Nameless Downpipe: Official 5th Gen GT Install Thread

[fahr_side]

I don't usually push a 3-port BCS on the stg2 car owners. We have so much control authority with the stock setup you don't really gain anything with one. With the 5th gen's very short header you are working pretty much in real time vs. the quite large delays you see on the traditional 'remote location'.

[Ellesedil]

English Racing ended up installing a 3-port EBCS as my boost control was inconsistent after re-installing the stock BPV.

 

Having said that, though, the more I drive my car the less happy I am with the tune. My target boost, I believe, is 17 PSI but I can't reach that. I honestly don't understand why it's like that. Right now, the boost the car can reach is lower than it was with the OTS map.

 

There's a Subaru shop with an in-house tuner here in Portland that I'm contemplating taking my car to and seeing what they think.

 

Edit: well, there's 2 shops if you include COBB Surgeline. But I'm not really considering them right now.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Ellesedil

[FLlegacy]

I feel your frustration Ellesedil I am not sure I am happy with mine, even though its building the target boost and then some, it doesn't feel more powerful than stage 1 ots.

[fahr_side]

^ If either of you want to send me logs to evaluate I'd be happy to look them over.

[FLlegacy]

^ If either of you want to send me logs to evaluate I'd be happy to look them over.

 

Ill get a new one today after work, what would I look for in my logs to show boost leaking past the bpv.

[GTEASER]

I feel your frustration Ellesedil I am not sure I am happy with mine, even though its building the target boost and then some, it doesn't feel more powerful than stage 1 ots.

 

 

Of course not. S1 is typically 16-17 psi. S2 should be 19-20 psi which would be a noticeable increase.

[fahr_side]

Ill get a new one today after work, what would I look for in my logs to show boost leaking past the bpv.

 

High MAFv / rich AFR / high WGDC

 

Of course not. S1 is typically 16-17 psi. S2 should be 19-20 psi which would be a noticeable increase.

 

 

Mmm. 20psi is a bit high on gasoline and stock head bolts, over much mileage, IME.

Edited April 18, 2017 by fahr_side

[Ellesedil]

^ If either of you want to send me logs to evaluate I'd be happy to look them over.

 

I have an issue of finding a place to do 100 MPH around here and I'm assuming a second gear log isn't ideal. I can look into seeing if PIR has tuning nights - looks like they have a Saturday evening drag event almost every week. Here's the log that I received from English. When they sent it, they couldn't be sure if it was the final dyno run log or the second-to-last log. I don't know if this has all of the data you'd want. Based on your most recent reply as I was typing this up, I'm assuming not.

 

Despite a target of 17.5 PSI, the peek boost is 15.7 PSI. I can occasionally reach that on the street according to my AP, but I'm usually pretty consistently under 15 PSI. I'm more often in the high 13's or low 14's than I am 15+. For reference, the stage 1 OTS tune has a boost target of 16 PSI which I could hit or come close enough to hitting pretty often. When I asked about this, particularly in the context that the car wanted to run 20 PSI with a non-leaking BPV, I got a response that largely included things I already knew about or felt unsatisfactory in explaining things. By this point, though, I was already a very, very squeaky wheel and I got the impression that they just wanted to move on to other vehicles they had to work on.

 

Its heat soak in the factory top mount, as soon as the car is on the street it behaves completely differently. Heat build up also affects how efficiently the cat can work, one reason they need deleted in 99% of applications. The stock BOV has a weak spring as engineered by Subaru to fix their horrible choice in IHI turbos. It was meant to be an internal leak on purpose. That is why the aftermarket BOV causes the boost to go up. It doesnt leak because its built properly.

 

EDIT: For completeness sake, the only performance-based mods are the Nameless TBE, Grimspeed EBCS, a "ported" wastegate (see previous posts for the double-quotes), and the Accessport + tune. Everything else, including hoses, are stock.

2012 LGT stage 1 - Throttle test2+ECU Mapping_170306134127.csv

Edited April 18, 2017 by Ellesedil

[GTEASER]

Laughable explanation.

[Zee199969]

is this on 91OCT?

[Ellesedil]

is this on 91OCT?

 

The great state of Oregon has 92 octane. However, I was running the 91 octane stage 1 OTS map with 92 OCT gas prior to the TBE install.

[FLlegacy]

Of course not. S1 is typically 16-17 psi. S2 should be 19-20 psi which would be a noticeable increase.

Not sure I follow your comment.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[FLlegacy]

^ If either of you want to send me logs to evaluate I'd be happy to look them over.

 

Here is my log from today, I don't really see any anomalies in the parameters you mentioned. Thanks for any input you may have.

datalog2.csv

[fahr_side]

I have an issue of finding a place to do 100 MPH around here and I'm assuming a second gear log isn't ideal. I can look into seeing if PIR has tuning nights - looks like they have a Saturday evening drag event almost every week. Here's the log that I received from English. When they sent it, they couldn't be sure if it was the final dyno run log or the second-to-last log. I don't know if this has all of the data you'd want. Based on your most recent reply as I was typing this up, I'm assuming not.

 

Despite a target of 17.5 PSI, the peek boost is 15.7 PSI. I can occasionally reach that on the street according to my AP, but I'm usually pretty consistently under 15 PSI. I'm more often in the high 13's or low 14's than I am 15+. For reference, the stage 1 OTS tune has a boost target of 16 PSI which I could hit or come close enough to hitting pretty often. When I asked about this, particularly in the context that the car wanted to run 20 PSI with a non-leaking BPV, I got a response that largely included things I already knew about or felt unsatisfactory in explaining things. By this point, though, I was already a very, very squeaky wheel and I got the impression that they just wanted to move on to other vehicles they had to work on.

