EJ255 replacement options

[K2e2vin]

I should have clarified but it was in the context of the discussion: CANBUS as far as the ECU communication goes. 05-06 the dash(speedometer), ABS, and maybe immobilizer were CANBUS, but the ECU still communicated via the old OBD2 protocol. The newer models, 07 and up LGT, etc., communicate using OBD2 CAN. When you look at the cables, etc. the +07LGT is usually referred to as the CAN models(including the +08WRX)

 

I've search. Many discussions ended with either just a "no, won't work. too expensive", etc. with no explanation or, on a few, a "yes. Just swap in the right harness, ecu, etc. etc.". In other words, nobody had really looked into it.

 

This is the basics of a debate. Take a stance, present evidence.

[derp]

K2e2v2i2n2, You seem awful willing to spend OP's money to find out if an absurd idea will work or not. Not very sound advice to give to someone looking to get back on the road.

 

OP, your best option is going to be with a stock rebuild. Follow the links already posted for a breakdown of associated costs and what you'll need.

[DeltaNu1142]

I dunno, I'd listen to him. He's got an Accord, and a Civic.

 

VTEC².

[AMileHighLGT]

Your absolute cheapest route would be to rebuild that f***** YOURSELF. Next cheapest would be swap a junk yard motor. Please note * cheap as in not paying a mechanic to rebuild your engine, or swap a junkyard motor. *

 

I get the feeling that you won't do it though.

If a shop was doing, I'd think the EJ253 may be the cheapest route. Not sure of what's needed to be done to swap it in, but I know the JDM and older motors require more work than the mechanic may know(I have a version 9 EJ207 in my LGT...a lot had to be done to get it in there and running). The EJ253 was already available in the same chassis, already DBC, etc.

 

When my original EJ255 blew, I priced out a rebuild at a shop(aftermarket parts vs new shortblock) and the price of a swap; the rebuild(either new shortblock or aftermarket parts) was about the same. I went with a swap instead because it was only a tad more expensive; traded price of labor for a little bit more performance. Now that I think about it, the rebuild didn't include the cost of a new or rebuilt turbo...when the motor was pulled the turbo had a lot of play.

This is horrible advice for this guy. He says funds are limited and you start tossing the idea of swapping a JDM or the naturally aspirated higher compression engine in which is a no no on boosted applications.

I was in the same boat as you, except I bought my car with then engine blown so I could rebuild it. I just wanted to get the car on the road so I could drive it, and like you I was on a really strict budget and made the decision to re-build my own short-block because of that. I will argue that rebuilding your own short-block is definitely the cheaper route. It will save you a pretty good chunk of $$$-$$$$ depending upon what you stick in for eternals, or use your stock internals if they're good to go. I went with all new internals and saved around $1000 rather than buying a new SB. That decision didn't come without some work/time, but my car runs like a top and I'm about to break 5000 miles on the rebuild without a problem. I went with a JMP upgraded VF40. Hit him up for info on his turbos, I posted about it in my build thread:

 

 

I posted a complete break-down of what it cost me to do my rebuild you can see it in MrTris' #YNANSB thread:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/ersl-v2-0-238597.html

 

Or in my build thread and turbo info is there as well:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/2005-outback-xt-rebuild-chronicles-238859.html?t=238859&highlight=chronicles

THIS

 

You have a EJ255 shortblock, and then what? OP said said he was having a mechanic do it; so it would be Shortblock+labor vs a complete EJ253 that does not have to be cracked open.

 

As far as "no, it won't work, it's NA" I've seen that a couple times searching but no explanation as to why it wouldn't work; with a post on ClubWRX being the exception saying just swap in the correct harness, etc along with other questions asking the opposite(EJ255/7 into a 2.5i car) As stated before, this was speculation as no one has said why it wouldn't work.

