Etc etc... I've read more then a book about all the current options for our cars. I'm stuck feeling that Perrin is the best bang for the buck afa tmic goes; however the GS unit takes the cake- and the wallet. Process west being somewhere near, but harder to find and issues with fitment seem to be inevitable. I prefer to be a buy right buy once type.. which would point to Grimm speed. BUT, I'm having a hard time justifying dropping 1K on a top mount! While it will retain its resale value, I just don't see myself being content with the vf52 in the long run- nor a top mount. So, that brings us to the oh so scary front mount. Being smack dab in front of the car it's heat dispersion/ resistance to heat soak- is frankly undeniably better then the stock located tmic. A lot of the hate for them is from claims of turbo lag, which with more piping (the curves in particular) seems reasonable, and the appearance of the big inter cooler up front. I've also read a good tuner can combat that turbo lag to nearly be rid of it. In theory, once it's seen any boost and is pressurized once, won't it be sufficiently filled to deliver boost when applied? I'm far from a physicist, nor am a Subaru genius.. I have a few years flat rate Tech experience on Diesel trucks- all of which ran front mount intercoolers. As does the 10psi Honda next door! Lmmfao As for looks... Not only do I not mind the tank out in the open, in fact, I LIKE the look of a front mount... and while I don't like ricey, big spoilers, negative camber LMAO!!, and chose the LGT because I'm a 31 year old with three kids and not in high school... I'm also a proud Subaru owner. Now I know we all are here and we all have our affliction to our Legacys for our own reasons. However, unlike some of my fellow Leggo owners, I'm not going for the "stealth" "sleeper" "stock" look. Class AND grit I suppose... maybe when I make a build thread I'll dub it "NesSsDanK Mullet"! I prefer the lgt over the wrx, but not so much to hide that it's a bad ass Subaru!! I prefer not to be mistaken as a Nissan or a Fusion, so a front mount screaming turbo Scooby, is fine by me, and actually my preference. So, after the long winded rant- I'm actively seeking hard data confirming I'd be leaving more then a negligible amount on the table going RacerX fmic over the Perrin tmic. I know it is an unfair battle of fmic vs tmic, as Grimmspeed is the king of top mount... but like I said, Im not gonna shell out a grand on a tmic. So price vs price that is the best comparison IMHO. Love to see any links supporting factual data of controlled tests with identical variables on the RacerX fmic (uses smaller cores and piping from other setups so as to quicken the pressurizing) vs the Perrin Tmic. Any and all proof of the dreaded turbo lag, pressure drop, and lower boost levels is what I would've to see. But dynos aside, please guide me to the light- and back it up with real life facts. Seems most the nay sayers are nearly 100% hear say, and no one has taken the time to actually do the math? Correct me if I'm wrong... just looking for the down low Cheers! FMIC all the way!! I seriously hate just the idea of a TMIC Extreme Turbo Systems makes a kit for LGT's. Ive bought 4 FMIC kits, 2 Downpipes, 1 exhaust manifold and some other stuff from ETS over the years. They build the highest quality parts, great customer service and ship very fast. The LGT kit is $1,289 right now. Usually buy my stuff from ETS during their annual 'Black Friday' sale and save 15-30%. I plan on buying the LGT kit this Nov-Dec. http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/ETS-200y-2009-Subaru-Legacy-GT-Front-Mount-Intercooler-Kit.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oODanKNesSOo Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 I've been seeing a lot of ets around the webs lately.... only that link doesn't work :/ I went with RacerXs fmic.. install took some persuading, but the kit it's self is top notch for half the price of ETS. The IC is seriously as big as you can fit without doing something to the crash beam... interested to see what ets produces, and what it costs double Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpmarky Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 If max power is more important to you, go FMIC. If not, go TMIC. I ran an FMIC with my 18g on e85 for about a year. The extra 2-3 psi of boost was fun, but the delay in throttle response was annoying for me. Like others mentioned you can learn to drive around it, but having to blip the throttle a half second sooner before downshifting gave me TMIC fomo. It felt like I was driving an automatic car, stepping on the gas and waiting for the car to downshift. After switching back to a PW tmic, the instant response felt really good and made me happy to switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oODanKNesSOo Posted March 9, 2017 Author Share Posted March 9, 2017 From what I gather any delay in throttle response should be able to be compensated for by the tuner. Meh, going from td04 on 93oct to vf52 on e85... I'm sure I'll only feel more power. The quicker spoil off the line might be a brief difference... but when the higher psi hits and extra tq, it'll be a wash imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpmarky Posted March 9, 2017 Share Posted March 9, 2017 sounds like FMIC is for you, have fun good luck with the build! