Official Interest In COBB Flex-Fuel for the Legacy GT Platform - Please speak up

[cryo]

^i concur

[Sparkey]

Ugh, why must you guys keep bringing up ethanol! But at least its with positive information. I feel im subliminally and physically being talked into ethanol.

 

Mythbusters "Moonshine" episode was on, where they tested using shine for fuel. And then I was hassled at the pump to start using E15. I have the want to go E85 but dont really want to do it unless I can do the cobb flex fuel. We have plenty of E-85 stations but I'd hate to go to far from my 'safety zone' and get myself into a bind. Im not a big fan of the "multi-tune" setup with sensors and such. Maybe if I had an AP to flash tunes easier....

[wpmarky]

is it too late to join the interest list?

05 LGT 5mt here

[gkinslow]

is it too late to join the interest list?

05 LGT 5mt here

 

Its not too late, but an email to Cobb expressing interest would be more effective than just a post here.

[robburns201]

Email sent to cobb with a link to this thread... Keep them coming people!!!

[WRX USA]

Email sent to cobb with a link to this thread... Keep them coming people!!!

 

If you have an automatic transmission AND your car didn’t come with top feed injectors than the likelihood of getting flex fuel from Cobb is near non-existent. They have already said that it would be only cars with manual transmissions and that came with top feed injectors that would be supported.

[robburns201]

COBB'S very fast response'

 

We have been aware of this demand for some time and it is on our list of things to investigate. While we would love to offer something immediately please keep in mind the amount of work that goes into creating all the custom code for another platform even before the need to test it over hundreds of miles under varying conditions to have an idea of what you will be able to expect and to bring up any problems that the vehicle's stock components see. Since we are a relatively small company we can't just devote a team to work on only that project as we have hundreds of projects going at any time, however it is something we are aware of a demand for and there are many people internally who are huge proponents for this platform.

If you have any other questions feel free to send me another message.

Thanks

Brandyn

[Sammyshoe]

Sorry about the slow response, I didn't see your questions earlier:

 

Sammyshoe, what are your mods (specifically injectors)? 5eat or 5mt?

 

I'm using DW1000cc side feed injectors. They were really the only option for me without doing some sort of top feed conversion. The highest use I've seen logged on my AP was like 72% for the injectors, so it seems 1000 was plenty for my setup.

 

My only other mods would be an AEM 320lph pump, cobb catted downpipe, and a grimmspeed EBCS.

 

And who did your tuning?

 

Eric Hargett of Toy Barn, Columbus, OH. 17psi max boost.

 

Besides the abysmal mileage inevitable with E85, it's been great! I filled up for $1.49/gal this week (somehow). 93 was over double the cost.

[Sparkey]

Sorry about the slow response, I didn't see your questions earlier:

 

 

 

I'm using DW1000cc side feed injectors. They were really the only option for me without doing some sort of top feed conversion. The highest use I've seen logged on my AP was like 72% for the injectors, so it seems 1000 was plenty for my setup.

 

My only other mods would be an AEM 320lph pump, cobb catted downpipe, and a grimmspeed EBCS.

 

 

 

Eric Hargett of Toy Barn, Columbus, OH. 17psi max boost.

 

Besides the abysmal mileage inevitable with E85, it's been great! I filled up for $1.49/gal this week (somehow). 93 was over double the cost.

 

What do you get for mileage?

 

And is that correct... you're saying 93 was over $3.00 a gal? If so thats insane!!! Pretty sure when I got gas yesterday it was a less then .30 difference between the two and both were around $1.58

 

Instead of creating a new thread and everything im also curious, at what percent of ethanol is a tune really needed? The pumps are pushing new E15 which is 50% more then current gas and I would see that as an issue. Or am I just being paranoid?

Edited November 14, 2017 by Sparkey

[Gabo]

I get 16 mpg on E85 (Running 80% Ethanol content) with Dw 1300cc injectors and Dw300c fuel pump. Edited November 15, 2017 by Gabo

[hadvw]

And is that correct... you're saying 93 was over $3.00 a gal? If so thats insane!!! Pretty sure when I got gas yesterday it was a less then .30 difference between the two and both were around $1.58

 

All depends on where you live. Bay Area (NorCal), we're consistently between $3.00-3.40 for 91 octane (highest we can get) over the last couple of years. E85 fluctuates between $2.30 and $2.60 or so..

 

Yeah, California hates cars

[wbrawley]

Sparkey, the E15 here is 87 octane. So, that's the part I'd be worried about...

[Sparkey]

Sparkey, the E15 here is 87 octane. So, that's the part I'd be worried about...

 

You sure? The theory is that they took "regular" gas and added more ethanol (50% more) which would increase octane. Even on the pamphlet I was given it said "Increased octane over regular fuels". It would seem more ethanol = more octane.

