Driving evo's makes me hate my legacy.

Yeah I said it. I love the rawness.

 

What do I need to change to get my car to handle like this thing?

 

I realize the Eibach's, while nice, arent going to cut it. coilovers are in the future. i think when the struts wear out ill find the stiffest back-breaking coilovers i can find and change to a more aggressive wheel/tire

 

Here is what Im already doing/have:

-Whiteline sways, adjustable, front and rear (setting recommendation for 'neutral'?)

-rallitek endlinks f/r

-LCA front bushing kit

-rear diff bushing kit

-kartboy pitchstop

-Group N engine/tranny

 

 

Planned future:

-Cusco Subframe braces and strut braces

 

Brakes:

How well do the legacy brakes work with upgraded rotors/pads? I dont track the car, so I probably dont need to spend huge $ on the brembo/stoptech route if brake upgrades will stop it a little quicker and keep fade at bay.

 

what else? Steering bushings? others?

 

thanks

Hey Kurt,

I have a lot of suspension mods done to my car and can hang with modded Evos and STI's on the track. I'll run through the list quick and give my impressions:

First, an alignment is a huge factor in performance. You need a lot of negative camber up front to keep a good contact patch for the tire. I run -1.9 during summer when I am street driving and doing track days

The struts are the workhorses of the suspension. They are the biggest handling upgrade imo, especially since the stock struts have trouble damping the stock springs even.

The LCA bushings made a nice improvement, so I recommend getting some heavy duty steering rack bushings too. I have both and with a stiff sidewall tire, the steering response is phenomenal (Dunlop Starspecs FTW).

 

I would recommend a set of quality struts if you really want to take your Legacy's performance to the next level. I run Bilsteins and STI pinks on my car since the roads here are quite rough and I didn't want to sacrifice too much ride quality. The BC racing RAM series coilovers would be a great option for you (which we can get for you). I think thats the major piece that is missing from your build right now.

 

For brakes, I still run the stock calipers with track pads, ATE fluid, and DBA 4000 rotors. I got 40,000 miles out of my stock rotors even with a number of track days. If you take care of the brakes, they will take care of you I am very careful to let the brakes cool before the car is parked. I really like the Carbotech track pads (XP8), but if you want a pad that is fine on the street and can still handle light track duty, it would have to be Hawk HP+ (a step up from HPS). You will notice too that the braking will improve once the suspension is done.

-Franz

 

Evo's are fun cars, but it sure is nice having a comfortable, quiet drive home after tearing it up on track.

Thanks for the input. Ill order the steering rack bushings this week when I order the rest of my stuff from you guys...they cant be that expensive.

 

The Shocks/struts wouldnt be bad, I just cant justify spending 8-900 for springs and shocks when getting coilovers is only about another 100 bucks on top of it for more adjustability, and less pain at install time....

Yep. There were a lot fewer coilover options when I went with Bilsteins and pinks a few years ago, so there are a lot of good options now. The steering rack bushings are inexpensive. I would recommend an alignment after you do them since your toe can get thrown out of adjustment when unbolting the rack. So if you decide to go with coilovers pretty quickly, you could install the rack bushings at the same time. They are kind of a pita, so I took my car to a shop for the bushings (Clint did too and he and I usually do our own work on the cars). hehe

-Franz

I've got a fix for you. Go buy an Evo!

 

I feel your pain. My wife just bought 335 with the sport suspension and I don't want to drive it as it makes me not like to drive my Leggy.

+1 for what Franz said.

 

I used to think coil-overs were required for a car to handle well but seeing Franz's car in action over the years has changed my mind. Imo a quality strut/spring combo can be just as effective and possibly be more durable/require less maintenance than coil-overs.

 

I think the biggest thing is to get the highest quality dampers you can afford and go from there. Then the second biggest thing is balance. Pick springs, sway bars, etc that are a good match for the dampers and the type of driving you intend to do.

 

The same theory applies to coil-overs too. I've heard good things about the BC Racing c/o's so those might be a good option for you. However if you can afford it you can't go wrong w/ Koni imo.

 

In my experience people who go out and buy super harsh coil-overs without doing some research and thinking it through usually end up unhappy with the results because the car doesn't handle as well as they hoped and it's no fun to drive on the street anymore.

 

Just my 2 cents

 

Clint

 

Edit: I've had a loooooong day and I'm really tired. If I contradicted myself in my post I apologize. Bottom line the BC's are nice c/o's, I really like Koni's, struts/springs can be really good, and please do your homework as suspension can be really tricky and it's expensive if you make a mistake and buy something you won't like. Good night.

edit: for those finding this random given I just said how much i like my eibachs, yes I still like them. I just drove my buddy's evo 8 with SKunk2 coilovers and frame braces tonight is all

Let's not forget that front LSD that the Evo has. It really helps with the understeer problem you have with the open diff.

 

Ever since I added a front LSD my car pulls through tighter corners better, "while on the gas".

 

Can't wait to get back to the states and run the Cali tracks again. Unfotunately I installed a front LSD and was deployed right after. When I get back I'll do a 'what I ran before and after LSD install' at Streets of Willow.

tires, alignment.

Not to sadden you further, but go drive a 2006+ Honda Civic SI. While in no ways an Evo, the difference in "flickability" is night and day.

 

My Legacy is my choice for highway bombing. But honestly, I often take the non-windy route with it. In the SI, I'm telling those corners to straighten up and get a job.

 

Joe

Rawness is right... I test drove an 06 Evo when I was looking at the LGT... and it was WAY too much of a track car for my tastes. If you liked that "ride" then maybe you just need to put super-stiff springs and struts and then get a ridiculously peaky motor.

 

Ok, granted, it's not my taste... I didn't find it flickable, really... but certainly very twitchy.