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oODanKNesSOo Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 Thanks man! Always have loved the look of them on a scoob... and imo pros out weighed the cons... plus, Chevy Cobalt SS comes STOCK with fmic!!! All the naysayers are tripping IMHO, nothing wrong with either option... saying one is bad is just silly, I think. Rock on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LatentWagen Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 Chevy Cobalt SS comes STOCK with fmic!!! So did my 1992 Volvo station wagon. FMIC is not a big deal, it's just a way to mount an intercooler... Have you seen how long the manifolds and piping are on a Subaru? Versus a transverse motor like an Evo or SRT-4, or Cobalt SS (lol)? That's why those cars came stock with FMIC setups, much shorter piping. LW's spec. B / YT / IG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon22 Posted March 10, 2017 Share Posted March 10, 2017 I've been seeing a lot of ets around the webs lately.... only that link doesn't work :/ I went with RacerXs fmic.. install took some persuading, but the kit it's self is top notch for half the price of ETS. The IC is seriously as big as you can fit without doing something to the crash beam... interested to see what ets produces, and what it costs double Yes a RacerXs fmic's are significantly better then a stock tmic or even a Grimmspeed tmic for that matter. For Christ sake the core is mounted in front of your radiator and prob dissipates heat 5x faster/better than any TMIC. Plus engine, turbo and exhaust heat wont rise up right through the core. God I hate TMIC's!! I have no personal experience with RacerXs and/or the fmic's they sell. After looking at the website and many pictures online it seems these kits are mass produced probably Chinese. Judging by my personal experience with cheap mass produced FMIC's I doubt this one utilizes a name brand "high quality" core and the silicone couplers and t-bolt's are likely cheap-o units. I bet this kit works well up to 450awhp. Saw that RacerXs claims customers make 600hp with these kits. I wonder if that's 600hp at the crank or 600awhp? I'd love to see some comparisons against Grimmspeed tmic or other FMIC's on the market. I am a 'buy it right, buy it once' type of guy and my LGT will probably NEVER make 400awhp. But whenever it comes time to upgrade my intercooler I'll buy ETS's kit (if they are still producing them ) during Black Fri sale for roughly $1k shipped. You get what you pay for in life and ETS's kits are top top notch where RacerXs cant be for $650. Just my .02 Hopefully this link works. If not Extremeturbosystems.com > Subaru > 05-12 Legacy > http://www.extremeturbosystems.com/Legacy-GT-Intercoolers/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oODanKNesSOo Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 itsme might chime in, but he has built this kit from the ground up, with about 7 revisions to enhance his product. He is one of US, let enthusiast/board member. Which is a plus. I wouldn't call the quality cheapo by any means. Couplers are same material I see in my mishimoto IC to IM coupler... t bolts better then a crappy hose clamp.. and the core is solid man. Biggest that will fit without major modification to crash beam.... as for where it's made? To call it Chinese as a snub is silly. I'd bet ecs gets theirs from across sea's too! I've helped install lesser cores, for what ever that's worth. I can't argue with get what you pay for.. but he also isn't a large company like Perrin... so there's supply and demand to consider. At 650$, it's a cheaper alternative, but I'd hardly call the kit "cheap". It's a solid upgrade and we'll configured kit. Might not have the best materials the world of racing has ever produced.... but it's shit tons better then an eBay core, and the plumbing is perfectly designed. 450awhp is a pipe dream for my goals... I'd have to fully build a new block and heads first, and at that point the 5 speed would need to go. So before I max out this fmic, I'm looking at upwards of 8grand not counting what turbo it'd take to get that power!! If I ever take her that far, another 1K to upgrade will be chump change! Good thing about this kit, and it's buy price, is it retains its value... another plus should I ever look to replace it. I'm happy... that's all that matters at the eod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oODanKNesSOo Posted March 10, 2017 Author Share Posted March 10, 2017 Ets kit IS super SEXY tho!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talon22 Posted March 13, 2017 Share Posted March 13, 2017 itsme might chime in, but he has built this kit from the ground up, with about 7 revisions to enhance his product. He is one of US, let enthusiast/board member. Which is a plus. I wouldn't call the quality cheapo by any means. Couplers are same material I see in my mishimoto IC to IM coupler... t bolts better then a crappy hose clamp.. and the core is solid man. Biggest that will fit without major modification to crash beam.... as for where it's made? To call it Chinese as a snub is silly. I'd bet ecs gets theirs from across sea's too! I've helped install lesser cores, for what ever that's worth. I can't argue with get what you pay for.. but he also isn't a large company like Perrin... so there's supply and demand to consider. At 650$, it's a cheaper alternative, but I'd hardly call the kit "cheap". It's a solid upgrade and we'll configured kit. Might not have the best materials the world of racing has ever produced.... but it's shit tons better then an eBay core, and the plumbing is perfectly designed. 