2009 SpecB First Rebuild

[Darth SpecB]

Welcome to my beautiful disaster.

 

I'm new to subaru and turbo boxer engines. This is also my first engine rebuild EVER, on a subie.

 

Now for the horror story...

 

A month ago I picked up a clean body specB with 118k that had a timing belt kit done at 102k. I fell in love with the car the first time I drove it. On the way home I stopped to get gas and merging onto the on ramp the c clip that holds the shifter in popped out! WTF. Anyways I got lucky because I was .5 miles to a tire shop and they let me use a screwdriver to pop it back in. I was 100 miles away from the dealer. 200 miles into the trip back home I get a cruise control malfunction and cels. Knowing nothing about the car I called the dealer and he told me it's just the gas cap you can keep driving. I drove about 10 miles to the nearest O'Reilly to get codes checked. It was the p011 crankshaft position sensor. I kept going for about 100 more miles and get a loss of power going downhill, and then finally heard a rattle which sounds just like ball bearings.

 

At this point im stranded in the middle of nowhere waiting for the car to be towed back to the dealer. Luckily a friend of mine came along to keep me sane as we chilled in a rental. Come to find out a few days later the turbo failed. A new turbo was installed and car was shipped back to my house 600 miles from dealer for the inconvenience. After 2 weeks of waiting I finally got my baby back and was excited to drive. Reading the forums I read of all the horror stories of blown turbos taking engines with them. I decided to drive the car anyways and 600 miles later I get a rod knock!! FML. I was hoping I caught the turbo failure in time as I pulled over 2 miles after I heard the rattle. The tech who did the work was avoiding me and wouldn't send pictures of the compressor housing.

 

I will be pulling out the engine within this week and I will post pictures of metal shavings or any findings I come across. Now I am on a budget of about 3k so I want to reuse any parts on my block or heads that I can for now. I need my car running reliably to get to work asap. However I will not be cheaping out on necessary parts. I have already ordered an sti11mm oil pump, and a bunch of small things. I will have the block machined and hopefully my heads are fine.

 

If there are any other parts that would be recommended, please feel free to hit me with the knowledge hammer. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

[Max Capacity]

Welcome to the forum, you've come to the right place.

 

Yours is a very common story with these cars. I mean like once or twice a week we hear the same thing, recently bought the car and now...

 

I'll tell you to read the sticky's at the tops of the forum's, then read my click link to see some more info.

 

You'll want to talk with Mike at www.infamousperformance.net he's near you and is a trusted member here. He can get you anything you need.

[Darth SpecB]

Today I threw a couple dollars at the engine and she stripped down to the longblock.

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161110/c7037bf5d6c82a35796da7563ad909ea.jpg

 

Here's the good news...

 

Despite working 50+ hours a week and balancing still having a life and spending time with the girlfriend.

Machine shop will do most of the hardstuff anyways right?

 

Here's the bad news...

 

I finally faced the consequences of my actions and found a gold mine full of bearing material!! Woo hoo! I still have yet to tear apart the SB and find the extent of the damage.

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161110/a62d5c2be02651127afe5895e5b40c80.jpg

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161110/70977a36e944cde6e668de52034e1f12.jpg

 

Glittery stuff = -1000hp

 

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161110/8c8c491bbd5230d7df5e7d3cd123dc18.jpg

 

I most likely will end up having machine shop rebuild heads, and reuse all salvageable parts.

 

Sent from another Galaxy far far away...

[Max Capacity]

Heuberger Subaru is a vendor dealer on here, click on the Vendor link on the blue bar at the top of the forum page.

 

once again, Mike, aka, m sprank may be able to get you one too. contact him and see what he can do for you when it comes to parts. Remember to support him too, he has a real brick and mortar shop.

[StkmltS]

My local Subaru stealership sells new shortblocks for the same price as Heuberger, so if you can find one local you'll save a decent penny on shipping.

 

I think you're going to have a very difficult time staying under your $3k budget. It's absolutely possible, but the forged pistons and rods will easily put you over. Check out the first post in my rebuild thread if you want to see more details. Note: my rebuild didn't include a new oil pump and oil cooler, both of which you'll definitely need to replace. Your turbo already grenaded (at least once that you know of) and now every orifice in your motor is probably ever-so-lightly coated in bearing dust. Reusing the pump and cooler would be risky.

