Ryan in Texas Posted December 3, 2015 Author Share Posted December 3, 2015 I'm not sure if you saw the gates link I posted over at bitog, but it sounds like gates includes blue threadlocker with the kit and says to use it. I'm not sure of this though, since I've never purchased or used the gates timing kit. *Just to be clear, I'm just writing that as another way of saying don't be too hard on yourself. It's not your fault threadlocker wasn't used, if it was supposed to be used. Thanks. Threadlocker was in the kit along with a special insert about using it. I am just hoping I get reimbursed for this. I was going to buy a used pop up camper for the kids so we could take weekend trips to all the State Parks around here, but now I'm buying a damn engine. It's just frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmedic Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Did the tensioner bolt break, or back itself out? Threadlocker only helps with one of those conditions. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I had never heard of this bolt breaking before, so a couple weeks ago I went to google to look into it more. I discovered that this bolt has actually broke on a few people before. I came across the thread below, where a couple people had this same problem. Long story short, what I gathered from reading the end of the thread below is that if the bolt wasn't tightened enough, or if the bolt backed out a little from lack of threadlocker, that might have put extra stress on the bolt causing it to bend and eventually break. http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f66/timing-tensioner-bolt-failure-oem-gates-others-125392/ Seems plausible, but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmedic Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Bit of a haul to ship it and probably a little late in the game but just throwing this out there: http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/67-classifieds/310601-fs-2008-outback-2-5-auto-part-out-greensboro-nc.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted December 8, 2015 Author Share Posted December 8, 2015 Bit of a haul to ship it and probably a little late in the game but just throwing this out there: http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/67-classifieds/310601-fs-2008-outback-2-5-auto-part-out-greensboro-nc.html Thanks for the thought. The machine shop is almost done with the rebuild. It's been a month since the incident and I need my car back. I might see if I can get the ac compressor from him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgoodhue Posted December 8, 2015 Share Posted December 8, 2015 Ouch that is ugly http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/4a1489aa5d12ca4506db1a2457ce5785.jpg http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/02/e108d6bb0b1c8c45f7e7b4634c8fe72d.jpg Here is the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted December 9, 2015 Author Share Posted December 9, 2015 Well, I got the car back today. She runs perfectly. Very smooth. In fact, I believe that the timing before was incorrect because the car was pretty jumpy. The machine shop knows their stuff and seems to have done a great job. They ran some Royal Purple break in oil for 3 hours, drained that, then added some Pennzoil with a break in additive that needs to be changed in about 500 miles. They said to bring the car back in about 500 miles for a checkup. Also said not to drive it too hard for the first 1000 miles so the rings can seat in the cylinder. The original installing shop has lost the faulty bolt and I am raging at them. I sent them a demand letter to pay for the engine since they failed to secure the broken part that would allow me to file a claim with Gates. I asked them to file a claim with their insurance, pay me directly, or use their warranty company. If they don't I'm taking them to small claims court and will get paid that way. Thanks everyone for the information provided during this crappy time. I'm so glad to have my Subaru back. In fact, one of the mechanics at the shop liked my car so much, he said he is going to buy one soon. He really liked the simplicity of some things on the engine. They did say that the boxter is a little different, but fairly easy to work on compared to most of the things that come through that shop. They had a Land Rover with a super charger that needed head gaskets and they said it was a 6000 job just for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orndog Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 I sure hope you documented everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 That was quite a failure, I had to remind myself that this wasn't a 255 $4K is a hard thing to swallow but I bought my gates kit and had Mach V (local speed) install it nearly 70K miles ago and never a problem. The parts may have failed the same way with a master Subaru Tech installing them or perhaps the shop that did the initial work was sub-par. I would say "just think if it were a GT...." but you spent roughly the the same to repair your 2.5i It's back running now and that shop sounds competent with the break-in guidelines etc. This simply means youll keep that car for forever which you were going to do originally right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted December 10, 2015 Author Share Posted December 10, 2015 That was quite a failure, I had to remind myself that this wasn't a 255 $4K is a hard thing to swallow but I bought my gates kit and had Mach V (local speed) install it nearly 70K miles ago and never a problem. The parts may have failed the same way with a master Subaru Tech installing them or perhaps the shop that did the initial work was sub-par. I would say "just think if it were a GT...." but you spent roughly the the same to repair your 2.5i It's back running now and that shop sounds competent with the break-in guidelines etc. This simply means youll keep that car for forever which you were going to do originally right? Lol. I was going to buy a pop up camper so I could take the kids on weekend