jasejase Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 all the cool kids gots da coils bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 actually, all the smart people have fixed perch struts. 90% of the CO owners here have garbage CO's only a select few here have a complete understanding and appreciation for a proper CO system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted April 8, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 8, 2015 actually, all the smart people have fixed perch struts. 90% of the CO owners here have garbage CO's only a select few here have a complete understanding and appreciation for a proper CO system. I run spacers with my coilovers. And I managed to break one of them as well. I haz no understand. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 broke a spacer or a CO? i haz no understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted April 8, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 8, 2015 broke a spacer or a CO? i haz no understand. Haha, coilover--broke at the bottom mounting point (rear). Sucked. They were previously owned by Drew888, so really he probably broke it and I just finished it off "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 what brand were they? meagan or BC or some other horrible garbage brand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted April 8, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 8, 2015 what brand were they? meagan or BC or some other horrible garbage brand? KW (RCE Tarmac rebranded). And they still are. Replaced the rear pair with new, reinstalled. Love em, insanely better than previous tokico / swift combination in every way--except when they break "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 well, KW is technically a mediocre brand in the scheme of things. its a shame though that they broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted April 8, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 8, 2015 whitetiger = current angry suspension nazi. Love it. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted April 8, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 8, 2015 well, KW is technically a mediocre brand in the scheme of things. its a shame though that they broke. Yeah. They're entry level racing or top level street, however you want to look at it I guess. I'm not gonna run Ohlins on a car that has so far seen one autox event and is about to see a 2nd event approx. 1 year later. "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 its all from experience. ive owned a range of shock brands, and have an in with a lot of the national autox competitors. you learn how bad some of the option on the market really are. ther are really only a select few companies that make a decent shock, and they are the same weather you drive a street car or race F1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 They're entry level racing or top level street what if i told you that your opinion of those is still too skewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted April 8, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 8, 2015 what if i told you that your opinion of there here is still too skewed. engrish? By all means, enlighten me. I know you're speaking from experience and like getting your reviews and what not. I'd actually be curious on your "levels" of available setups for these cars. But kind of thread jacking here. Sorry jase "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 engrish? By all means, enlighten me. I know you're speaking from experience and like getting your reviews and what not. I'd actually be curious on your "levels" of available setups for these cars. But kind of thread jacking here. Sorry jase Too bad waspy deleted his cheap c/o thread... Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 fixed my engrish. CO systems used to be a much rarer thing to see, now cheap systems have flooded the market so much that its hard to really see whats truly good. the focus of any CO or shock for that matter should be the valving, that's where all the tech goes. Few companies have the knowledge and resources to achieve the tolerances needed to make a properly functioning shock valve. This is compounded even more when you incorporate adjust-ability to that valving. Very few companies make an adjuster that actually does what is advertised. Most adjusters are garbage. see here - http://www.farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets6.html and here - http://www.farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets18.html (take some time and read that whole site. it really is world changing.) Its also hard for these small companies to make 2 shocks that are matched as well. You will never get consistency with an off the shelf CO kit, ever. This is true with fixed perch struts as well. But some come close, and Koni is one of them. So what this all means, is that when you buy a CO system for $1k or even up to $2k, you would think that dampening adjustment should work as advertised but it does not. That means you just basically got crappy struts with height adjustment. The only way to be sure that your dampers are gonna do what you want is to have all 4 dyno'ed to prove the valving works and that the adjusters provide good rage and that 1 side is equal to the other. For the RCE T1's, its good that RCE has developed them some, but unless you got you set dyno'ed, there is no way to show that they are doing what you want. KW themselves are really no more of a reputable company than Tein, its just that alot of smaller suspension shops like RCE make them better than they normally would be. so for me, the RCE T1's are entry level street/ casual autoxer. Anything less is garbage. Mid level street/autox would be the Ohlins or maybe AST 4100s and MCS 1WNRs but now we are getting in to kits with dampers that have some real development behind them. These COs are not off the shelf kits like the ones marketed on this site and you will almost always get dyno plots with your order to prove what they do. You order them to your spec with your chosen spring rates, then wait 3-5 weeks for construction and delivery. a complete kit will be in the high 2k or low 3k