Perscitus' 2010 3.6R Build Thread

[Perscitus]

Word. I'm thinking of running a 15 mm and switching to coils and dropping it another bit. Just wondering how they were and if there's anything to take into account with them. *the spacers

I was happy with the Ichiba v2 spacers, but there were a few gotcha's to watch out for:

 

1. Depending on your wheel specs (and whether they have stud pockets), you have to balance choosing a thick enough spacer to clear the stock studs and not offset the wheels too much to cause rubbing or require a pull.

 

2. Forum consensus is that if you're going with spacers that have their own/secondary studs and need to clear the stock studs - the spacers need to be 17mm or thicker. At 17mm, you still need stud pockets on the wheels, otherwise they won't sit flush. 20mm and more, the stock studs are fully hidden and no pockets are required. This of course adds either 17 or 20mm to your wheel offset - which can be too much up front, unless you're using stock wheels (+55, 7.5").

 

3. The secondary studs on the spacers have a tendency to fail. At least 1-2 tend to brake off, leaving the wheel torqued down with just the remaining 3-4. Consider replacing the studs with some ARP Titanium wheel studs. Thing is, this becomes $$$ very quickly.

 

To me, there are likely a few reason for this:

a. Car's curb weight per axle carried by the studs (since the hub centric rings, if any, just seat the spacer, NOT the wheel anymore - they are subject to too much weight and with time, fail).

b. Relatively high torque supplied by the engine/drivetrain to the wheels.

c. Cheap/poor quality spacer studs.

d. Tendency of the studs to fail under specific loads, force directions (which happen with spacers installed but not with hub-centric wheel installs)

 

4. Proper install is a bit of an art. Ideally the spacers need to be both hub (via studs) and bore centric - otherwise at least use or come with a hub-centric ring. Hub must be very clean, with no uneven surface. From there, the stock studs are best torqued down to Subaru spec (89ftlbf I believe for our cars) with a drop of Locktite RED (yes!) per stock stud. This effectively mates the spacers to the hub semi-permanently. They should be though of as part of the hub from now on. Next, you want to install the wheel onto the secondary (from the spacer) set of studs. Re-use any wheel hub centric rings or get new ones if needed. Torque down to the same spec, no Locktite this time of course Drive around for 60-120 miles. Remove wheels, re-torque the spacers. Replace wheels. Then inspect the spacers and studs and re-torque as needed every few K miles.

 

Some good info (I got the spacers from AutoCityImports and the ARP studs from Mach V):

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/epic-ichiba-wheel-spacer-post-210730.html

http://legacygt.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/fastwrx-com-mach-v-motorsports-63.html

http://www.fastwrx.com/search?type=product&q=spacer

[ncfree]

Pers you are a god my friend. Hahaha thank you for all the info. This will be extremely helpful, It seems as though I may just consider different wheels with less of an offset and a bit wider instead, if i could sell my old ones it would come to near the same price in the end after buying spacers and it would be a lot more reliable. Thank you. I'm gonna have to do some serious thinking now.

[Perscitus]

Word! That's exactly what I did, sold the GTC01s (which I loved but didn't love their offset), sold the spacers, picked up a wider and slightly lower offset wheel - so that all in all my 'effective offset' is now almost exactly the same as with the spacers (within 1-2mm) but without any of the hassle. That plus I have more wheel closer to the strut housing, mimicing stock setup and I can now grab a set of 245/40-45s when these 225/45s wear out.

 

Bumping the build thread with some burned-in Raptor EZ36D Headers and AMR/AutoMaster full exhaust pics and the new Rear LCAs with Camber adjustment. Hope this gives you guys some ideas if you pickup the headers.

 

I've also included two pics of my Whiteline 22mm RSB (I have it set on medium 23mm now). I double checked the install (RSB orientation, endlinks, etc. and all is well) - however ever since I installed it, its bugged me how it comes right up against the spare tire hump. And now I see that it must rub against it (marks, some rubbed off paint) exactly in the middle of the bar.

 

I've seen some others on the forum had a similar issue with Whiteline and other RSBs, all depending on their design. Any tips short of taking a pry bar to the wheel well (I'd rather avoid it, already took a beating for the diffuser install, lol)? I tried changing the soft, medium, hard RSB settings - no difference. Still comes right up against the spare wheel hump.

[fredrik94087]

The headers come out as 2" ID, correct? And you went with 3" after the Y?

 

Were those mandrel bends, or by pipe bender...can't remember.

[GTEASER]

Those are definitely all mandrel. Looks great Perscitus!!!

[minuccims]

I never had problems with the spacer's studs. I needed the spacers on for the winter setup (OEM wheels) to clear the Brembos but removed them for the summer setup with the proper offset to clear the Brembos.

 

The shallow nuts were a problem. Be sure you have a very good thin wall 6-point socket (17mm). I purchased a second set after the second season.

 

 

I can confirm 17 mm spacers are the minimum for use with OEM wheels. I used 15mm spacers which hit the back of the stud pockets. Needed to remove some material from the stud pockets so the studs would not interfere.