 

You're right. It does work, with enough money time and knowledge, all I assume the op doesn't have. Why would anyone want to? (Besides this guy) Of course you can swap the harness, pcm, cluster etc, but would possibly have to swap the 4eat as well as far as I know they didn't give the 2.5i the 5eat.

The EJ253 from what I can find has a compression ratio of 10:1 which would not work in a boosted application very well. Swapping engines with something other then what came from the factory almost always becomes a problem and is more expensive. As others stated stick with a new oem shortblock and reuse your heads if the machine shop gives them the okay.

THIS

[MaasaiWarrior]

Take it from a guy who has built 2 na engines including one hell of a B20Vtec Integra which I only sold last fall. I'm also about to do a swap on my LGT once the weather warms up here!

 

Oh yes it is possible to make your lgt a 2.5i, you could also put a jet engine in the trunk and use that for thrust, but you might as well sell the damn chassis with the blown engine and just buy a 2.5i, it would be an absurd amount of work.

 

If you don't care about performance, you bought the wrong car in the first place. These cars require maintenance and even with that, they are known for having their issues. Just like any car on the road, but you picked the wrong damn poison. Yes, I'm being harsh with this, but when you ask for advice and have multiple people telling you that the only reasonable way to get your car back on the road is keeping it as a stock LGT, LISTEN

 

K2e2vin, OK it's speculation.... because nobody wants to spend absurd amounts of money to try it, if you're so sure, show us your evidence that it can be done for cheap. You're saying nobody has really looked into it, probably because they looked for 10 mins and saw it just wasn't worth it.

 

Ok so if the op went on what you said there, new engine, harness, ecu and just ignore the immobilizer for this debate. What if there was a discrepancy and the engine won't start due to a protocol problem with say... the fuel pump (just throwing shit out there) and then he has to find a fuel pump that will work with the ecu. OP has to go to the dealer and says I have done this swap and it's not working, what pump do I install now...? I'll tell you this, they'll have no clue.

 

Or he can just swap in a new short block, find a good condition used turbo which there are a bunch on the classifieds, have a rebuild done and there won't be any of the bs problems that will set him back.

Find a good subaru shop and get it done right, that's all I'm saying here. I'm not trying to be an asshole or tell anyone to go suck a dick because their opinions are crazy.

 

I'm just saying get it done right the first time.

[MaasaiWarrior]

Haha AMileHighLGT just beat me to this... I must have been writing for more than 10 mins.

[AMileHighLGT]

I was typing a bit too!

[CloudSeed777]

I don't mean to sound like a dick but if you don't care about performance then why did you buy a LGT? It's a performance vehicle.

 

 

I imagine because it whips the horse-snot out of a 2.5i n/a????

[K2e2vin]

This is horrible advice for this guy. He says funds are limited and you start tossing the idea of swapping a JDM or the naturally aspirated higher compression engine in which is a no no on boosted applications.

 

No, I advised against the JDM motors(which is what the OP brought up...he'd have to do what I did and source more parts to make it work). Again, I'm assuming he wanted to drop in a EJ253 without the turbo(assuming it would even fit, the plumbing would take more work to install). This motor/setup was already available the same gen vehicle(05-06 2.5i). Though, I didn't think about the transmission but that would be something to look into(I'd admit I know nothing about their autos).

 

No, my intention wasn't to get the OP to spend money on that swap...but rather looking into it. There's basically no information out there about it hence why I suggested it. This will really just cost you time. If you don't have time, only option is to spend money. As stated before, everyone keeps saying it's expensive, but nobody is saying what or why. If his fuel pump isn't working for who knows why, then there's more homework to be done; use the manual to trace what allows the pump to work, etc.

 

Personally, I'd find someone willing to trade the LGT shell for a running car.

[K2e2vin]

I dunno, I'd listen to him. He's got an Accord, and a Civic.

 

VTEC².

 

Both of them do not have VTEC. Surprise!

[JMJ5150]

cheapest way is to sell the car...