 

With that said... let's get this show started and your LGT back on the road!

[Darth SpecB]

UPDATE:

 

I Got the oil pan all cleaned up, I used a pressure washer, some bore brushes and degreaser to get all the micro dust out of the little crevices.

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161113/2b80e6a6674911b6a0e2bb72f1019b08.jpg

 

I also noticed a kinked hard line that comes from the thermostat housing. Would anyone happen to know the part number?

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161113/f2c6a19207e077ba7b538bcb5657d42d.jpg

 

I ran into a set back waiting for my cam sprocket wrenches to come in so I can pull the heads off.

 

Shopping list so far:

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161113/82e49b32415bcfd50d86985e89bc0a41.jpg

 

 

 

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[Max Capacity]

For that dented line, I'd ask Benny at, see post 163, http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/oem-online-subaru-parts-vendors-list-42243p5.html

 

When you order that oil cooler.

[Darth SpecB]

I am going to order some king bearings for the mains and rods. Would anyone happen to know which sizes I should be buying? The numbers stamped on the block are 21212.

 

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[StkmltS]

I am going to order some king bearings for the mains and rods. Would anyone happen to know which sizes I should be buying? The numbers stamped on the block are 21212.

 

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What are the markings on your crankshaft? I'm gonna guess that it's marked "ABABA".

 

My block is marked 22222, my crank is marked AAAAA, and the measurements of all of my mains indicated that I needed standard size bearings. With new standard size bearings, plastigage confirmed that my clearances were (more or less) within spec.

 

I would bet that you'll need two sets of main bearings to get the clearances correct.

 

There are no markings anywhere for the rod bearings so you just have to measure them and order accordingly... or buy a standard size set and then measure the clearances with plastigage, and hope they're correct.

[Max Capacity]

Have you been in touch with Mike at Infamous Performance yet. I think you need to measure the crank/rods before you order bearings.

[Sgt.Gator]

When there's a lot of glitter in the oil consider that anything oil went thru should be rebuilt or replaced, or expect it to fail faster than normal.

Your new Turbo should be rebuilt. You might get away with skipping this step but don't be surprised if it goes bad in a couple of months.

AVCS cam gears rebuilt or new ones. I know this one from personal experience when I didn't do that on my spun bearing caused rebuild. Both AVCS cam gears stuck solid from the goo in them. That mistake cost me about $1,000 extra dollars in wasted dyno tune time, days off work, and trailering my car back and forth 180 miles to Cobb Surgeline.

New AVCS cam valves.

Thoroughly clean or replace all the oil lines going to/from the AVCS system and the turbo. Be especially sure to remove the infamous banjo bolt filters in the lines entirely, or at least replace them. There's two, one on each head. if you aren't familiar with this issue do a google search for Subaru Banjo Bolt Filter.

[Darth SpecB]

Have you been in touch with Mike at Infamous Performance yet. I think you need to measure the crank/rods before you order bearings.

I have not contacted Mike yet, I have been able to find most parts off Amazon for a really good deal. Also he's about an 8 hour drive, and seeing as I can't drive at I'll just wait until I run into a serious problem. Hopefully I don't though!

 

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[Darth SpecB]

When there's a lot of glitter in the oil consider that anything oil went thru should be rebuilt or replaced, or expect it to fail faster than normal.

Your new Turbo should be rebuilt. You might get away with skipping this step but don't be surprised if it goes bad in a couple of months.

AVCS cam gears rebuilt or new ones. I know this one from personal experience when I didn't do that on my spun bearing caused rebuild. Both AVCS cam gears stuck solid from the goo in them. That mistake cost me about $1,000 extra dollars in wasted dyno tune time, days off work, and trailering my car back and forth 180 miles to Cobb Surgeline.

New AVCS cam valves.

Thoroughly clean or replace all the oil lines going to/from the AVCS system and the turbo. Be especially sure to remove the infamous banjo bolt filters in the lines entirely, or at least replace them. There's two, one on each head. if you aren't familiar with this issue do a google search for Subaru Banjo Bolt Filter.

I will be thoroughly cleaning the block with engine degreaser, a pressure washer, and bore brushes from harbor freight. They are copper or brass so they shouldn't scratch the aluminum. The same goes for the oil lines on the heads. Also I will be ordering 2 new oil control valves for the AVCS.

