Ryan in Texas Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 2008 Legacy 2.5 Had this car for only 2 months. It had 115k on it when I got it. The first thing I did was get the Gates timing kit and have a shop replace all the components. New belt, idler, pulleys, tensioner, cam seals, crank seal, etc. 2 days ago, I'm driving down the road and the car shuts down. I hear a noise like a bearing gone bad. Tried to start it but no luck. Had it towed to the closet shop. They told me that the timing belt was off the left cam. They said to take it back to the shop that installed the kit. The car is going back there today on a flatbed wrecker. I need a little guidance here. What do we need to look for in terms of damage to the engine? I believe the shop is on the hook for the damage since they installed the kit and it's been only 3000 miles. Help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Well externally make sure the cam gears, cover and guides are intact. Internally you may have bent a valve or two as these are interference engines and you tried to start the car out of time. What probably happened was either the new tensioner failed allowing the belt to jump off OR the shop told you they used a new kit but only used a new belt and compressed/decompressed the tensioner improperly and it failed allowing the belt to jump. You could have them time and reinstalled the belt then do a leakdown test to check the valves. If you get poor result something got bent. You might be looking at a rebuilt head(s), timing belt, guides, items related to the valvetrain and down time. I would be very very pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Well externally make sure the cam gears, cover and guides are intact. Internally you may have bent a valve or two as these are interference engines and you tried to start the car out of time. What probably happened was either the new tensioner failed allowing the belt to jump off OR the shop told you they used a new kit but only used a new belt and compressed/decompressed the tensioner improperly and it failed allowing the belt to jump. You could have them time and reinstalled the belt then do a leakdown test to check the valves. If you get poor result something got bent. You might be looking at a rebuilt head(s), timing belt, guides, items related to the valvetrain and down time. I would be very very pissed. I'm pissed alright. I'm going to give them the chance to make it right. This is an established local shop with a good rep. I thought the bearing in my AC was failing earlier in the day because I heard a grinding sound right at the AC compressor. I guess it was the timing belt starting to come off. But you can't see it with the cover on. Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted November 12, 2015 Moderators Share Posted November 12, 2015 If you brought your own parts to the shop I would be prepared / careful. They are likely going to try and say that you brought in faulty parts and it's not their fault. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 Yeah work with the shop first most shops will correct mistakes in a timely manner. Just a bummer when things like this occur. Hope it is as minor of damage as possible and you get back up and running SOON. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 If you brought your own parts to the shop I would be prepared / careful. They are likely going to try and say that you brought in faulty parts and it's not their fault. This too^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 If you brought your own parts to the shop I would be prepared / careful. They are likely going to try and say that you brought in faulty parts and it's not their fault. It was a Gates kit. The shop said they would use the same kit. I guess I can contact Gates if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted November 12, 2015 Author Share Posted November 12, 2015 Shop said they were going to try and figure out what failed. They said first was to set the timing and reinstall the belt, then we see what happens. They said they have been using Gates for 30 years and never had any issues. They even have the Gates displays in the waiting area. They were not happy when I said it was an interference engine. Sad faces all over the shop. I guess we shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GEE-OTTO Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Hey at least they are trying to make it right worst case is they have to replace the valves in both heads. Much cheaper than a bottom end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmedic Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 While it is an interference engine, it's a roll of the dice as to whether or not you incurred any valve damage. Reset the cam timing and run a compression check, that'll let you know if the heads need to come off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orndog Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 If it slipped off once I would not be comfortable with reinstalling the belt and "seeing what happens". Something is amiss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 If it slipped off once I would not be comfortable with reinstalling the belt and "seeing what happens". Something is amiss. Something is surely amiss. Drove on all new timing for almost 3k miles with no issues. I am confident the shop will figure it out. I'm crossing my fingers that nothing is damaged. I'm just waiting for a phone call from the shop. This wait is like waiting for your college girlfriend to take a pregnancy test...let's get some results.