[MrTris]

cheapest way is to sell the car...

 

/thread.

[AMileHighLGT]

No, I advised against the JDM motors(which is what the OP brought up...he'd have to do what I did and source more parts to make it work). Again, I'm assuming he wanted to drop in a EJ253 without the turbo(assuming it would even fit, the plumbing would take more work to install). This motor/setup was already available the same gen vehicle(05-06 2.5i). Though, I didn't think about the transmission but that would be something to look into(I'd admit I know nothing about their autos).

 

No, my intention wasn't to get the OP to spend money on that swap...but rather looking into it. There's basically no information out there about it hence why I suggested it. This will really just cost you time. If you don't have time, only option is to spend money. As stated before, everyone keeps saying it's expensive, but nobody is saying what or why. If his fuel pump isn't working for who knows why, then there's more homework to be done; use the manual to trace what allows the pump to work, etc.

OK to answer the question that is killing you. When you do a swap like that, with no other information as to what works and what doesn't work its like having an open budget, you don't know how much. You always come across this shit that sets you back and costs more money. Wtf is so hard to understand about that? And to be even more specific with an answer: you go effin research and tell me how cheap it won't be..

[DeltaNu1142]

Both of them do not have VTEC. Surprise!

I could have guessed based on their vintage... if I cared.

 

But look on the bright side; it looks like you've landed on something everyone can agree with.

[boxman]

It's not a honda, you can't plan your upgrades and swaps as though it's a civic. Any one of the guys responding to you has more practical knowledge of the LGT platform that you do, pay attention, they're trying to save you time and effort. You have an opportunity to avoid stupid, but don't seem to be able to do anything but clamor for more stupid than most of us care to watch.

[700watts]

OK, well, that's just the mechanical side of it. Then there's the electrical/ECU side of it. There at least five sensors that differentiate a turbo from an NA engine wiring harness, and ALL of them lead back through the CANBUS (big plug on passenger strut towerr) to the ECU, which is turbo and NA specific.

 

Do we really have to break this down for you? You can't just go switching turbo to NA or vice-versa -- it's not like flipping or switch or hiring an ECU whisperer to say, "Hey, there's no more turbo, just, y'know, use less fuel and stuff, OK?"

Dude you need to recognize stupid earlier and not waste your time.

[AMileHighLGT]

Dude you need to recognize stupid earlier and not waste your time.

I said the same thing

[MrTris]

Dude you need to recognize stupid earlier and not waste your time.

 

Do you not know what disease means?

[The Stig 304]

Wow, guys. Just wow. I can't believe the response since I left work this morning! First off, thank you all for your input. Especially Cloudseed777 for the breakdown. Above and beyond. Now, before I brawl breaks out, let me confirm I meant EJ253 withOUT the turbo. I bought an LGT, so obviously I do care about performance (bad choice of phrase), but more about my wallet. The turbo is awesome, but the ride is what I love most. My parents' OB feels like a shopping cart compare to my go-kart. I mainly was curious if you could just swap the engine, ecu, and (if ness.) the tranny. As K2e2vin stated, there's no definitive answer online. It does sound like more trouble than its worth. Ditto with a JDM.

[The Stig 304]

Anybody know a fair mechanic near 26101 that would have any idea how to under take this task? My mechanic friend and I are pretty convinced we can do a swap in/swap out job, but building one up from damn near scratch... Me thinks my little red wagon is destined for craigslist...

[garygbnj]

I have a vf43 rebuilt-brand new in the box for sale in the forums (2005-2009) for $375. It is a straight swap for the original vf 39 that came in the car. Has thicker metal in the waste gate area vs the vf39. That is as cheap as you will find.