 

85-91 octane is what comes out of the tap with 10% ethanol - In Colorado we have lower octane then everyone else. The E15 is listed as higher octane - a google search shows it at 92.6 octane. So adding ethanol to normal gas would increase its octane but it seems that in turn requires adding more fuel. This is where I question if most, or at least Subaru, ECU's can compensate.

 

So when I pull up to a pump theres 3 or 4 handles - Red is 10% ethanol, in 85, 87, or 91 octane. Blue is E15 which seems to be 92.6 octane, Yellow which is E85 is 112 octane and Green Diesel.

[wbrawley]

You sure? The theory is that they took "regular" gas and added more ethanol (50% more) which would increase octane. Even on the pamphlet I was given it said "Increased octane over regular fuels". It would seem more ethanol = more octane.

 

85-91 octane is what comes out of the tap with 10% ethanol - In Colorado we have lower octane then everyone else. The E15 is listed as higher octane - a google search shows it at 92.6 octane. So adding ethanol to normal gas would increase its octane but it seems that in turn requires adding more fuel. This is where I question if most, or at least Subaru, ECU's can compensate.

 

So when I pull up to a pump theres 3 or 4 handles - Red is 10% ethanol, in 85, 87, or 91 octane. Blue is E15 which seems to be 92.6 octane, Yellow which is E85 is 112 octane and Green Diesel.

Hmm, looks like you're right about that. It says 90 Octane with 15% ethanol is 98 octane. Also says it's compatible with vehicles 2001 and newer.

[cryo]

If you have an automatic transmission AND your car didn’t come with top feed injectors than the likelihood of getting flex fuel from Cobb is near non-existent. They have already said that it would be only cars with manual transmissions and that came with top feed injectors that would be supported.

 

I dont know if I would rule those out, there are too many variables and I have not heard this info direct so I would not count it out.

 

Dave

[m sprank]

Hmm, looks like you're right about that. It says 90 Octane with 15% ethanol is 98 octane. Also says it's compatible with vehicles 2001 and newer.

 

 

You are not examining apples to apples. Ethanol is a generic term. E15 is a generic term. Ethanol can be made form several sources and is not always high octane or good. Sugar cane ethanol is absolute CRAP and is what e15 is most likely. In Cali, all gas is watered down with Sugar cane based ethanol. Worst gas in the entire country. In Brazil for the past 30 years all they have had is sugar cane based ethanol. Worthless for performance.

 

E85. Corn based ethanol. Approx 53-82% Ethanol. Approx 105 octane.

 

By the way, this thread is the blind leading the blind. Lol. 2 years of begging for support with nothing more than a cold shoulder shown. By the time Cobb feels they have the time and money to devote there will be ZERO market. The market was larger 2 years ago. Why spend time and money now to capture a diminishing return? This is business. Business is making money. 4th gen LGT's are not making anyone money anymore. It a labor of love. Cobb does not love the LGT. Cobb is a huge corporate conglomerate that has been sold (again) during the time this thread has been running. Lol again.

 

IF it happens it will only be because by some chance another platform shares the technology and tuning.

Edited November 15, 2017 by m sprank

[WRX USA]

I dont know if I would rule those out, there are too many variables and I have not heard this info direct so I would not count it out.

 

Dave

 

The direct reply I got from Cobb, verbatim:

 

Thank you for your interest, we get emails from the legacy forum every few days informing us about this thread. I can assure you the Subaru calibrators are considering expanding flex fuel support for the top feed Legacy and Outback models. The main caveat is we only offer flex fuel for manual transmission vehicles, and the majority of LGT, OXT and FXT models have an automatic trans.

 

Let me know if I can help you with anything else!

[cryo]

When did you get that reply? Obviously its an unknown but I have been led to believe IF its released it may require an upgrade to top feed (because its a stable upgrade path where as larger side feeds are not considered stable) but not only designed for "top feed cars"

 

they are saying that currently all models supported with flex fuel/CCF ARE M/T, that does not necessarily mean that it will not be released for AT cars if they expand to the LGT/FXT group.

 

Again I can make no claims as no one really knows TILL/IF/WHEN its released, just have to wait and see but dont want anyone to rule it out till we have more info. I dont want to get anyones hopes up, just dont want someone who has waited this log to be deterred by anything but info released from cobb spokes people publically

 

Dave

Edited November 15, 2017 by cryo

[WRX USA]

When did you get that reply?

 

The reply I got today said that they are investigating Legacy GT/Outback XT flex fuel support but it would be on manual cars only, as stated above, and only those years that came with top feed injectors.

 

Last month, 10/12/17 to be specific

[Sparkey]

You are not examining apples to apples. Ethanol is a generic term. E15 is a generic term. Ethanol can be made form several sources and is not always high octane or good. Sugar cane ethanol is absolute CRAP and is what e15 is most likely. In Cali, all gas is watered down with Sugar cane based ethanol. Worst gas in the entire country. In Brazil for the past 30 years all they have had is sugar cane based ethanol. Worthless for performance.