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NORULZleggy Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 They were not happy when I said it was an interference engine. Sad faces all over the shop. QUOTE] I know it's not funny but I laughed when I read this part. This does suck man. Next time pull over and shut the car down if it make odd noise no matter what. I have a gates kit on mine and it was put on a few months back and all is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 They were not happy when I said it was an interference engine. Sad faces all over the shop. QUOTE] I know it's not funny but I laughed when I read this part. This does suck man. Next time pull over and shut the car down if it make odd noise no matter what. I have a gates kit on mine and it was put on a few months back and all is fine. I know...I just panicked...it was at night and I was first at a light and the damn thing just shut off. I tried to restart it and no luck. Everyone was honking at me but the car was busted. There was a Sheriff's deputy a few cars back that was nice enough to stop and call a wrecker, cool dude..he got the wrecker there in a few minutes and we got out of the intersection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NORULZleggy Posted November 13, 2015 Share Posted November 13, 2015 Man we all learn. I pulled my motor for the first time, and did not know you need a 11 dollar part to mate the trans to the motor. cost me 650 at Subaru. but the car runs great. so 850 and I was able to pull the motor, fix the head gaskets and everything else. Subaru want 2000. hahahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted November 16, 2015 Author Share Posted November 16, 2015 Ok, shop called and said that tensioner bolt broke off. They said timing cover is cracked, they have to tap out the broken bolt, reset timing, and see what happens from there. I'm not sure who is responsible for a broken bolt. I don't think it came with the kit, but I'll have to double check. They said about $400 for everything so far... I'm not sure what to think. I've really liked this car for the few months I had it. I got it specifically for day trips for my job. I drive from Houston to Beaumont a few days a week and needed a highway car because my Titan just drinks the gas. Edit: Shop called and said bolt came with tensioner and to start warranty process with Gates. They said Gates would pay for any engine damage. We have to send the broken part with claim form to Gates and let it work out. In the meantime, send positive thought and vibes this way for no engine damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockmedic Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 Tensioner does come with a bolt as it's sort of assembled with a sleeve, 2 washers, and an oring to hold the whole mess together so it can pivot freely. It's the only "pulley" in the Gates kit that does come with a bolt (not that that makes it their fault but given it's a steel bolt going into aluminum I'd be suspicious of the bolt too). Before paying a ton of uncomfortable labor to extract that bolt, just buy the tensioner bracket. Brand new from Subaru they're only like $35 full list. 3 bolts and it's off and in your hand. http://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru_2008_Legacy25L-4AT-4WDSedan/BRACKET-COMPLETE-TENSIONER/49225081/13156AA052.html This is the Subaru tensioner but the Gates one ships exactly the same: http://parts.subaru.com/images/parts/subaru/productimages/fullsize/13033AA042%201.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 Tensioner does come with a bolt as it's sort of assembled with a sleeve, 2 washers, and an oring to hold the whole mess together so it can pivot freely. It's the only "pulley" in the Gates kit that does come with a bolt (not that that makes it their fault but given it's a steel bolt going into aluminum I'd be suspicious of the bolt too). Before paying a ton of uncomfortable labor to extract that bolt, just buy the tensioner bracket. Brand new from Subaru they're only like $35 full list. 3 bolts and it's off and in your hand. http://parts.subaru.com/p/Subaru_2008_Legacy25L-4AT-4WDSedan/BRACKET-COMPLETE-TENSIONER/49225081/13156AA052.html This is the Subaru tensioner but the Gates one ships exactly the same: http://parts.subaru.com/images/parts/subaru/productimages/fullsize/13033AA042%201.jpg You are a mensch. Shop wants an hour labor to remove the bolt. A thousand thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 Gates has opened a warranty claim for me. They want the failed part sent to them along with any cost to fix what is broken. I guess that's all I can ask for at this point. I have no clue about cost of repairing the valves. I'll just wait for the shop to figure it out. Would an engine swap be a cheaper route if it came to that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 I don't understand why they'd want to remove the broken part of the bolt when you can just replace that part like lockmedic said. Starting at 6:30 in the video below he removes it that tensioner mounting piece. If it were my car, I'd replace that part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted November 17, 2015 Author Share Posted November 17, 2015 I don't understand why they'd want to remove the broken part of the bolt when you can just replace that part like lockmedic said. Starting at 6:30 in the video below he removes it that tensioner mounting piece. If it were my car, I'd replace that part. I'm having it replaced thanks to your suggestions. I'm not new to working on cars, but I'm new to Subaru, so thanks for the help. This is my first timing belt car, everything else has had a chain and been pretty simple to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apexi Posted November 17, 2015 Share Posted November 17, 2015 It just seems easier, the part isn't very expensive, and you have fresh (aluminum) threads to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 Well, nothing yet. The shop is going really slow. They said the dealer sent them the wrong parts. They finally got the right parts late Friday, so they are not doing anything until Monday. Geez, I just want my car back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan in Texas Posted November 24, 2015 Author Share Posted November 24, 2015 Well, shop called and there is ZERO compression and the block is f*cked in the f-hole. So now, the issue is how to source an engine for an engine sway. This is Houston and there is not exactly a large Subaru market for parts, so if anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate it. 2008 Legacy 2.5 SOHC Federal emmissions, auto transmission Ugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meier motor sports Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 sorry to hear that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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