fahr_side Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Yeah I was just thinking about the washer tank failing if it had pure water in it. A few times a year I spend a night or two in freezing weather. I priced out the JDM STI setup, but for $100+ I think I'd rather get something else. When it's over 100 out the ecu has a lot of excuses to cut power so I'm not even sure how much a sprayer would help. Honestly, if you're going this far, just do water meth injection. By the time you're done the price will come out the same and WMI is much more effective than an IC spray. To freeze-proof your IC spray liquid you need to add alcohol and more than 50% mixes are flammable (which is a no-no) and that's the best mix for injection. Might as well go the whole way. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarang Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Honestly, if you're going this far, just do water meth injection. By the time you're done the price will come out the same and WMI is much more effective than an IC spray. To freeze-proof your IC spray liquid you need to add alcohol and more than 50% mixes are flammable (which is a no-no) and that's the best mix for injection. Might as well go the whole way. Can a reliable setup be had for around that price? (minus tuning) I have actually given that some thought as well and I'm intimidated by how complicated it is and the potential for catastrophic failure. I do like how it can lower engine temps and steam clean internals. The sad fact is I'm at a point here where I should try not to spend money on my car... but I keep coming back to this forum... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zee199969 Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 The GS 2015+ WRX TMIC has a bung for WMI fyi My "Build" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 From what I have read from Fahr-side IIRC you should have it set to work at WOT that way you will only need tuning for that instance of your driving not the whole rpm/throttle range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarang Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Being in Phoenix, I had thought about having it work at like 5 psi and up (or even a tad lower) and maybe inject only distilled water to lower the cost a bit. I'm no expert of course. On the other hand, maybe I'll just get an oil cooler next spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Being in Phoenix, I had thought about having it work at like 5 psi and up (or even a tad lower) and maybe inject only distilled water to lower the cost a bit. I'm no expert of course. On the other hand, maybe I'll just get an oil cooler next spring. The more complex the feed the more adjustments the tune will need, and a complex and reliable pressure switch as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Maybe this discussion deserves a thread of its own or splitting off into one. In hot climates or with badly intercooler-limited cars I like to have injection threshold around the 8psi mark. I prefer to go full flow from the outset as ramped up flow just means lower line pressure at the start and that makes for poor atomization. Poor atomization makes it harder to reach a consistent AFR. A simple adjustable Hobbs switch is quite enough for this job. It's not difficult to find the load and rpm points below which no meth is sprayed but above which meth is definitely on, which makes it a reliable process to add timing and pull fuel where needed. Once you've done this 10 or 20 times it's pretty simple stuff. Yes plain water is better than nothing but methanol is so easy to obtain it's silly not to use it. You still have to tune for plain water or you will run too rich and you'll give up any power benefit gained from charge cooling. You can always use washer fluid in a pinch. From a reliability standpoint you can use the AEM safeguard gauge which compares AFR to boost pressure and throws an alarm when for example you are lean at high boost. This gauge has a lead you can use to trigger a relay that cuts power to the BCS to yank boost down to actuator pressure and back to the map areas with timing and fuel targets that don't need meth on to operate safely. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandon.mol Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 (edited) -Tuning Alliance Etune , Stage 1, tuned for 94 Octane fuel. - GFB Mach 2 BPV - Perrin TMIC Coupler - AEM Dryflow filter - Invidia Q300 CBE 3rd gear pull for tuning purposes...doesn't go to HP peak. On flat, level highway. ~70 degrees @ 13.6 psi ambient temp/pressure. http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=238693&stc=1&d=1475559471 Edited October 4, 2016 by brandon.mol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 These other graphs make me feel like my torque should be higher... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandon.mol Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 It would appear my numbers are a fair bit higher than yours, and you are stage 2, right? But probably tuned on 91? Your boost drops way down from 3000 to 4000 rpm. That would probably be the issue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) I am tuned on 93. The boost is actually pretty steady around 19 psi tapering to around 18 in the 4k range then down to 16 at 5k, then 14 at 5200rpm. It could also be there is no sudden surge like there used to be so it feels slower, when its actually not. Edit-I noticed you used smoothing 1 does that make any difference? Also did you change the dyno setting? Edited October 5, 2016 by FLlegacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgoodhue Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 It could also be there is no sudden surge like there used to be so it feels slower, when its actually not. One of my turbo vehicles stock boost control looked like a wave and varied from peak to peak 2.5psi. Sometimes it felt fast in the 1/4 mile when it hit 3rd gear other times it felt like it was falling on its