 

E85. Corn based ethanol. Approx 53-82% Ethanol. Approx 105 octane.

 

Thank you, that is good information to know. I had assumed it was all corn.

[cryo]

By the way, this thread is the blind leading the blind. Lol. 2 years of begging for support with nothing more than a cold shoulder shown. By the time Cobb feels they have the time and money to devote there will be ZERO market. The market was larger 2 years ago. Why spend time and money now to capture a diminishing return? This is business. Business is making money. 4th gen LGT's are not making anyone money anymore. It a labor of love. Cobb does not love the LGT. Cobb is a huge corporate conglomerate that has been sold (again) during the time this thread has been running. Lol again.

 

IF it happens it will only be because by some chance another platform shares the technology and tuning.

 

Mike,

 

I ask this in the most respectful way but why do you feel the need to post negative comments in this post continuously? Is it because you truly do not think cobb is developing for all platforms or is your intention to turn customers to an "alternate" option?

 

I have at least 3 LGT's and 2 FXT's every other week in my shop for turbo installs,calibrations etc which shows its still a very strong market albeit not the largest of subaru markets. These cars are in my shop more than say an 04 STI due to our market here and trust me, these cars are built for daily and track use *daily drivers all the way to full roll cages and 500-600 hp* I guess in that respect I am the only person "making money" off these cars?

 

We just saw the first 9sec legacy GT spec b last year by a fellow protuner in her personal car, I guess that would show people are building them for race prep as well.

 

I have two fully built motor FXT's on break in maps right now with precision/garrett turbo setups that will be coming in for dyno tunes once they are ready.

 

I have quite a few LGT customers locally that daily thier legacy's and would LOVE to have flex fuel as they run e85 year round in sub zero temps but would love to have the option for mpgs, more safety due to blends, road trips etc. The demand is still there.......Look at me personally. Went from a 06 LGT 4 years ago to a 11sti, 15 wrx and then back to a 08 spec b due to the love of the chassis.....I am not alone and plan to keep my car just as those who own a 04-07 STI.....

 

Any customer reading this should know that COBB has NOT forgotten about this platform, I have spoke with them quite a bit and trust me, your emails/requests at shows etc do make a difference.

 

The first flex fuel kit was released for the most common vehicles (08-14 WRX/STI, then DI, Then 04-07 GD.....Keep fighting the good fight, keep in mind they said "NO, to 16bit 02/05 WRX because its not possible......they have never said NO to LGT/FXT, dont you think if they really didnt care they would not just give a hard NO to support 2 years ago and quit getting the emails.....Keep in mind this thread was started before DIT flex fuel even came out.

 

BTW i do not speak for COBB in any way directly, just feel like we have a good chance of getting support with honey rather than salt.......

 

You know I have a lot of respect for you and what you have done/accomplished and am not trying to start a pissing match, just amazed you have taken the time for two years now to chime in with nothing but negative comments.

 

Gotta stay positive and calling our forum members and myself "Blind" for putting effort into getting something produced to help the community is not a very flattering/respectful thing to say.....

 

 

Last month, 10/12/17 to be specific

 

Interesting, well we will have to wait and see, I would still keep an open mind honestly as it seems like new development is made on all platforms, I mean a 16bit cobb tuned ecu in a wrx just broke the world record in the 1/2 mile at 197 and almost went 200mph.....there are always amazing things happening in this crazy autosport world....

 

Dave

Edited November 15, 2017 by cryo

[Sparkey]

I have quite a few LGT customers locally that daily thier legacy's and would LOVE to have flex fuel as they run e85 year round in sub zero temps but would love to have the option for mpgs, more safety due to blends, road trips etc.

 

Dave

 

This times 1000x.

 

And with the pushing of more and more "E-Blends" at the pump and technology advancements I think flex fuel kits will become available for a wider range of older cars over time.

[Lgt005]

Here’s what I heard back from Cobb this morning

 

“We are finally getting the ball rolling on this particular project, but because it is early on in the development stage I do not have a good ETA for you. I want to say that we will have this ready to go early next year, but there is no telling until testing begins. Let me know if you have any other questions in the meantime!”

 

I would ask anyone that is interested in this to send a message to Cobb just showing your interest in the flex fuel kits for our cars. Hopefully we will see these kit in the near future!

[cryo]

I had some conversations with the guys at cobb that basically said something very similar.......Lets wait to see more details in the coming months.

 

Cant wait to supply you guys with the kits and calibrations once they formally announce any more info but keep in mind that there is NO ETA even though they might have mentioned early next year, the benefit is they seem to have confirmed what everyone was hoping which is the fact that it IS coming eventually.

 

Dave

Edited November 15, 2017 by cryo

[Diesel_Jeremiah]

I'm interested. 2009 LGT & 5MT.