 

Is 2 new AVCS intake sprockets really recommended? I didn't find any bearing material evidence that made it to my heads. The sticky also does not state that.

 

The turbo that was replaced with a brand new VF46 with zero shaft play, so I will ride this one for at least 20k miles and recheck shaft play. All Banjo filters were removed by me personally, they seem to have caught most of the bearing material before making it to the heads/AVCS cam gears.

 

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[Sgt.Gator]

If you still had your filters in the banjos it's possible your AVCS gears, AVCS valves, and turbo are ok. If you tune it in the future and get strange AVCS behavior you'll know why.

 

That's the Catch 22. Turbo manufacturers want us to take the filters out because they can slowly clog up and starve the turbo bearing. But if you take them out and have a spun bearing or piston melt down (I've had both) you're looking at replacing all that stuff.

 

I have the old IPT turbo inline filter on my Spec B. I don't think he makes/sells them anymore. But it didn't help keep the crud out of the AVCS gears.

[Darth SpecB]

What are the markings on your crankshaft? I'm gonna guess that it's marked "ABABA".

 

My block is marked 22222, my crank is marked AAAAA, and the measurements of all of my mains indicated that I needed standard size bearings. With new standard size bearings, plastigage confirmed that my clearances were (more or less) within spec.

 

I would bet that you'll need two sets of main bearings to get the clearances correct.

 

There are no markings anywhere for the rod bearings so you just have to measure them and order accordingly... or buy a standard size set and then measure the clearances with plastigage, and hope they're correct.

The markings on my crank are CCBCB, the markings on the Block casting are 21212. I'm not sure what these letters and numbers indicate. The FSM does not specify.

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161126/a0302e32702f85727a55e84e83518c63.jpg

 

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[Darth SpecB]

#2 Rod bearing was the worst but it didn't spin

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161126/7ac9d5f07e8c8cb28156477456718a2c.jpg

 

#3 rod journal (spun)

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161126/099076823f79f729636eefe777dc6df8.jpg

 

#4 rod journal (spun)

 

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161126/806604d297d6b690d1fcf30acf5e5e74.jpg

 

Looks like it's time for a new crank and rods. I will be going for oem rods since they are good for 400whp and I don't plan on passing 350whp.

 

If anyone believes it is a bad idea to reuse my block please speak now with your opinion or forever hold your peace.

 

BTW any recommendations on where to purchase new OCV for AVCS? For some reason amazon won't ship to my address.

 

 

 

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[Sgt.Gator]

If you can keep your HP goal to 300 it's generally cheaper and more reliable to buy a new oem shortblock.

[Darth SpecB]

Since I'm getting a new crank/rods shouldn't standard size rod bearings be within spec since the journals will be true? I will use plastigauge once the parts come in.

 

I will be honing the block myself since my local machine shop won't do it because their machine is not set up for boxer engines.

 

Stay tuned...

[StkmltS]

Looks like it's time for a new crank and rods. I will be going for oem rods since they are good for 400whp and I don't plan on passing 350whp.

 

If anyone believes it is a bad idea to reuse my block please speak now with your opinion or forever hold your peace.

 

BTW any recommendations on where to purchase new OCV for AVCS? For some reason amazon won't ship to my address.

 

From a purely financial perspective, at this point I'm very confident that buying a new SB would be your more responsible option. It's a little less exciting, but much cheaper. For my (very) DIY rebuild I didn't need a new crank or rods, and I was only one or two hundred dollars under the cost of a new SB. Needing a new crank + rods absolutely puts you over the threshold. Even if you want forged pistons I think a new SB is your cheaper option. You wouldn't even have to take apart the new SB to put in the new pistons.

 

Just think about how simple it would be.

No honing, no new crank, no new rods, no calculating bearing clearances, no buying buying bearings, no assembly to worry about... just unbox it and start putting everything onto the new SB.

 

If you don't get a new SB...

I think you'll be totally fine reusing your block as long as you clean it like your car's life depends on it. There aren't a ton of crevices for metal to hide, so if you're very thorough I think you can feel safe about reusing it. Same goes for the heads, but you'll need to be even more careful because there are way more "secret compartments" that little metal bits could be hiding.