trips, so now I'm extra pissed. I'm just hoping the shop or their insurance company takes care of this since the screwup is clearly on them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NORULZleggy Posted December 10, 2015 Share Posted December 10, 2015 After you break in oil stuff is done, go ahead and throw some Amsoil in that motor. My legacy has 152 on it and has only seen it since 24K miles. my Outback has 172K and has only ever used Amsoil also. Note: when I pulled my motor to change head gaskets due to the right side leak, my friend were amazed how clean the motor was. This is after many back road run's and abuse. Also my tranny, diffs, power steering .... and so on run Amsoil synthetic. But to each there own. good to see you have it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted December 11, 2015 Author Share Posted December 11, 2015 Well, guess who found the bolt after I told them I was going to go after the shop? No thread locker. Fu@k me in the goatass. It's their fault. Locktite came with the damn kit. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/11/653f70891db0a25690d39d93910ceed0.jpg http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/11/3cde5085adefab9e3282b981c7023287.jpg http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/11/fab7b5f94ea48b606e73a787c84c158f.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orndog Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 So then with the shop at fault, are they offering to pay or are you going to have to sue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 So then with the shop at fault, are they offering to pay or are you going to have to sue? I plan on still sending the part to Gates for a failure report. Gates will reject the claim and put in writing that the shop is at fault for not installing the bolt properly. I plan on presenting that to the shop for leverage. I want to have as much support as possible on my claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meier motor sports Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 it kinda looks like the bolt was over torqued and stretched at the failure point. can you see any markings on the head? what grade is the bolt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted December 12, 2015 Moderators Share Posted December 12, 2015 Yeah. Lack of loctite doesn't cause a bolt to break like that. Loosen over time maybe, but not snap. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted December 12, 2015 Author Share Posted December 12, 2015 it kinda looks like the bolt was over torqued and stretched at the failure point. can you see any markings on the head? what grade is the bolt? No markings on the bolt at all. It came with the Gates kit which included the NTN tensioner and bolt. The bolt appears to be coated with a darker material in the core and then the threads on the outside. It's messed up either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orndog Posted December 13, 2015 Share Posted December 13, 2015 No hash marks on the top of the bolt head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted December 13, 2015 Author Share Posted December 13, 2015 No hash marks on the top of the bolt head? Nope. Nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 Interesting preliminary opinion from a metallurgist. He said it looks like a tensile failure due to torquing. But no markings on the bolt require further testing. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/15/07e09e290ad45889be873393f7c276e5.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snm95ls Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 That is 100% a tensile failure from overloading the fastener as evidenced by the necking near the fracture. Macro pics of both ends of the break would be nice, but mostly for my own curiosity. FWIW, I used to work on cars for a living, and I never used thread locker on the timing component bolts. My guess is that maybe the tech go was in a hurry and zipped it on with an impact wrench which is fine to do if you turn the power down, then torque it properly. Crappy situation either way. :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted December 16, 2015 Author Share Posted December 16, 2015 That is 100% a tensile failure from overloading the fastener as evidenced by the necking near the fracture. Macro pics of both ends of the break would be nice, but mostly for my own curiosity. FWIW, I used to work on cars for a living, and I never used thread locker on the timing component bolts. My guess is that maybe the tech go was in a hurry and zipped it on with an impact wrench which is fine to do if you turn the power down, then torque it properly. Crappy situation either way. :/ I'll upload them after the engineering inspection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RacerX69 Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 They were not happy when I said it was an interference engine. Sad faces all over the shop. Any competent shop or mechanic should know which engines are clearance and which engines are interference. Knowledge about these things are essential when working on OHC engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RacerX69 Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 If it slipped off once I would not be comfortable with reinstalling the belt and "seeing what happens". Something is amiss. Agreed. I would never reuse a timing belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RacerX69 Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 This is what the Subaru performance shop estimated. I think my best bet is to get the long block with the warranty swapped, send the invoices to Gates, get my money back, and try and enjoy this car. It seems that the labor involved in taking everything apart to machine, inspect, etc is the same or slightly more than the LB swap... http://s4.postimg.org/gdqp6me2l/subaru_estimate.jpg Ten quarts of break in oil? The engine only holds four. WTF? And $340 for the timing belt with water pump sounds steep too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.