450awhp is a pipe dream for my goals... I'd have to fully build a new block and heads first, and at that point the 5 speed would need to go. So before I max out this fmic, I'm looking at upwards of 8grand not counting what turbo it'd take to get that power!! If I ever take her that far, another 1K to upgrade will be chump change! Good thing about this kit, and it's buy price, is it retains its value... another plus should I ever look to replace it. I'm happy... that's all that matters at the eod Def not out to snub anybody especially a fellow LGT member. Just calling things like I see em. Couplers, t-bolts and core look low quality to me and iv'e installed at least 20 name brand/high dollar kits and 10 cheap-o/low quality kits in my day. Would LOVE to see fin comparisons on RacerXs core vs. ETS's Spearco core. 400awhp for me is pipe dream as well. I'll do a little more research before buying. Maybe I will try the RacerXs kit who knows. Ets kit IS super SEXY tho!! Yeah man ETS's stuff is literally art. In the past I bought cars specifically b/c ETS made sweet parts for em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc6 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Thanks man! Always have loved the look of them on a scoob... and imo pros out weighed the cons... plus, Chevy Cobalt SS comes STOCK with fmic!!! All the naysayers are tripping IMHO, nothing wrong with either option... saying one is bad is just silly, I think. Rock on! So did my 1992 Volvo station wagon. FMIC is not a big deal, it's just a way to mount an intercooler... Have you seen how long the manifolds and piping are on a Subaru? Versus a transverse motor like an Evo or SRT-4, or Cobalt SS (lol)? That's why those cars came stock with FMIC setups, much shorter piping. Same for the Cobalt replacement, Cruze. I had the Eco so on top of GM putting the FMIC between radiator and condenser I also had active shutters cutting off air to it at freeway speeds. When tuned I could do a hard pull then fall flat on my face the next pull because GD shutters were trying to be all eco on me. I also agree the turbo to FMIC was a short path with turbo being literally right behind the radiator. I totally want a FMIC but hard to justify when my car came to me with a Perrrin top mount already. 2005 Satin White Pearl Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT Unlimited 5EAT (Project Car) 2019 Agate Black Ford Explorer XLT 4WD (DD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merc6 Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 Thanks man! Always have loved the look of them on a scoob... and imo pros out weighed the cons... plus, Chevy Cobalt SS comes STOCK with fmic!!! All the naysayers are tripping IMHO, nothing wrong with either option... saying one is bad is just silly, I think. Rock on! So did my 1992 Volvo station wagon. FMIC is not a big deal, it's just a way to mount an intercooler... Have you seen how long the manifolds and piping are on a Subaru? Versus a transverse motor like an Evo or SRT-4, or Cobalt SS (lol)? That's why those cars came stock with FMIC setups, much shorter piping. Same for the Cobalt replacement, Cruze. I had the Eco so on top of GM putting the FMIC between radiator and condenser I also had active shutters cutting off air to it at freeway speeds. When tuned I could do a hard pull then fall flat on my face the next pull because GD shutters were trying to be all eco on me. I also agree the turbo to FMIC was a short path with turbo being literally right behind the radiator. I totally want a FMIC but hard to justify when my car came to me with a Perrrin top mount already. 2005 Satin White Pearl Subaru Legacy 2.5 GT Unlimited 5EAT (Project Car) 2019 Agate Black Ford Explorer XLT 4WD (DD) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 So did my 1992 Volvo station wagon. FMIC is not a big deal, it's just a way to mount an intercooler... Have you seen how long the manifolds and piping are on a Subaru? Versus a transverse motor like an Evo or SRT-4, or Cobalt SS (lol)? That's why those cars came stock with FMIC setups, much shorter piping. This, Subaru didn't use an FMIC because of how long the piping would be and how much it would get in the way, plus much more expensive vs a single piece top mount. Nissan actually used both TMIC and FMIC on stock turbo SR20DET's: Bluebirds (top mount) and Avenirs (front mount). We just about never run the top mounts due to inefficiency, no real TMIC choices, and since turbo is up front your piping can be pretty darn short. This is how long my hot pipe is: http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=261659&stc=1&d=1517893672 Here is how long my cold pipe is: http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=261660&stc=1&d=1517893672 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quick4dr Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Love my RacersX kit 50k daily driven through mine, flawless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quick4dr Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Love my RacersX kit 50k daily driven through mine, flawless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oODanKNesSOo Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 Cool looking BOV tubing.. I thought about upgrading mine, while the IM is off... hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oODanKNesSOo Posted March 17, 2017 Author Share Posted March 17, 2017 Cool looking BOV tubing.. I thought about upgrading mine, while the IM is off... hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
covertrussian Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Cool looking BOV tubing.. I thought about upgrading mine, while the IM is off... hmmm Home Depot special I had a heck of a time finding tubing that would fit on the Greddy BOV, Thus didn't care that it was that color, it gets the job done 05 LGT 16G 14psi 290whp/30mpg (SOLD) 12 OBP Stock 130whp/27mpg@87 Oct 00 G20t GT28r 10psi 250whp/36mpg 22 Ascent STOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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