[Perscitus]

The headers come out as 2" ID, correct? And you went with 3" after the Y? Were those mandrel bends, or by pipe bender...can't remember.

Very close Fredrik... From the updated first post:

- RAPTOR EZ36D SS Headers (2.25 ID) - AMR AutoMaster Custom Header-back Catted Mid-Pipe with SS Flex Coupler (re-using stock cats in stock locations but with 2.25->2.5->3.0)

I didn't take the ID of each exhaust port or the individual runners, but the combined header exit flange is 2.25" ID. From there we mated them to 2.5" ID piping between the headers and the cats and from the cats to the start of the catback flange, at 3.0" ID. This is where we also welded in the Vibrant 14" resonator, as close to the catback flange on the mid-pipe as possible.

Yup, mandrel bent.

[fredrik94087]

I wonder if I can go 2" and then to a 2.5" out....

[ncfree]

Well. It's official. I want the whiteline rsb upside down and run it that way but with a bit longer hangars on the exhaust and the clearance is perfect. headers.

Thanks minu for the confirmation.

Pers, I actually flipped the whiteline rsb and run it that way and the clearance is perfect. I have 1/2 extended hangars though.

[ncfree]

*other guys have bent in the spare well.

[stevenc1703]

Word! That's exactly what I did, sold the GTC01s (which I loved but didn't love their offset), sold the spacers, picked up a wider and slightly lower offset wheel - so that all in all my 'effective offset' is now almost exactly the same as with the spacers (within 1-2mm) but without any of the hassle. That plus I have more wheel closer to the strut housing, mimicing stock setup and I can now grab a set of 245/40-45s when these 225/45s wear out.

 

Bumping the build thread with some burned-in Raptor EZ36D Headers and AMR/AutoMaster full exhaust pics and the new Rear LCAs with Camber adjustment. Hope this gives you guys some ideas if you pickup the headers.

 

I've also included two pics of my Whiteline 22mm RSB (I have it set on medium 23mm now). I double checked the install (RSB orientation, endlinks, etc. and all is well) - however ever since I installed it, its bugged me how it comes right up against the spare tire hump. And now I see that it must rub against it (marks, some rubbed off paint) exactly in the middle of the bar.

 

I've seen some others on the forum had a similar issue with Whiteline and other RSBs, all depending on their design. Any tips short of taking a pry bar to the wheel well (I'd rather avoid it, already took a beating for the diffuser install, lol)? I tried changing the soft, medium, hard RSB settings - no difference. Still comes right up against the spare wheel hump.

I have the same bar on the same setting using whiteline adjustable endlinks as well . If you adjust them higher the bar will drop out of the way and surprisingly handles better in that position. Im kinda surprised that you haven't gotten adjustable lcas yet being such a pioneer in the legacy 3.6r world.

[stevenc1703]

I'm really close to pulling the trigger on these headers, I've found my install guy and i can get the cash but my biggest concern is the tune. Do you think it's safe to drive with these headers for a couple days without being re-tuned? I know you said that you were getting afr's in the 9s and that kinda scares me even though i know that's probably only during wot and i could avoid that till i was tuned.

[fredrik94087]

I have the same bar on the same setting using whiteline adjustable endlinks as well . If you adjust them higher the bar will drop out of the way and surprisingly handles better in that position. Im kinda surprised that you haven't gotten adjustable lcas yet being such a pioneer in the legacy 3.6r world.

 

He has adjustable lca just not in that pic.

[Perscitus]

Do you think it's safe to drive with these headers for a couple days without being re-tuned? I know you said that you were getting afr's in the 9s and that kinda scares me even though i know that's probably only during wot and i could avoid that till i was tuned.

Yeah, you should be fine for a couple of days. Running rich @ WOT is safer than lean , except the load and requested torque tables will be out of whack as well. Rob @ AMR was 'amazed' (and not in a good way, more of an PITA-more-work and surprised-professional way) how much he needed to change the tune after we slapped on the headers. He said everything was way off, and for the first time on my car - he needed to rescale the MAF.

I have the same bar on the same setting using whiteline adjustable endlinks as well . If you adjust them higher the bar will drop out of the way and surprisingly handles better in that position. Im kinda surprised that you haven't gotten adjustable lcas yet being such a pioneer in the legacy 3.6r world.

Awesome! I will try this. Adjustable LCAs went in recently - they're in this pic - they are just 'sleeper' OEM looking ones. Cheap compared to the others but they do the job! I've got +/-2deg of camber adjustment with them and that's all I needed.

He has adjustable lca just not in that pic.

'Sleeper' SPC adjustable LCAs! They're in the pic, but they look almost exactly like OEM parts. Notice the adjustment cam located at the outboard end of each arm? It looks like a silver washer. Plus they also come with a an offset toe bushing to increase the range of the factory toe cam. For now I didn't install it, didn't need it.