 

If you can keep your HP goal to 300 it's generally cheaper and more reliable to buy a new oem shortblock.

 

See, getting a new SB is starting to make even more sense! I won't bring it up again because I'm pretty sure that you know how I feel by now

 

Since I'm getting a new crank/rods shouldn't standard size rod bearings be within spec since the journals will be true? I will use plastigauge once the parts come in.

 

I will be honing the block myself since my local machine shop won't do it because their machine is not set up for boxer engines.

 

Stay tuned...

 

Wanna buy my ball-hone? My motor is back up and running and I'm 99% certain I won't ever need the tool again.

 

Don't buy main bearings until you have the new crank unless you're feeling lucky. Play it safe and wait until you know that you need standard bearings. Heck, I'll send you my old std size bearings (not damaged) so you can use them to see if they'll give you the clearances you want. Seriously, I'll send them to you. You don't even have to buy my ball-hone, I'll just do it out of the abundance of kindness flowing from my Subaru-loving heart (plus USPS shipping, naturally )

 

The FSM is a little lacking regarding rod bearings. If I remember correctly the only way to know exactly what you need is to fit a set of standard size bearings and go from there.

[Darth SpecB]

From a purely financial perspective, at this point I'm very confident that buying a new SB would be your more responsible option. It's a little less exciting, but much cheaper. For my (very) DIY rebuild I didn't need a new crank or rods, and I was only one or two hundred dollars under the cost of a new SB. Needing a new crank + rods absolutely puts you over the threshold. Even if you want forged pistons I think a new SB is your cheaper option. You wouldn't even have to take apart the new SB to put in the new pistons.

 

Just think about how simple it would be.

No honing, no new crank, no new rods, no calculating bearing clearances, no buying buying bearings, no assembly to worry about... just unbox it and start putting everything onto the new SB.

 

If you don't get a new SB...

I think you'll be totally fine reusing your block as long as you clean it like your car's life depends on it. There aren't a ton of crevices for metal to hide, so if you're very thorough I think you can feel safe about reusing it. Same goes for the heads, but you'll need to be even more careful because there are way more "secret compartments" that little metal bits could be hiding.

 

 

 

See, getting a new SB is starting to make even more sense! I won't bring it up again because I'm pretty sure that you know how I feel by now

 

 

 

Wanna buy my ball-hone? My motor is back up and running and I'm 99% certain I won't ever need the tool again.

 

Don't buy main bearings until you have the new crank unless you're feeling lucky. Play it safe and wait until you know that you need standard bearings. Heck, I'll send you my old std size bearings (not damaged) so you can use them to see if they'll give you the clearances you want. Seriously, I'll send them to you. You don't even have to buy my ball-hone, I'll just do it out of the abundance of kindness flowing from my Subaru-loving heart (plus USPS shipping, naturally )

 

The FSM is a little lacking regarding rod bearings. If I remember correctly the only way to know exactly what you need is to fit a set of standard size bearings and go from there.

 

Well seeing as I have already ordered a new crank/flex hone. There's no turning back at this point. I have come to the realization that I will be going over my spending limit, but the journey has been fun, and that's what matters!

 

Stock pistons will be reused because I have read that forged pistons tear up the cylinder walls pretty bad.

 

The heads were hot tanked at the machine shop and rebuilt with new seals for $420.

 

On the bright side, I can practice my micrometer and bore gauge skills. The equation should be:

 

Bore Size - Journal Size. Then subtract desired oil clearance. That gives you the bearing size. Hopefully this helps out with someone else who is deciding which bearing sizes to buy.

 

I have also heard that buying a new crank would mean that standard size bearings should fit. This goes for most engines, however subaru uses 3 different size main bearings according to FSM. I will still be measuring to play it safe.

 

On the bright side, I will have upgraded (king) bearings which are suppose to help with issues of oil getting to the rods.

 

BTW I appreciate the generousity greatly! I always seem to choose the hard way. Ahh well.

 

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[StkmltS]

You can buy new OEM pistons+rings+clips here for only $25.

 

Before you use your flex-hone tool put something hard and flat in the bottom of the cylinder. Like an old AOL cd or a rigid piece of cardboard. I used a piece of plastic that I cut out of a big storage tub to turn said storage tub into my diy blast booth. If you don't put something down in there then the bottom couple rows of honing balls can get caught on the bottom of the cylinder and take your drill for a wild ride.