 

For that matter, if you wanted Evo type behavior - why not an Impreza STI? I imagine that's just as twitchy.

 

Joe: The magic of a lightweight vehicle - I certainly enjoyed my Mazda MX6 in a similar manner... the LGT feels like a boat compared to those types of cars. And I know the MX6 was far heavier (feeling) than the Civics. The LGT is just a different animal.

The quick steering rack in the EVO and better steering feel is a big part of what makes those cars feel so good. They do actually roll quite a bit in stock form.

 

I drive a Mini now...makes my old Forester feel like a school bus.

 

- andrew

Schwinn - While I agree, you'll notice that vehicles like the BMW 335i are heavier and yet far more agile/nimble. (albeit they are growing to be more GT like with each iteration).

IMO a lot of it is the stock dampers on the Legacy...they're junk.

 

- andrew

Agreed... Koni's or Bilsteins would be a big improvement along with steering rack bushings. Also what tires are you running?

 

Imo you aren't ever going to make your LGT feel exactly like an evo but with the right parts and driving style (<< this is important) you can be faster around a road course.

 

Clint

IMO a lot of it is the stock dampers on the Legacy...they're junk.

Agreed, but I had no idea precisely how bad the stock USDM LGT KYBs were until I replaced them w/ Bilsteins.

I've got a fix for you. Go buy an Evo!

 

 

^ This.

Agreed, but I had no idea precisely how bad the stock USDM LGT KYBs were until I replaced them w/ Bilsteins.

 

Did bilsteins make the car handle the way you felt they should've in the first place?

 

My sway bars made the steering feel as direct as it should've been in the first place, and reduced body roll to where it should've been. Nonetheless, the actual "set" of the car in a turn is terrible, it doesn't transition with confidence, it's slow to respond, and it's not connected to the road.

 

I know alot of this is going to be just good tires and a decent alignment. Just wondering how the bilsteins alone made you feel.

 

Joe

Did bilsteins make the car handle the way you felt they should've in the first place?

Actually, I think the Spec B Bilstein set-up w/ a JDM 20 mm RSB would have been perfect for the American market. Bilstein HDs may be a tad firm for some tastes and lack the adjustability of Konis or Tokico HTS. I'm used to a firm ride and like the HDs though.

Did bilsteins make the car handle the way you felt they should've in the first place?

 

My sway bars made the steering feel as direct as it should've been in the first place, and reduced body roll to where it should've been. Nonetheless, the actual "set" of the car in a turn is terrible, it doesn't transition with confidence, it's slow to respond, and it's not connected to the road.

 

I know alot of this is going to be just good tires and a decent alignment. Just wondering how the bilsteins alone made you feel.

 

Joe

 

I run JDM GT Bilsteins (same as USDM Spec B AFAIK) with STI pink springs and Cusco bars front and rear. I have driven a number of cars running stock suspension and some with coilovers. My favorite is an STI running Ground Control Koni coilovers with 550 lb spring rates But I really like the Bilstein/pink combo for daily driving and track days on my Legacy GT. The ride is controlled and firm but not harsh. When the car goes over bumps or speed bumps, the suspension has enough travel to soak up the bump and the struts quickly dissipate the energy. It is not bouncy like the stock setup but at the same time you are not thrown to the roof of the car over harsh bumps. Sure, my car doesn't react as fast as a car running 550 lb spring rates. But, in turns and fast sweepers the car is very predictable and has a lot of grip. The Bilsteins and pinks make the car feel much more connected to the road and imo the best comparison is driving a BMW with a sport package. The struts definitely make the Legacy much more of a driver's car. One of the best mods I did

-Franz

^ This.

 

 

believe me when I tell you, if I could have, I would have.

Schwinn - While I agree, you'll notice that vehicles like the BMW 335i are heavier and yet far more agile/nimble. (albeit they are growing to be more GT like with each iteration).

Well, my original comparison was between a light car and a heavier one, and how the dynamics will (necessarily) change.

 

And, I'll agree, in stock form the LGT was a boat... I certainly didn't like it, and I did feel that the BMW 3-series have much better handling... stock. But like SubyShop said, the Bilsteins/Pinks make SUCH a huge difference - I don't think my LGT rides too differently from a 3-series, either (and yes, I've driven older ones - not the new, crappy ones). Sure, the BMWs are still agile, but as is mentioned here, a good alignment is huge for improving this... I need to get off my butt and get one.

Aw come on guys... you shouldn't be so hard on the LGT. It's designed for a certain type of person and yes it handles like a land yacht in stock trim.. but it has amazing potential.

 

Consider this:

 

Alignment, Steering Rack Bushings, LCA Bushings, Struts, Springs, Sways, End-Links, Sway Mounts/Re-Inforcement Brackets (Stockers are WEAK), Stainless Brake Lines, Pads, Fluid. That's pretty much the total package.

 

Depending on what you buy and who does the work you can do this for around the same price as a high end set of coil-overs. Figure around $2000-2500.

 

Then get yourself a nice set of summer tires (Kumho XS, Dunlop Direzza Star Spec, Bridgestone Potenza RE-11, etc). You will end up with a car that rides quietly and comfortably on the street yet can keep up with and in many cases out-handle stock STI's and Evo's at track/auto-x.

 

Clint

^ I totally agree. Myles' Spec B was set-up quite nice with coilovers, swaybars, good alignment, and a lot of bushings. Still rode very well too.

 

Geometry-wise the Legacy is a notable step up from the GD chassis impreza and basically on par with the EVO. But it has a better center of gravity than a regular EVO thanks to the boxer motor. And a nice interior. And it looks like a grown up's car.

 

It's a good car with the right tuning.

 

- Andrew

Well any Legacy will outperform any Porsche or Lamborghini so the suspension must be good