 

They were super easy to install (didn't even need to remove the rear wheels).

http://www.subispeed.com/2015-subaru-wrx/suspension/camber-caster-adjustment/spc-rear-adjustable-control-arms-and-toe-kit-2015-wrx-2013-2015-brz

 

I picked them up as a pair from THMotorsports. They had a great sale price of $170 shipped. Even @ ~$200 they are a great bang for the buck - 50% cheaper than most brand-name ones with more adjustments than I'll ever need for DD:

http://thmotorsports.com/i-1760655.aspx?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=1760655-Subaru-BRZ&utm_campaign=GoogleShoppingSean-Subaru-BRZ&adtype=pla&kw=&gclid=CNv8murWzcMCFXRk7AodkzoAQg

 

BTW - just saw this posted on the AU Liberty forum:

[Perscitus]

I have the same bar on the same setting using whiteline adjustable endlinks as well . If you adjust them higher the bar will drop out of the way and surprisingly handles better in that position. Im kinda surprised that you haven't gotten adjustable lcas yet being such a pioneer in the legacy 3.6r world.

Steven, quick question here. I was reading the install info for KLC182 and I want to understand what you did exactly.

 

Did you extend the center turn buckles (in gold) on the endlinks as much as possible and then tightened the upper/lower lock nuts to set that in place?

 

Maybe I'm not seeing it without getting back under the car, but wouldn't extending them cause the RSB to raise even closer against the spare tire hump?

Z5370.pdf

[stevenc1703]

Yes exactly that, it does change the position downward but not by much

[stevenc1703]

Ill try to get some pictures but I'm at the point in my life that i go to work to relax lol

[stevenc1703]

Picture time http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/09/f7db405f1d040226f7332dd987b735fd.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/09/aeba8310ab1923c53c1d4de0366735f5.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15/02/09/cbeb9e131d76872e8b470234dad32cea.jpg

[nadracer]

AZP flipped mine upside down saying I had it in wrong. I bent the wheel well slightly to make it fit. I did take their suggestion but only found it kept hitting the exhaust when I'd entering parking lots. I didn't notice any difference in performance with it in the "right way" (factory position) or upside down. I put it back to prevent it from notching my exhaust. Keep an eye out for the sound if you run into the same issue.

 

 

Well. It's official. I want the whiteline rsb upside down and run it that way but with a bit longer hangars on the exhaust and the clearance is perfect. headers.

Thanks minu for the confirmation.

Pers, I actually flipped the whiteline rsb and run it that way and the clearance is perfect. I have 1/2 extended hangars though.

[ncfree]

That's why I have extended exhaust hangars. Makes it clear the exhaust flipped upside down. Either option works.

 

AZP flipped mine upside down saying I had it in wrong. I bent the wheel well slightly to make it fit. I did take their suggestion but only found it kept hitting the exhaust when I'd entering parking lots. I didn't notice any difference in performance with it in the "right way" (factory position) or upside down. I put it back to prevent it from notching my exhaust. Keep an eye out for the sound if you run into the same issue.

[BigBopper]

Just for you my Brother.

[mhoran89]

Damn man I didn't know you had done this many mods to her! Now that Spring is rolling around it's definitely time for me to give her a good bath and some buffer work. Anyways, Happy Easter from 36K feet up in the air going 500+ mph!

[Perscitus]

Thx Matt! Where are you flying to?

A few more mods now, I have to update the build thread again, lol.

 

Next week - test pipes or race/metal cats (stock cats collapsing with header flow and tuned 3.6R EGTs).... Poor baby has a inverted 'sinus infection' lol.

 

I'm driving down to FL in two weeks so would be great if you'd have time to give her some good TLC once back (May-2nd and on) before Liberty Subaru's event.

 

Happy Easter (and Passover) all!

[KFCConspiracy]

Next week - test pipes or race/metal cats (stock cats collapsing with header flow and tuned 3.6R EGTs)

 

What have you noticed that's indicated that? I'm on the lookout as another 3.6R with pretty much identical mods to yours on the exhaust side and tuning side (I know I'm a copy cat).

[Perscitus]

Three things via the 'magic' of BtSsm, one through OBDII/TorquePro and three more physical:

 

1. Random single-event mis-fires in cylinder 2 and 6 (both on Bank 2 which, unlike Bank 1 with current aftermarket tuning options is not directly controlled)

2. pulled timing in the higher load/rpm cells of the timing tables (as much as -6 degrees)

3. lowered IAM after a few WOT pulls... which eventually creeps back up to 1.0, but only if you stay <50-75% throttle

4. high cat temperatures >1400-1600F (you can monitor this with OBDII loggers, ideally during extended cruise on the highway at a relatively high speed and steady RPM)

4. strong smell (industrial materials or chemicals burning, nothing like fuel) from the exhaust after each dyno pull

5. visual inspection at night of cats with engine running after a highway cruise or a few WOT pulls (if they will be glowing hot or hotter at the inlet than at the outlet (IR thermometer)... then bingo.

6. with the exhaust fully cooled off, give the cats a shake and listen for any rattles.

if you hear some, chances are the substrate inside has at least began to break up and will soon start to collapse/clog the rest.

 

Net effect - with the pulled timing, exhaust restriction and back-pressure buildup (especially at high-RPM under WOT) - 25-30% down on power!