face. The time slip did not match the seat of the pants feeling as they basically were the same. It wasn't until I was looking at the datalogs, that I realize if the boost was going up the wave when shifting 3rd gear is when it felt fast and when it was going down the wave is when it felt like a slow run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBPeik Posted October 5, 2016 Author Share Posted October 5, 2016 Smoothing 1 will give you more power than smoothing 2 or 3. That is why I suggested that we all use smoothing 3. Keeps things consistent that way. My someday I will be done with it thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Note that smoothing in VD doesn't apply to the boost or AFR traces, only torque and power Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandon.mol Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Didn't notice the remark about smoothing before. I'll regenerate. FL... There is a dip in your boost on the graph right where torque would otherwise peak. By the way, to get AFRs on there you go into the options and paste in the air fuel field name from your csv for the custom field name for AFR. Edit: I see now that the line I am referring to is not your final revision. Ignore. Edited October 5, 2016 by brandon.mol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 (edited) Note that smoothing in VD doesn't apply to the boost or AFR traces, only torque and power Smoothing is in the options for boost, i was playing with the settings this morning. Edit- Brandon I will also add, since the comments we traded on the laggy feel on the hwy, my car has actually been pulling pretty decent, I don't even need to downshift to do a quick pass, and no knock. That has been the best so far is I get an occasional -2 to -6 on feedback but only during shifts otherwise none at all. So I am pretty happy with my tune now, I am guessing it took a little while to learn some parameters. Edited October 5, 2016 by FLlegacy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandon.mol Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Cool. Mike @ TA fixed that issue for me. Not sure what all he did but part of it was just the throttle map. I had noticed right from the start that the throttle map on his tune was way less aggressive than the Cobb one, which was maybe just contributing to my perception relative to my right foot more than anything. So maybe your right foot got used to it. Here is my new chart. Not a lot different, but slightly lower numbers. http://legacygt.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=238729&stc=1&d=1475680584 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehsnils Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I think if its your daily driver and you're in traffic on hot days a lot, the fan would be a nifty handy tool. I have had intak temps of over 130 sitting in traffic on a 90 degree day It's not a big deal though, the intercooler is primarily needed when you ask for a lot of power and the turbo starts to give boost. In city driving it's not needed. The point with it is to cool down the compressed air after the turbo to allow the turbo to push in more air and give more top power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandon.mol Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 ^^^ There isn't a day that goes by that I'm not in boost during city driving. Heck, I don't make it out of my driveway without boost. In reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/60/28/0a/60280ab8f56d09e07762b14a7d026321.jpg I just had a flash back with that comment, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCrash Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I dont get into high boost but can easily see 1-4 pounds in traffic, admittedly I drive faster than other but not recklessly. Every little blip of hard throttle still pulls in that nasty warm air so i cant see why some water to cool down the IC wouldnt at least help. I agree its not some magic performance addition, just an added luxury/support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLlegacy Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I would say it is not that it doesn't make a difference, it is more about not making a measurable difference to the ecu, and if the ecu can't tell then its doing you no good. The intercooler would have to be way cooler than the ambient air for the charged air to be able to bleed off heat quickly enough to make a difference in the engine or it would have to have the surface area and efficiency to do the same. This is why it makes more mechanical sense to do methanol injection than a intercooler sprayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCrash Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 Agreed, I was just looking for a cheaper way to achieve some cooler temps although meth injection is pretty cheap if you can do the install yourself. i may look into that next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fahr_side Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 Agreed, I was just looking for a cheaper way to achieve some cooler temps although meth injection is pretty cheap if you can do the install yourself. i may look into that next year. You do realize the IAT is read at the MAF sensor eh? No matter what intercooler or spray you use it won't bring that number down. Obligatory '[URL="http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2008-gh8-238668.html?t=238668"]build thread[/URL]' Increased capacity to 2.7 liters, still turbo, but no longer need spark plugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCrash Posted October 6, 2016 Share Posted October 6, 2016 You do realize the IAT is read at the MAF sensor eh? No matter what intercooler or spray you use it won't bring that number down. Yea I understand but a heat soaked IC is a heat soaked IC, reading the high temps is just a gauge to determine action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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