 

 

 

EDIT: For completeness sake, the only performance-based mods are the Nameless TBE, Grimspeed EBCS, a "ported" wastegate (see previous posts for the double-quotes), and the Accessport + tune. Everything else, including hoses, are stock.

Where to start?

 

1. You do not set boost targets at 17.5psi from 1400rpm to redline. Setting unattainable boost targets at such low rpm just has Turbo Dynamics building up where you are so far below boost threshold it's laughable. That is what causes the run up to 8psi or so at 2k4rpm and then the slump at around 2k7rpm and then a slow rise that doesn't see peak until 4k0rpm. You should be running WGDC in the 80 or 90% range up to 2k4rpm or so and then tapering off as you approach the turbo's sweet spot at around 3k2rpm. As you are now you're running a flat 40% or so until 4k0rpm or so, which has spool delayed and uneven. You should be hitting 17psi at 3k2rpm and no later.

2. You do not ask the little VF-54 to do 17.5psi at redline, or really much after about 5k2rpm. Again, asking for more than the turbo can possibly do just loads TDi and TDp up to where it will mess up boost control in the next gear.

 

I'm glad I can't see the AFR or timing curves when boost control is that messed up.

[GTEASER]

Sounds like Ellesedil needs a real tune.

[fahr_side]

Here is my log from today, I don't really see any anomalies in the parameters you mentioned. Thanks for any input you may have.

The good news is that you don't have boost creep at high revs. WGDC is flat at about 62% while boost is tapering off, so it's far from being in danger of running away.

 

You have load going up and down pretty much in lock-step with boost through the midrange, which suggests the BPV leak may not be that bad. A leaky BPV usually sees boost dropping while load increases, because you have air circulating around holding boost down while more air is being pulled through the MAF making the load number higher.

 

OTOH, you are so fat with fuel the stock O2 sensor is pegged full rich so I can't really tell if that's just fat fuel targets or the BPV recirculating so much air it's pushing AFR rich. Inconclusive.

 

Boost control through the midrange is awful with spikes from 17psi to 20psi up and down. I'd put your aftermarket BPV back on to remove leaks from the equation, properly tune boost control from initial spool through to about 4k4rpm, and if AFR doesn't then come down to around 11.2 lower targets until you get that.

[FLlegacy]

I will get a bpv asap, I don't have a my TS setup anymore as that went with the charge pipe, I have definitely noticed the richness. I cant manage anywhere close to 30 mpg on the highway since my tune, even with the cruise set.

 

 

This kind of stuff makes me want to learn tuning!

Edited April 19, 2017 by FLlegacy

[Ellesedil]

Hmm... looks like I'll accelerate my plans to reach out to a different shop. I'm sure the wife will be excited.

[Starks]

Hmm... looks like I'll accelerate my plans to reach out to a different shop. I'm sure the wife will be excited.

Hahaha, I think I'm about in the same boat as you. This race shop I'm talking to is coaxing me into this tune. I'm positive my wife isn't going to like the price.

 

But man would I like to have the face to face and confidence in their ability.

 

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Zee199969]

Hmm... looks like I'll accelerate my plans to reach out to a different shop. I'm sure the wife will be excited.

 

was it you that got tuned at COBB surgeline before the DP?

[Ellesedil]

was it you that got tuned at COBB surgeline before the DP?

 

No. I did originally make an appointment to go stage 2 with COBB last year. I had it timed to be within a few months of receiving the exhaust. However, my clutch started slipping so I converted that appointment to a clutch replacement instead and I didn't really have the available budget to do both. I was on the OTS stage 1 map up until my install with English.

 

I've yet to really see anyone complain about HMS and they appear to have an on-site dyno and tuner so I might chat them up first. If things feel squirrely for some reason, I'll call up COBB. The thing with the singlemass/dualmass flywheel back-and-forth I had to do with COBB when setting up the clutch replacement was weird, although minor. No ones perfect, but it kind of left the impression that they weren't really paying attention to details.

[FLlegacy]

From what I can tell, the ecu and options for tuning with our cars and with the newer STI are very similar. The murkiness begins with the hardware that our cars come with being so specific in some manners (turbo, header...) and not so specific (clutch, flywheel...).

 

Try not to let those kinds of things bother you too much. Subaru really has done something very different with our cars.

[fahr_side]

In terms of the dual AVCS and larger combustion chambers, yes it's similar to the STi. OTOH the exhaust cams are much shorter in lift and duration, and the turbo is more the size of a VF-40, so the similarities are limited.

[FLlegacy]

In terms of the dual AVCS and larger combustion chambers, yes it's similar to the STi. OTOH the exhaust cams are much shorter in lift and duration, and the turbo is more the size of a VF-40, so the similarities are limited.

I was referring to the parameters and tables in the ecm for tuning purposes not the hardware. Things like gear dependent boost limits.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

[fahr_side]

Oh I see. Well, actually you have more control in that regard as you can only set RT caps on two gears on the STi ROM, meaning you can do one long ramp down from 1st to 6th, or do say, 4th ramp down to 6th, or hold high boost to 5th and go lower in 6th. On the LGT ROMs you have 6 rows to work with.