[Merc6]

I'm with Tris on this as well. Dropping a different motor will cause more work than needed. By the time you drop a different motor and all the pieces and paid the shop for "Custom work" to it's going to be a nightmare. People had nightmares sticking with stock only parts and a shop still didn't do them right. Just going with the engine you have will find a way to nickle and dime you past what we may suggest in our shopping lists and build threads. Cheapest and best way from the limited info given about your finances is a $2000 legit beater so you can source out the parts and still have wheels in the mean time. Rental cars will eat your budget up, ask me how I know. When my car broke I still had a bout 3 more years of payments on it and a job that is a county away and no bus line to/from it. Bike and foot is not an option at all. I'm not saying go my route as I picked the beater route and ended up needing engine work on it as well. Ended up buying a brand new middle of the trim gas friendly car and broke the rules by trying to mod it and fix the legacy same time. In a way tuning the Cruze made the commutes more bearable and make me forget I'm driving a heavy FWD compact.

 

TL:DR?

 

Cheapest is swap a 250K used engine in and pray to god(s) it isn't as bad as the one you just pulled out. The way life is, you will get a engine worse than what you have and now you have 2 bad engines to deal with. Funds and time wasted cause this car doesn't like short cuts. I literally took a $200 short cut after cleaning the metal out of my engine by not swapping the damn oil cooler...

 

Next cheapest is cheapest beater car and taking your time getting it back right. This way you can literally order the cheapest part with time and research instead of just clicking buy as fast as you can hoping it shows up before the weekend.

 

Not so cheap way is trying to put an engine that did not come in the car you have in front of you at the moment.

[Merc6]

Wow, guys. Just wow. I can't believe the response since I left work this morning! First off, thank you all for your input. Especially Cloudseed777 for the breakdown. Above and beyond. Now, before I brawl breaks out, let me confirm I meant EJ253 withOUT the turbo. I bought an LGT, so obviously I do care about performance (bad choice of phrase), but more about my wallet. The turbo is awesome, but the ride is what I love most. My parents' OB feels like a shopping cart compare to my go-kart. I mainly was curious if you could just swap the engine, ecu, and (if ness.) the tranny. As K2e2vin stated, there's no definitive answer online. It does sound like more trouble than its worth. Ditto with a JDM.

 

LOL apparently there was more than one page for this thread and I prematurely fired off a comment from the hip.

 

If I were sane I should have ditched the Leggy a long time ago before the engine took a shart. I had this car since almost new so I have too much history with it and just can't seem to let it go. History is mostly the reason you see a few people here with a few rebuilds in that could have literally went into buying another running LGT or another platform..

[Max Capacity]

Anybody know a fair mechanic near 26101 that would have any idea how to under take this task? My mechanic friend and I are pretty convinced we can do a swap in/swap out job, but building one up from damn near scratch... Me thinks my little red wagon is destined for craigslist...

 

 

So how much will the replacement car cost you ?

 

These cars offer great bang for the buck if you do it right the first time. My wagon is my DD, it runs great. No engine issues for the last 51,000 miles. follow my click here link.

 

MrTris has also got great threads to read.

 

If your friend can help you and you have a good machine shop to rebuild the heads you can do this for less money then buying something to take it's place.

 

If your buddy is welling to help rebuild your short block with new stock pistons and bearings your machine shop bill will be less than $900.

 

Call around the auto parts stores or repair shops and find out who they recommend as a good automotive machine shop.

Get prices from that shop, have a plan, write it down.

[garygbnj]

I know of an HONEST RELIABLE SOURCE FOR A USED MOTOR. His name is Paul (I forgot his last name) in Manville, NJ. 908-347-5345. He is a mason by trade. For fun and extra money he buys auction cars and either fixes or makes 1 car out of 2. I have bought an interior and a 5mt from him. All were great-including the transmission (had 101k miles on it from an unmodified lgt). I called him for a motor for my 06 lgt (motor runs but has rod bearing knock-car is for sale in the forums). He has to the best of my recollection an 07 lgt motor with I believe about 100k miles. He wants $1800. I almost bought it and then decided to get a 2010 lgt 6mt.