mkaresh Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 I just entered the 2006 Legacy and Outback into my pricing database at www.truedelta.com. As a fan of the LGT 5-speed wagon, I'm more than a little confused by Subaru's powertrain strategy this year. First off, as others have posted, the LGT wagon is no longer available with a 5-speed. I'm disappointed by this, but figured that they found the market for manual transmission wagons just wasn't there. Guess I should have bought one... But then I see that you can still get the manual in the Outback XT. So, no manual in the enthusiast-oriented Legacy, but one in the SUV wanna-be Outback? Can someone please explain this? Similarly, the manual is gone from the Legacy 2.5i Limited, but not from the Outback 2.5i Limited. Next, I've noted that many people here like their LGT without sunroof and leather. Not an option for 2006. XT also Limited only for 2006. Seems Subaru decided to make the turbo less financially accessible. On the other hand, the cloth XT has been replaced by a cloth 3.0 Outback wagon. Which does make sense, since many people want smoother power than the turbo provides, but don't want to spend the big bucks to get it. Still no six in a Legacy, though. Finally, 17s are standard on all Legacies and Outbacks for 2006, so the GT and XT won't be so easy to tell apart anymore. I don't know if the wheels are the same or not. I hope not. In my experience people want at least some subtle visual differences between the standard car and the one with some power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 The Outback is a much more serious car. That's why we still get the 5MT. The Legacy Wagon is the same thing only it doesn't look quite as nice (missing the body pieces and looks bare). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHLEG Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 I don't get it either. I LOVE my base LGT 5MT. I'm comming from a AWD wagon (it's all I'll drive) w/ leather, a sunroof and a 5AT (Volvo XC...had a '98 5MT Outback before that) and it was my first time for all options together. After 3 years w/ that car, I wanted a 5MT again, I rarely used the sunroof and really did not like leather. I got the Volvo because I'm doing ok in life and am in a position to afford $40k car. I realized though that I don't NEED a $40k car and I'm SOOOOOO happy w/ my new $25K car! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rao Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 It is purely a cost cutting strategy; they are consolidating models across the board. It might not be a smart move, but they must think it is. Rob IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR CAR YOU SHOULD NEVER DRIVE IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 I suspect that the OBXT accounts for 80% or more of the wagon production for turbo models. The deletion of the 5MT option on the LGT wagon therefore may be unimportant in the big scheme of things at SOA. The enthusiasts are the only ones who will notice. Sad, because the wagon makes the car even more a sleeper than the Camry-look-alike LGT sedan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdw Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 I ended up buying a manual LGT wagon last month. I was going to wait to buy a new car but learning the manual would no longer be offered in the wagon hastened my decision. However, the car I bought had sat on the lot for quite awhile. It was built in 11/04 and I bought it in 8/05. I just don't think they were selling. That said, I don't get why they'd drop it because I'm quite sure the fixed cost of keeping the option available isn't much and having it in the OBXT makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 In many ways, the OBXT was a better fit for me as I sold a Jeep to get the LGT. I knew I wanted better handling over the extra ground clearance, so my decision was made easier as both cars offered a 5MT. Had it only been in the OBXT, I would have gone that way for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkaresh Posted September 18, 2005 Author Share Posted September 18, 2005 Dropping the manual is harder for me to understand, as they have to still have the transmission in the plant for the OBXT. Dropping the cloth, on the other hand, reduces the number of different seats they have to inventory, as the LGT uses a different, more heavily bolstered seat from the regular Legacy. That said, I actually sat in on many such discussions in the course of performing research for my Ph.D., and the manufacturers often take an overly simplistic approach. Overall, cutting build combinations simplifies manufacturing and saves money. But cutting some combinations saves more than cutting others--seats do tend to be a big one. The manufacturers don't always have this level of detail at their fingertips when making these decisions, though. So they just cut for the sake of cutting. I wasn't aware that the OBXT was so much more popular than the LGT. On my website people actually research the Legacy about 50% more often than the Outback. This suggests that the Outback customer is older and let net-savvy. No big surprise there, I suppose. But the dealers around here also seem to have as many Legacies as Outbacks on the lot, something you never saw before the 2005 model year. And I'd expect those who want a manual to also want the better-handling car. It'd be interesting to hear their reasoning. Quite likely they were reacting to sales data, but I'd love to see the numbers. Do they ever speak up on these boards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 I wasn't aware that the OBXT was so much more popular than the LGT. On my website people actually research the Legacy about 50% more often than the Outback. Note that I said LGT wagon vs. OBXT. Keep that in mind and your point above is explained. Younger peeps are primarily looking for info on the LGT sedan. The LGT wagon is as odd to the WRX crowd as the OBXT is to the Outback crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakuun Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 Well, when it comes to 'staple' The Outback was the first popular subaru over here, and is still more popular. I got into Subaru with the Impreza, and hadn't even considered the sleeper Legacy untill I found the Impreza to small for my needs. I had never considered the OB simply because of it's relative popularity, that and, I had a 4x4 truck for any serious off-roading needs. So there it was, the sleepy little Legacy, and so today it remains, in relative obscurity, and rarity.. just the way I tend to like it. hmm.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 On Nasioc: August Sales:7,441 = ALL LEGACY sales in Aug '05Of that..5,569 = Legacy and Outback wagons1,772 = Legacy and Outback sedans 5,044 = Outback sales 2,397 = Non-Outback Legacys (both sedans & wagons) 777 = Legacy Wagons Even though Wagons make up the big part (67%) of Legacy and Outback sales, Legacy Wagon Sales are a mere 10%. Even if you counted GT's at half of 777 and manuals at half of that...It'd be a tiny 194 cars 2.6% of Legacy and Outback sales. I HIGHLY doubt 50% of the cars would be GT's as subaru sells a lot more NA Legacys and Outbacks than turbos. And then it would again be a stretch to say half of those were manuals. that leaves some number less than 2.6%. It may seem crazy to us because we are enthusiats, But it probably was a good business decision by Subaru. If they actually MARKETED the car it may have been a different story. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firedawgs Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Good point B4. I agree that people in the LGT market or not looking to mod their car like the ones on this forum. The LGT/OBXT are the flagship of Subaru. If you want the rally car then buy the STi. Updated my vBGarage: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brady Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Dropping the manual is harder for me to understand, as they have to still have the transmission in the plant for the OBXT. Dropping the cloth, on the other hand, reduces the number of different seats they have to inventory, as the LGT uses a different, more heavily bolstered seat from the regular Legacy. I haven't sat in a base legacy, so I could be wrong here, but I don't think this is true. From what I've read, the seats are the same in the base model and the LGT (in cloth) and in the base Legacy, all you have to do is buy the switch pod and plug it in and you magically have heated seats in your Legacy. The seats were the same, IIRC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkaresh Posted September 19, 2005 Author Share Posted September 19, 2005 I think the seats in the GT are more heavily bolstered. I have sat in both, but not recently. And the 2005 brochure says the "aggressively bolstered performance-design front seats" are only in the GT. B4, thanks for those stats. Unfortunately they don't break down even finer, to compare XT vs. GT wagon sales by transmission. I'm actually half-serious here. Clearly looking at just a few hundred a month in any case. When it comes down to it, there just aren't that many true enthusiasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeFlyIsTheEye Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 More serious??? Please explain. The Outback is a much more serious car. That's why we still get the 5MT. The Legacy Wagon is the same thing only it doesn't look quite as nice (missing the body pieces and looks bare). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmarton Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Outback more serious? All the extra cladding and ground clearance for what - going to the mall parking lot? I've despised the consumer fetishism that put all of these SUVs and variants on the road in the first place and 99.9% percent of them will ever go off pavement or see a day of work. So many people believe that "they are what they drive," so they see a vehicle with an image of "stong and rugged" as a direct reflection of them. That's a laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkaresh Posted September 19, 2005 Author Share Posted September 19, 2005 People here complain about the tires on the LGT. I can only imagine what they think of those on the OB. On the other hand, based on the treadwear rating those on the OB should last quite a bit longer. I suppose the extra ground clearance might come in handy after especially heavy snows, like we have up here in Michigan about 3-4 times a winter. My current car, a Protege5, got stuck between my driveway and the main road through the neighborhood a couple of times because the county doesn't promptly plow it and the road long the side of my house doesn't get enough traffic to smoosh the snow down. So maybe the XT would make more sense for me anyway. But the other 99.95% of the time I drive a car I'd rather be closer to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PGT Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Apparently your saracasm meter is b0rked as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feersum dreadnaught Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 On Nasioc: August Sales: 777 = Legacy Wagons Even though Wagons make up the big part (67%) of Legacy and Outback sales, Legacy Wagon Sales are a mere 10%. Even if you counted GT's at half of 777 and manuals at half of that...It'd be a tiny 194 cars 2.6% of Legacy and Outback sales. I HIGHLY doubt 50% of the cars would be GT's as subaru sells a lot more NA Legacys and Outbacks than turbos. And then it would again be a stretch to say half of those were manuals. that leaves some number less than 2.6%. It may seem crazy to us because we are enthusiats, But it probably was a good business decision by Subaru. If they actually MARKETED the car it may have been a different story. It is a good thing to be 1 of the 194 sane subaru buyers last year. Coming up on one year of 5MT LGT Wagon ownership, at just over 20,000 miles driven; and I could not be happier. I'm just hoping SOA has their act back together by 2011 or so, when it will be time to pass this one down to my daughter, and go shopping for whatever goes best. by then, I predict it will have some kind of hybrid action - but hopefully with a 7MT STi version.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Guys- it is simply a more serious car. Outback owners in particular are naturally more serious. See my 6000+ posts as examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The B4 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 I reject your reality and substitute my own. ...says it all [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakuun Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 Doesn't really help that we're fighting a seemingly losing battle over here for our Subies. I do on-site work for a technical firm..one of our clients works in trend forcasting for all major auto companies. As a quip I asked a guy who's PC I was fixing what Subys outlook was over the next 10 years. His reply.. "Not good.. well, Not bad, but they have a niche market over here and there isn't a lot of demand outside of the people who already own them." I'd say this seems to be true since Oz seems to get all the goodies.. but that may just be because it's far less expensive to import JDM's there. I always grin when I pass an ancient Loyal / Leggy here.. I know in 10 years, that'll be me, and like now.. I'll be the only person with one that anyone sees all day. I like the relative obscurity / rareity of my car. As for OB's being more 'serious' Jedi you personally are more of a counter argument for that statement then anything... I mean, if you were the standard for a "serious" OB owner.. I'd not take it seriously at all. hehe j/k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Jedimaster* Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 And once again, the sarcasm blinds them all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakuun Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 And once again, the sarcasm blinds them all Not quite jedi.. I got it.. Seems my sarcasm is stronger.. thats because I'm on the Darkside.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slickvic Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 I'd say this seems to be true since Oz seems to get all the goodies.. but that may just be because it's far less expensive to import JDM's there. Aussies drive on the same side of the road as in Japan, so they dont have to retool the car for that market. Even less $$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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