 

I've never heard that a new crank = std size bearings. Bearing size depends as much on the bore size in the block as it does on the crank journals, but hopefully you'll get lucky and std size will work.

 

Good choice on King bearings. Great minds think alike

[birkhoff]

A few comments and sources.

 

No need to buy new rods unless overheated. Any decent machine shop can resize your rods to be as good as new. Wrist pin bushes are often ok, but should to be checked. If you have rods reconditioned, the shop will probably replace pin bushes and hone them to size as a matter of course.

 

If you have a bore gauge, you have half a chance of hitting your oil clearances, but I think you will find your formula to be off by quite a bit. You are leaving out bearing 'crush'. Not such a big factor in an iron block with large running clearances, but in aluminum, with tight clearance targets, the crush is significant. Ask your machinist what to expect and buy accordingly. Load the shells and torque the case together. Check that your bores with shells in place correspond to crank journal diameter plus running clearance. Give or take a bit. There is some anecdotal information in my build thread about this.

 

As StkmltS just noted, there is no point in re-using your existing pistons, if that's what you meant to do. Certainly not to save $100. Also, you should remeasure bores after you hone and select the new piston grades accordingly. You may find this a bit frustrating because the bores will be quite oval when the block is unmated from the heads and split. The proper way to do this is with a torque plate. Source for 'new' pistons is in his build thread.

[Darth SpecB]

A few comments and sources.

 

No need to buy new rods unless overheated. Any decent machine shop can resize your rods to be as good as new. Wrist pin bushes are often ok, but should to be checked. If you have rods reconditioned, the shop will probably replace pin bushes and hone them to size as a matter of course.

 

If you have a bore gauge, you have half a chance of hitting your oil clearances, but I think you will find your formula to be off by quite a bit. You are leaving out bearing 'crush'. Not such a big factor in an iron block with large running clearances, but in aluminum, with tight clearance targets, the crush is significant. Ask your machinist what to expect and buy accordingly. Load the shells and torque the case together. Check that your bores with shells in place correspond to crank journal diameter plus running clearance. Give or take a bit. There is some anecdotal information in my build thread about this.

 

As StkmltS just noted, there is no point in re-using your existing pistons, if that's what you meant to do. Certainly not to save $100. Also, you should remeasure bores after you hone and select the new piston grades accordingly. You may find this a bit frustrating because the bores will be quite oval when the block is unmated from the heads and split. The proper way to do this is with a torque plate. Source for 'new' pistons is in his build thread.

What would be the downside to reusing pistons with new rings? They are already properly sized to the individual bores. I have inspected them and there are no cracked ringlands.

 

 

 

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[Darth SpecB]

UPDATE:

 

The nearest machine shop that can confidently work on my block is 2 hours away. He is suggesting getting a line hone for the mains that way I can just get one set of mains. The problem with this is that it cost 450 for the line hone plus 150 for cleaning, not including bearings.

 

Has anyone been able to fit bearings correctly without a line hone? Assuming I might get lucky and my main bores are in spec, wouldn't it be more logical to use 2-3 sets of mains to get the clearances I need? I would rather pay the 300 for different sets of mains if this is possible.

 

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[birkhoff]

UPDATE:

 

The nearest machine shop that can confidently work on my block is 2 hours away. He is suggesting getting a line hone for the mains that way I can just get one set of mains. The problem with this is that it cost 450 for the line hone plus 150 for cleaning, not including bearings.

 

Has anyone been able to fit bearings correctly without a line hone? Assuming I might get lucky and my main bores are in spec, wouldn't it be more logical to use 2-3 sets of mains to get the clearances I need? I would rather pay the 300 for different sets of mains if this is possible.

 

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I did it without a hone, but used two sets of mains and a bore gauge. As far as I know, there is only one oversize bearing genearlly available, from ACL. STD and + 0.025 mm. I had to mix shells to get consistent clearances with a used crankshaft.

 

If you are considering a long distance line hone, contact Outfront. They have a source on a thicker back bearing so can open up the line a little bit without losing centre. Price is about what you are quoted I believe, excluding bearings.