price range. These shocks are still only single adjustable(rebound only). After this we have the Top level street/serious autoxer/avid track day guy. This is where you start seeing the double adjustable (compression/rebound) coilovers, some with remote reservoirs. CO's like AST 5200, Moton club sport, JRZ RS, MCS 2WNR/ Penske 8300. These shocks have serious development with SCCA autoxers and are amazing on the street. (i have the MCS 2WNRs on my mx-5). The price point on these are the high $3k to $5k. this kind of pricing may sound ridiculous to most, but they are still not full race level stuff. After that, 3-way and 4-way CO's from the brands i listed along with sachs, Bilstein and a couple others can easily break the $10k price point for Subaru applications. the bottom line is this, people just need to realize that when they buy cheap CO's, they are buying cheap, poorly engineered shocks for the sake of having height adjust-ability. They rarely have any experience on what a good shock feels like, and they will just convince themselves that what they got rides ok, when it really doesn't because they don't have anything really to compare it to other than stock. Buy hey they think it handles better because the springs are stiffer. In a perfect world. we would have aftermarket fixed perch springs that gave people the ride height they wanted for around $3-500 and then you can take the nearly $2k one would spend on a CO kit and have a good shock shop put some sweet valving in the stock shock bodies. the closest thing we have to this is Koni's and your choice of spring. And that's what i always recommend to people instead of some crap CO kit. /rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Funny...that's what my suspension tuner said too when I asked him to CB my BC Racing c/o. My response was "There is no one else doing what I'm doing, and I've never done it before. So, I'd have no way to give the CO maker any useful data on how to build my CO". After the 2nd CB, they recommended sending the CO out for dyno testing, at about $500-1000. I figured 1 more CB would get it close enough. Ultimately, I learned to adjust my driving for the many issues with the cheap CO. For the cost of a decent set of customized CO, I bought the Miata. And never took the wagon to the track again, leaving it with a horrible ride on the street. Looking back, the CO were educational and the best option at the time. To do again, I'd still buy something else for a track toy, unless the other LGT racecar was still for sale. Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasejase Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 What the hell happened in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators BarManBean Posted April 8, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 8, 2015 What the hell happened in here. Get out, this thread doesn't belong to you anymore, LOL "Bullet-proof" your OEM TMIC! <<Buy your kit here>> Not currently in stock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasejase Posted April 8, 2015 Author Share Posted April 8, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Get out, this thread doesn't belong to you anymore, LOL :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhitter Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 the closest thing we have to this is Koni's and your choice of spring. And that's what i always reccomend to people instead of some crap CO kit. /rant What are your thoughts on the Bilstein HDs? My OBXT build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBlack-V Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I can do your alignment with dental floss, a sharpie and some chewing gum. I was 0. And I'm still a zero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetiger Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 What are your thoughts on the Bilstein HDs? Bilstein is a large well known and reputable shock maker. They have a range of products, but the lower end of the range, including the HD's are really nothing more than a OEM replacement shock. having said this, bilstein shocks are very consistent, even better than koni, but for this particular application, if you compare the valving of both off the shelf units, id go with koni. Its just better valved for aftermarket springs. Having said this, there are a boat load of shops that can build and revalve bilstein shocks to make than way better than the stock HD valving. from here - http://www.farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets18.html Bilstein makes amazing shocks - they are mechanically simple, parts are dirt cheap and readily available, and the innards of their street shocks and their full-race shocks are identical. Crack open a Bilstien street shock, and inside are the same parts as inside their NASCAR shocks. That means that there is a simple conversion process (involving welding a boss onto the shock body to fit a Shraeder valve into the gas chamber) to turn an off-the-shelf street Bilstein into a full-race, user-serviceable, user-revalvable NASCAR Bilstein. off the shelf units are very convenient, but nothing beats a set of custom built, dyno-tuned and matched shocks. With a set of the Bils, you can have them sent out and turned in to some amazing stuff for not too much money. You can do the same with konis as well, but if you are gonna go custom, bilstein all the way. YOu can even have Penske canisters added to get real good adjustments if you are willing to put down some coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boxkita Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 If you haven't been to the farnorthracing.com site, it's well worth your time. Very opinionated however has the experience to back it up. Thread jack (again) - Reading http://www.farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets15.html was interesting Build my car Boxkita Track days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laz Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I can do your alignment with dental floss, a sharpie and some chewing gum. Oh you want the Special then? --- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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